is there a way to play this game with aggressive players?

[Rub1c0n]

I am sooo sooo tired of the accepted game play to be hide and seek.  I even see some BBs who actually reverse as their first action.

Fighting game or running game?  I am running out of steam with playing groups who run before fight.  I should probably be banned for what I called them in the last 2 hours.  Time and again they just <removed> run!!!

 

Profanity. Post Edited. User Warned.

~ADM_dude

[JulesVn]

There really should be more xp given for Potential Damage - especially BBs. I find it really frustrating as well. What is even more annoying is when you think you are part of a push and then the Kremlin/GK/Bismarck have turned around and run for the back, leaving you to be focused fired down (2.3 million potential damage - in a Venezia!).

When I'm playing a DD - I've baited the radar, dodged the opposing torps, lost half of my health and take a breath! Why is there no spotting damage? Why is the rest of my team running away along the A file? Will we lose in 5 minutes, or 6?

When I play a BB I make a point of pushing up and taking fire, even in my Conqueror, because I know otherwise no one else will. I tend to die first, but some of the time it shames the rest of the team into actually pushing and shooting, so there's a win to be had. It is still galling to finish bottom on xp though!

[Rub1c0n]

9 minutes ago, JulesVn said:

There really should be more xp given for Potential Damage - especially BBs. I find it really frustrating as well. What is even more annoying is when you think you are part of a push and then the Kremlin/GK/Bismarck have turned around and run for the back, leaving you to be focused fired down (2.3 million potential damage - in a Venezia!).

When I'm playing a DD - I've baited the radar, dodged the opposing torps, lost half of my health and take a breath! Why is there no spotting damage? Why is the rest of my team running away along the A file? Will we lose in 5 minutes, or 6?

When I play a BB I make a point of pushing up and taking fire, even in my Conqueror, because I know otherwise no one else will. I tend to die first, but some of the time it shames the rest of the team into actually pushing and shooting, so there's a win to be had. It is still galling to finish bottom on xp though!

Yeah you pretty much summed up my experience.  "Tally HO!!"  and when the firing starts all I see is 3 enemy fronts and 5 friendly asses.  What I do not get is if they (friends) actually stuck it out 9 out of 10 times we would win.  The damage I get on my own x 3 or 4 would be enough to win easily.  But Noooooo  run and get picked off is the better option because they get 12 minutes of game time.  Dumb

[GoodMorning_MFs]

Well everyone prefers kiting & farming than spotting & tanking, kind of ironic that the game rewards the former while the latter is not rewarded well. I missed the 1V1 brawl now, as I can charge as aggressive as I like with my Bismarck.

If you prefers aggressive plays you can get another friend with you to play Russian BBs, leading the flank with 2 of them is trusty and reliable 

55 minutes ago, Rub1c0n said:

I even see some BBs who actually reverse as their first action.

Upon spawning? Might be a bot then

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

"If he dies, he dies"

Another factor of why the game tends to be passive is the fact that you can do nothing more if you get killed. And getting yourself killed too early on high tier non-premium ships is a guaranteed way to lose credits (which is partly the reason why high tier premium ships become popular).

[Mechfori]

BB who ran off right from start, that's not uncommon, these days I keep seeing Cruisers who willfully stay way way back and run away as far from the front as possible by all means ,, I mean what's the use of a 10/12KM Radar when they put themselves 15 / 18 KM away from the other end and sit and stay there .. the worst is the inability and unwillingness to actually fight, BB who do not push and do not tank and keep commanding others to go and fight the battle ( so they can sit back and farm ) ... worse breed worse, when such appear, inevitably other who are willing to fight and push will had to reel back, or flatly ignore and neglect the flank cause the players know there is no hope of anything from a team, a group who would not team play, would not push, would not fight, and in most cases would not even defend.

[Thyaliad]

Well the game rewards are heavily skewed towards doing damage, and you can't do damage if you are dead so everybody camps.

One issue I have is supportive actions like tanking or capping don't really pay well by themselves. Most of the time they function as multipliers - you need to do damage of your own too. 

