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Thyaliad

CVs made DDs extinct they said

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I guess we didn't get the memo. :Smile_veryhappy:

shot-20_04.05_17.38_04-0241.thumb.jpg.0ca590aba41ed6f6051f4a4b9f24a4b0.jpg

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But but but... DDs are not playable!

/s

Coincidentally I ran across with a thread with same context on NA. But as usual the sheep are against the notion as usual.

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Especially German DDs, those things are useless.

Too much all rounder, not specific enough to do anything good.

(Please don't show this to WG, they may rage nerfhammer my Germans).

World of Warships Screenshot 2020.04.05 - 03.25.43.88.png

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DD , are not " not playable " but the CV inject a form of in-balance into the game especially when the MM task the teams with only 1 or 2 DD , especially 1 DD in smaller team, then the CV can take a look at where their own DD spawn and basically already had a fair idea where the enemy DD spawn and no matter how fast that DD might be , the planes are faster and can cover areas much faster , so even if it do not spot the DD it basically made an exclusion zone to DD by simply the flying and of course the situation do not improve when team start to fight cause DD are pretty much either area locked to certain particular area or they would be forced out and about unable to do anything , or forced to sit back with the strong AA cover teammates , which then they got complained by their own teams ..

This of course do not take into account also the damage planes can deal to a DD in no time at all , a single run can easily take 1/3 1/2 or even 3/4 off and basically DD got no counter measure, both the spotting and the damages .. smoke is scarce and cool down is too long in between and while any DD likely can dodge a single attack it cannot continuous dodging all so in the end still just offering on the plate to the planes , not usually help by teammates that will not give AA cover

What in the end mean is DD player are put into a situation that they had to work way harder to just stay viable, with lessen possibility to do their part and to excel and put into a game with mechanism that unjustifiably handicap them .. but DD can be play and play to effect , its just that for now its the hardest class to do that and every game mechanism there to made their life miserable while asking them to do things that reward none , its this kind of gross in game in balance and neglect that force DD player to not play

shot-20.01.31_23.11.16-0186.jpg

Edited by Mechfori
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On the flip side, its the team that usually fail the DD in the team these days , seen too many team that just will not push, will not fight, will not deny enemy CAP, will not defend , run as far off and as quick as possible as soon as any enemy fire incoming .. so even if you, playing the DD do the job and do the play you still end up getting a defeat

 

shot-20.03.29_05.29.53-0136.jpg

Edited by Mechfori
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RIght that is about German DDs, ive not used them for long time nor do i plan too. They are good at............. nothing. enough said. Every other DD has a gimmick better then the Germans. Come to think of it Germans ships suck all round. The bias is so real. Even though ive been playing a lot of DD lately, kinda getting better at it. The issue is still CV focus on you and your game is over. End up with a bad team and your fkd, like 90% of the time. Your team wont support you. I would be only DD in cap contesting with 5 enemy and i have 7 ships behind me.......... the stronger flank and they still wont push. They are that scared to move an inch forward or out from behind an island . Palm to the face .

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and how often that is?

wait till you found 4 DD match 4-5 time in row then start posing

 

I don't know about prime time since my play time is off with many other

but I usually have only 1 - 2  DD 90% of the time

last match got 4 DD which is VERY VERY VERY VERY RARE

Edited by PGM991

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Yep 3 or 4 weeks ago when I was playing mid tier, between tier 4 and 7 there were no DDs to speak of at all. This might have been an aberration, not sure, but it went on for a while and I definitely noticed it.

Taught me something I didn't know though. I also always thought the major spotting symbiosis was between DD and BB, given BB players spend most of the game on the baseline screeching "I need intelligence data." But with no DD's at all in  game where I found a real weakness, was trying to play the less stealthy cruisers with no spotting. It can be a hard time depending on the matchmaking. Very hard to camp behind an island if you can't see anything, also hard to open water when playing against more stealthy cruisers like the Brits and IJN. 