It is very obvious when I have a low-damage DD game. I can get 3 solo caps, do a bunch of spotting and stall a whole enemy push with the threat my torps, but as long as the torps don't hit anything I am not getting paid.

But tbh this is just one reason why the meta is so campy. Other reasons include spotting and concealment mechanics (people don't like getting attacked by what they can't see) or player skill and map awareness (players often don't know when they can actually push or when they should run so they just default to playing safe and camping).

The list goes on.

 

[Gummiheng]

Clan brawl, is the place you can afford to play aggresive  😄 

But of course, a working,interactive clan is one of the component you need 

[NHLWXY]

well, i think the problem is , damage is related to income, the more your damage, the more sliver coins you get, and, many people just want to get money, they dont care the result of the battle, win or lost, no matter, they will still get lots of money

but those who cares the battle, they want to win, or they want to get more exp for loser get much less exp after the battle, so, they will hope a better team work

so , i think , yes it is good to motivate those who plays a teamwork, but it will be too complex to change the reward mechanism.

a better easy way is, just to punish the losers on the sliver income. If u lose, you will get much less silver income just like what happens to exp, 

I think that would also encourage people to form a team into the battle, not just a singe man..

 

and there is another problem, the rank match mechanism

I dont know whether any body notice that,  it is very possible in a battle

that one side are freshmen less than 100 battle who just buy a tier9 ship without game exprience

and the other side  full of big star players, and veterans who survive thousand battles...

It is very likely the strong side push hard to force the weak side retreat and call break arrows..

 

 

[NHLWXY]

and , i just remember the DD events last year, Rogue Wave?

That would be a good mode. If you turn back using your bottom to face the battle...

BOOM! you are fired!

I think WG should consider keeping that mode as another kind random battle, 7V7 or 9V9? or move the fire circle mechanism into normal maps

[EULA_violator]

6 hours ago, Rub1c0n said:

I am sooo sooo tired of the accepted game play to be hide and seek.  I even see some BBs who actually reverse as their first action.

Fighting game or running game?  I am running out of steam with playing groups who run before fight.  I should probably be banned for what I called them in the last 2 hours.  Time and again they just fucking run!!!

 

you may not like it, but kiting is the most meta way to play this game since it's inception, if you REALLY want to play aggressively, abuse islands or concealment to get close to a isolated target and kill it before you get killed, it's literally the only way

[NHLWXY]

3 minutes ago, CV_NMSL said:

you may not like it, but kiting is the most meta way to play this game since it's inception, if you REALLY want to play aggressively, abuse islands or concealment to get close to a isolated target and kill it before you get killed, it's literally the only way

but mostly, you will be bombed to death or assassinated by dd's trops on the way... or your target get killed by the same way before you can open fire...

and don't forget Smolensk, normal they will sit amid smokes and BBQ those loners at first time

[EULA_violator]

2 minutes ago, NHLWXY said:

but mostly, you will be bombed to death or assassinated by dd's trops on the way... or your target get killed by the same way before you can open fire...

and don't forget Smolensk, normal they will sit amid smokes and BBQ those loners at first time

i do it all the time, it works if you have half a brain and map awareness, ofc there are situations where it's suicide to push up but as long as you know when and where you can push a mid-late game push works just as well

[NHLWXY]

1 minute ago, CV_NMSL said:

i do it all the time, it works if you have half a brain and map awareness

not sure which server you are..but in Asian server, that hardly works...

Everyone are playing the cat-mouse game..

and there are lots of bots, they will turn back and bottom-facing you, or just go border or corner 

some times i can do that by sailing a dd, such as Bentham, very caution play...

but in asian  server, almost no one play dd any more

when waiting for a match, you will see 

10+ Carries, 50-80 BB,  100+ CA/CL, less than 10 dd

since every avoid CQB, dd is useless, you are hardly to get close into trops range  before the radar/CV  discover you.

In asian, too many sliver farmers, they are only interest in BB/CA  to deal damage and earn money 

 and they are good at running away, not give you any CQB chance, especially the bots 

[EULA_violator]

14 minutes ago, NHLWXY said:

not sure which server you are..but in Asian server, that hardly works...

the forums literally shows I have 20k games here, and you're asking if I play on Asia?