It needs someone on your own team playing a stealthy Brit or IJN cruiser to take responsibility... which doesn't always happen.

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Rarer than 4 DD/team matches are matches with no DD at all. I've experienced matches like that. All-out slugfest and little capping/pushing, even though there is no DD.
Playing Yoshino with 20km torps is a blast since I can still torp people :Smile_trollface:

However, I have more troubles playing bad teams more than against CVs and/or radar. Of course, I have my own mistakes to emphasize the bad play, but bad team equals badness.

 

Grinding Skane is a pain in the aft when team mates play like bots/cowards/idiots. I should just stick to CRs. I'm a CR main after all.

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6 hours ago, PGM991 said:

and how often that is?

wait till you found 4 DD match 4-5 time in row then start posing

 

I don't know about prime time since my play time is off with many other

but I usually have only 1 - 2  DD 90% of the time

last match got 4 DD which is VERY VERY VERY VERY RARE

You missed the joke.

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The meta has shifted big time just in the last couple of weeks. T6-10 CVs have once again become near extinct, while 3+ DD / team random battles have become common. It was a very sudden change and the latest patch didn't make any balance changes that would have caused it so far as I can tell.

[sad Friesland noises]

 

Edited by Rina_Pon

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20 hours ago, Sir_Feather said:

But but but... DDs are not playable!

/s

Coincidentally I ran across with a thread with same context on NA. But as usual the sheep are against the notion as usual.

Oh man I saw that thread. IT was hilarious, especially with that one guy with his logical fallacy crap

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52 minutes ago, Ryuuoh_DeltaPlus said:

Oh man I saw that thread. IT was hilarious, especially with that one guy with his logical fallacy crap

I was expecting to see that one guy in that thread.. disappointed because I could not find him. I guess he ran out of diesel:Smile_trollface:

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1 hour ago, Ryuuoh_DeltaPlus said:

Oh man I saw that thread. IT was hilarious, especially with that one guy with his logical fallacy crap

 

15 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

I was expecting to see that one guy in that thread.. disappointed because I could not find him. I guess he ran out of diesel:Smile_trollface:

'One' guy...?

Surely you reference the culte de Flamu..?

There are many more than one or have they started melding minds into 'The One' hivemind?

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49 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

Surely you reference the culte de Flamu..?

I once said "anyone who complains about CVs is just sad" in one of his streams and the chat started to copy-paste my reply, and many started to call me "names". There was someone who don't find CVs such a threat, though. Then I started to compare the current CVs with the rework CVs, and there was someone who agreed with me. It was straight up abominable.

His chat, consisting mostly of EU and NA players, is overwhelmingly against CVs of all kinds. Which of the CCs even play reworked CVs now? Conway, Chrysantos and other community managers rarely play CVs in official streams. 

I don't get it. Power-wise, RTS CVs just reigned. There is nothing in the game that can stop a decent RTS CV player, except a better RTS CV player.

The CV rework only brought the population up while the power of the ship type went down so far, it's like comparing the Roman Empire to Italy in WW2. Even the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine) was much better.

Instead of asking to remove CVs, ask to fix the busted shared vision mechanic between aircrafts and surface ships. Fix radar too. Holy balls.

 

The CV topic divides the playerbase, and if you want to know where I stand, read my freaking signature.

Edited by Paladinum
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1 hour ago, S4pp3R said:

Surely you reference the culte de Flamu..?

Maybe.... It's hard to tell because they share the same way of thinking

 

33 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

I once said "anyone who complains about CVs is just sad" in one of his streams and the chat started to copy-paste my reply, and many started to call me "names". There was someone who don't find CVs such a threat, though. Then I started to compare the current CVs with the rework CVs, and there was someone who agreed with me. It was straight up abominable.

His chat, consisting mostly of EU and NA players, is overwhelmingly against CVs of all kinds. Which of the CCs even play reworked CVs now? Conway, Chrysantos and other community managers rarely play CVs in official streams. 