 

15 minutes ago, NHLWXY said:

Everyone are playing the cat-mouse game..

just outplay them

 

15 minutes ago, NHLWXY said:

and there are lots of bots, they will turn back and bottom-facing you, or just go border or corner 

that's not how bots work, you are just playing against players worse than bots

[PGM991]

you can't be aggressive in hightier or you'll die fast... really really fast.

but at tier 5, as long as not get uptier to tier 7, IMO is tier that you can go crazy all you want in BB

me and my kongo series go wild all the time.

CV attack power not too high, HE spammer not as toxic as hightier, their gun range is also not overly long so you can counter them fairly, torpedo is short range that as long as you remain vigilance it not pose much of a treat, midtier map is not too large so you can get around to get into action pretty fast

and last, tier 5 is safe tier. no matter how you screw up, your credit never go minus.

[NHLWXY]

11 minutes ago, CV_NMSL said:

the forums literally shows I have 20k games here, and you're asking if I play on Asia?

 

just outplay them

 

that's not how bots work, you are just playing against players worse than bots

,,,,

just notice your ID nmsl....

well, have to say that maybe i should play more

but i still have a feeling that asian server is getting worse in recent months..

I joined wows last year, april or may, I feel the aisan server changed a lot since  dec last year 

there are lots of players who u can see that they don't know what they are doing..

if you ask them in channel, they just play innocent  .. 

[TsunamiShenShi]

most of PEOPLE who is hide and seek are: 50% bot, 25% noobs, 15% don't know what tactic to use, 10% are knowing what to do.

I can sure no one can stop an attacking group with tactic, and i see alot from the losing side when all just turn tail and run then die one by one by the rolling ball of attacking fire power ( when focust fired, u die for sure), SOME CAN take advantage of defending and deal a great damage but their battle will lose event when they are out number at last because they lost all base and the attacking team got more point.

and many PEOPLE don;t know how is yolo and how is attacking so they just back off and shoot, run when smell danger but they don'y know and don't care when they turn tail and run the team mate get back stapped from thier direction, and ofcouse in this game those acting like that got many exp and credit because dame deal got more exp than spotting dame or dame blocked ... and they just play for farm credit and exp, they don't care other people.

[Mechfori]

3 hours ago, TsunamiShenShi said:

.. ... and they just play for farm credit and exp, they don't care other people.

and more to that, too many big guns players are in the mentality that staying back, sitting sniping is all that OK and that everyone else should service them , scout for them go spot, go screen the flank etc etc ... and without them actually providing the proper UP FRONT tanking, fire cover, close support, AA , this is one major divide between players who can and always will only stay far back, sit, snipe and fram and those who would want to push, and force enemy ( and in most cases needed to since they do not had the range to do anything at something like 18/20KM+ )

Argument between DD / Cl players against BB/CA/CB players regarding is so common

and as a DD main , all I can say is - if these guns are not willing to put themselves in range of enemy guns to force a fight, then they do not had any right to ask others to ; if any of these guns wanting always to stay hidden and behind rocks, then they should not expect others not to ; if they are not willing to go into harm's way to fight a battle, then they had no rights to demand others to either ...

[SpearF1sher]

The reason for what you are talking about are complex. Yes there are campers people due to inexperience of playing the game, new stock ship with low point captain. Trying to work out what the ship is capable of and its shortfalls, and finding out the hard way. Hence next game play maybe more conservative.

Awareness ships capabilities and limitations

Another issue are people who ask for an aggressive push and maybe not realising/appreciating the other ships ability. Example being asked to push in a light cruiser to support a bb against 2 bbs in open water. Being aware some ships are designed/work best in camping situation DM/Wors etc high arcs for going over the island with 10k radar. 

Minimap and situational awareness

Some people appear not to realise how useful the minimap can be. Your team pushing and winning cap maybe 4 green and only 1 red left a great time to assess, do all need to chase or can you still cover fire but angle ship to next objective. Unfortunately there are times when people get to focused on 'winning' cap destroying ships they get distracted from the objective of the game with kill/chase the last ship/s and end up way out of position.