That's why I have been very skeptical about him since beginning. His rage-infused commentary on his old videos were sort of toxic. Sure he has changed himself, but his followers are still nuts. There are some of his followers in my clan, and I really had to look away whenever they talked about him.

 

33 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

I don't get it. Power-wise, RTS CVs just reigned. There is nothing in the game that can stop a decent RTS CV player, except a better RTS CV player.

I brought it up once to the clan channel. The ones against the reworked CV prefer RTS simply because they were guaranteed to be non existent past the T7. Ironically most of them avoided the game during the last few months of RTS CV because they were simply not willing to face the sudden increase of CV players at that period. And whenever they said more nerf on CVs are needed, they always pointed out at Enterprise as the sample.

Edited by Sir_Feather
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19 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

That's why I have been very skeptical about him since beginning. His rage-infused commentary on his old videos were sort of toxic. Sure he has changed himself, but his followers are still nuts. There are some of his followers in my clan, and I really had to look away whenever they talked about him.

Twitch chat is always like that. There are always the nutjobs who trash everyone who don't share their mindset, sometimes even the streamer.

I respect Flamuu as a WoWS player (because he's far better than me) but surely I don't like him :Smile_trollface: I barely even watch any CC to begin with, so what do I know. 

 

22 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

I brought it up once to the clan channel. The ones against the reworked CV prefer RTS simply because they were guaranteed to be non existent past the T7. Ironically most of them avoided the game during the last few months of RTS CV because they were simply not willing to face the sudden increase of CV players at that period. And whenever they said more nerf on CVs are needed, they always pointed out at Enterprise as the sample.

Don't you know people are weird?

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I thought the SS was years ago until I saw Smolensk, Venezia, Thunderer and Kleber.

so how was the torpedo soup (I never thought of using this term in 2020)

Edited by spixys

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@Sir_FeatherBasically, people that are inept at CVs rail against them forgeting that they are so difficult to manage correctly. WG community managers should walk the talk.

Despite my hate for these stupid reworked cvs, I attempt to play. I play dds and find no issue with adapting to the situation. If I have to bleeping adapt my cv playstyle, then dd players should have to adapt.

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well the issue on hand is not CV, or rather not CV alone .. me, I do see more DD on high tier but no its still more RADAR and CV .. yes i got to see more 2 DD game, even occasionally 3 or even 4 on mid to high tier game, but even more frequent am I seeing 3/4 Radar team, and on top put in a CV or even two ... its the total counter stealth, counter spotting , and exclusion, this kind of MM that made DD play non viable for many. The 3 character DD are suppose to play on for defense is Speed , but these days you can had BB that outrun a DD and let's not talk about Cruisers, planes and enemy shells that flies; Stealth, and no you do not had Stealth when you had so man Radar, Planes, Hydro , everything .. and Maneuverability, but aerial attack, shoot gun long range secondaries, machine gun CL / DD all made this a joke .. 

So in the end DD had been provided without the mean to defend itself and yet asked to go out into the open into the wild into harms way to do theirs often without any teammates willing or caring to actually give fire cover, close support etc etc ..

And yet DD are not given the offensive capacity either ... Torp and Guns that are out ranged, CL had guns that can reload just as quick or quicker ( and hit harder ) .. and at high tier the shells do not do anything to the armored hull of enemies and fire chance is not really enough ( unless you machine gun but not all DD can machine gun )

So in the end its simply a case of asking the DD to go do their part, into all kind of danger while not allowing them the counter play, not given proper defense, not given consistent effective offense, and without even duly rewarding ... is it not a surprise

Edited by Mechfori

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3 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

well the issue on hand is not CV, or rather not CV alone .. me, I do see more DD on high tier but no its still more RADAR and CV .. yes i got to see more 2 DD game, even occasionally 3 or even 4 on mid t high tier game, but even more frequent am I seeing 3/4 Radar team, and on top put in a CV or even two ... its the total counter stealth, counter spotting , and exclusion this kind of MM made that made DD play non viable for many. The 3 character DD are suppose to play on for defense is speed , but these days you can had BB that outrun a DD and let's not talk about Cruisers, planes and enemy shells that flies; Stealth, and no you do not had Stealth when you had so man Radar, Planes, Hydro , everything .. and Maneuverability, but aerial atack, shoot gun long range secondaries, machine gun CL / DD all made this a joke ..

So in the end DD had been provided without the mean to defend itself and yet asked to go out into the open into the wild into harms way to do theirs often without any teammates willing or caring to actually give fire cover, close support etc etc ..

And yet DD are not given the offensive capacity either ... Torp and Guns that are out ranged, CL had guns that can reload just as quick or quicker ( and hit harder ) .. and at high tier the shells do not do anything to the armored hull of enemies and fire chance is not really enough ( unless you machine gun but not all DD can machine gun )

So in the end its simply a case of asking the DD to go do their part, into all kind of danger while not allowing them the counter play, not given proper defense, not given consistent effective offense, and without even duly rewarding ... is it not a surprise

It's a weird situation considering how important DDs are to a team, and yet many mechanics work against DDs. Not to mention certain lines are incredibly effective against DDs, like Pasta CRs.

I'm not saying to remove radar and CVs, but fix their mechanics. For Radar, change it so that DDs will be revealed only on the minimap of the other team. Same goes to aircraft spotting. Shared vision is ridiculous and detrimental to DD play. Spotting mechanics in this game are not... right. 

 

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Unpopular opinion :

WG actually try to make radar and CV useless in ridiculous way

......

the recent DD is the example, blast no smoke but have insane Gun or Torpedo...

French DD basically mini Smolensk that able to spam HE from 18km effectively.

Swedish DD have insane Torpedo, designated for long range spam with insane speed and long range. Also have insane AA to deal with CV

Radar is useless since this ship have no smoke and able to strike from long range

 

Back then in 2017-2018 we complain about smoke meta, Belfast and Kutuzov.... So WG create more radar line, USN split, more premium with radar and the most extreme, radar DD like Pan Asia

We complain about CV damage inconsistent, too many squadron and skill gap problem.... WG fixed it by create CV rework.... 

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@dejiko_nyoAs you said sometime ago, it's called broadening your horizons. The main problem of these dummies are their own ego & reluctance to adapt themselves with the changes.

I started off as a BBaby, then I turn to Crusher (you get my pun) when the Dedede wrecked me left & right. During my term as a Crusher, I replicated the dodgy annoyance I've seen as a BBaby. Then I kept the experience on exposing the DDs with radar, and later used the said experience to counteract the radar during my Dedede days. It is literally a cycle of life. RTS CVs were the only type I failed to grasp completely (F*** the counter-strafing), but I still enjoyed them for Ops. And of course due to my limited capability, I only picked ships that I am comfortable with.

When CVs are in a seriously bad shape (especially the UK ones), I just simply give up and pick the other classes instead of whining about how much credits & time I have invested on them. I flushed over 150k FXP to skip the unbearable grind through Implacable because the detestable MM drove me nuts tbh. And I don't really consider it as a loss when I realize Audacious is pretty much useless enough to end up as a port queen. Sure that waste of FXP could have gone to Alaska or Friesland. But I don't plan to get them at all to begin with. In the end of the day, I play to get what I want, and I spend for what I want.

Yamato? Nah, Musashi is a decent substitude.

Harugumo? Meh Kitakaze is more comfortable.

Zao? Yoshino is fun enough.

Wooster? Trash (Smolensk is way better)

Des Moines? Salem fits my style better.

Any other T10 I don't have? I have tested them on PTS, I will get them only when I want to.

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soviet gun boat dds are totally useless now. 

when we complained cv was hard to play, WG allowed aiming bot to cv 

when we complained long waiting time, they made bots legally.

when fking noobs complained something, WG f k something off

 

 

 

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