BBs and HE spamming

German bbs are tanky AF designed for CQC with secondary builds etc but with the mechanics of the game today they get HE spammed and burned down (not pleasant and costly if in high tier so why bother). This is not helped when 'we' are given in game objectives like 'set x amount of fires' not only by cruisers but bbs also.

Uncertainty/lack of confidence of team mates

I'm sure we have all experienced the 'lets push !' or 'help' so we do as asked only to find the other ship/s have turned gone dark and left you there to get focused down. This can create scepticism next time you play you asked to assist 'oh remember last time mmm maybe ill wait a little see if others will help. 
This can then lead to ' where was the help/noobs/ campers etc' in the chat

Paper/Rock /Scissors

Each ship is a counter or other ship/s. This requires extensive knowledge of other ships. Not everyone wants to have to do this or has has time or has the ability to. As Flamu has stated many times 'the only people you can rely on in this game is yourself' I would guess many experienced players would feel the same, so is it any wonder that people  do play for themselves?

This is not say that when you play 'those ' games when everyone is playing as a team without any chat.( you can see ships going to their strength areas) but not only that the other team are doing it also and its a battle royale. win or lose great game and the end of game stats show mid high 2000 base xp for a number of the winning team and losing team have a number of players also in the high 1000 low 2000xp.

What I have stated here I have definitely been/are guilty of but have learnt over time the lessons to be learnt. I know this may sound a bit preachy but hey while I'm here I'll leave you with this.

'Sometimes when you lose its not because your team were noobs/useless it was because the other team were just better.' The Mighty Jingles

[Grygus_Triss]

8 hours ago, CV_NMSL said:

that's not how bots work, you are just playing against players worse than bots

Yeah. Bots take 5 minutes to load, then yolo into the enemy.

[Grygus_Triss]

9 hours ago, CV_NMSL said:

you may not like it, but kiting is the most meta way to play this game since it's inception, if you REALLY want to play aggressively, abuse islands or concealment to get close to a isolated target and kill it before you get killed, it's literally the only way

Kiting works well when defending/ slowing enemy’s advance. The problem I find is when, early game, BOTH flanks kite away, giving enemy control of all the caps. If you’re lucky, they’ll overextend and you can kill them, but often they will just take cover in the islands around the caps and let the points rack up.

Ideally, one flank pushes, one flank kites, and the win goes to the team who is more effectively able to do it.

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

10 hours ago, NHLWXY said:

,,,,

just notice your ID nmsl....

well, have to say that maybe i should play more

but i still have a feeling that asian server is getting worse in recent months..

I joined wows last year, april or may, I feel the aisan server changed a lot since  dec last year 

there are lots of players who u can see that they don't know what they are doing..

if you ask them in channel, they just play innocent  .. 

Sorry but the whole game becomes worse on any servers. 2 reasons that explain this;

1. Veteran players have had enough with WG's questionable moves throughout 2019, the PR fiasco was the final straw.
2. Many new players registered into the game at the same period. However the main problem for these guys are as someone said above; WG allows them to purchase any high tier premium ships as soon as they sign up into the game.

 

We have the passive kiting meta & bot users, NA has the broadside sellouts & Anti-CV whiners, CIS has the toaster-PC users, and no idea about EU other than bunch of Flamuu worshippers.

 

And believe me, you don't want to see that tomato on the enemy team. He knows a lot.

[RalphTheTheatreCat]

18 hours ago, Rub1c0n said:

Fighting game or running game? 

You literally cant achieve anything by dying early and unless there  is a seismic change in the way the game rewards aggression or punishes passive play then the way you win is keep the guns firing.  Kiting or island hugging works and will continue to work even though it is frustrating at times.

[dejiko_nyo]

4 hours ago, cerebus_fighter said:

Paper/Rock /Scissors

Each ship is a counter or other ship/s. This requires extensive knowledge of other ships.

Might I remind everybody that this system now is completely broken given the role creep that has entered into the classes. We have dds that are cruisers, cruisers that are dds. BBs that are cruisers and cruisers that are bb. And lets not forget, CVs that are somehow equipped to be good against dds (their natural enemies).