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WorldConqueror86

Japanese destroyers past tier 4

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Beta Tester
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1,057 battles

Do many of you have much success with them? I'm struggling to ever get a torp hit now that everyone expects them. Even battleships have no problems dodging them, even when I close to 5km to launch them. I usually launch the first lot along the suggested course, then the rest at where I think he'll be when he maneuvers. Anyone have any tips to make me more effective, since torps are basically the only thing Japanese destroyers have going for them.

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Beta Tester
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You don't pray you hit. You pray that the person is bad and can't dodge. That's all there is to it now, now that the torpedo detection range was increased from 10% to 40%.

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Beta Tester
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Seems about right. Just finished a game in the tier 5 one and got 14 torp hits for 130k damage on 2 battleships and 2 St. Louis, but they didn't try to dodge at all. I was maybe using island cover a bit more effectively but not so much to make that kind of difference. 

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Super Tester
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I rarely touch my Mutsuki now because of that detection range D: (hehe touch) I'm now opting for USN DD's for the guns rather than the torps.. and like what Umidoori said, pray that your opponent is bad at dodging so that you can hit them, or pray that the secondary gun batteries won't hit you while you launch your torpedoes at point blank range (around 3km?) I guess that's the only good advice I can give to you~

 

There's that camping on your smoke strategy too

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Beta Tester
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I rarely touch my Mutsuki now because of that detection range D: (hehe touch) I'm now opting for USN DD's for the guns rather than the torps.. and like what Umidoori said, pray that your opponent is bad at dodging so that you can hit them, or pray that the secondary gun batteries won't hit you while you launch your torpedoes at point blank range (around 3km?) I guess that's the only good advice I can give to you~

 

There's that camping on your smoke strategy too

 

There are people who say that Mutsuki and the Badtsuharu are there for you to get used to high tier DDs. They are kind of like training ships, if you put it that way. You can play them well, you can play the Fubuki, Kagerou and the Shimakaze. 

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Beta Tester
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Yeah, the key is surprise. If you get spotted - or drop a smoke cloud - many players (of mid and high tiers) will automatically be on the lookout for incoming torpedos from that direction.

 

If you can avoid planes and enemy Destroyers, though, you can cruise around beyond detection range and catch players complete unawares. Even good players can be caught off guard by surprise torpedoes.

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Beta Tester
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And the fact that the fastest torps can go is about 68 knots, and the most any Japanese destroyer carries is 12. So you can't rely on good torp speed to get hits, nor can you launch so many that no matter where he turns he'll hit at least one. Maybe I just need more practice at finding that ideal range where I'm not spotted.

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Beta Tester
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In defense of the Mutsuki, I actually think it's a pretty good destroyer.  It's an odd destroyer, but pretty good.  I know this is contrary to what people think.

 

To begin with, I do think the torpedo reload time is excessive, I think around 80s would be good.

 

I personally think WG should remove the Mutsuki 1926 version and start you right off at Mutsuki 1939; this will at least give you 10km torps to start with.  If they won't, the trick will be to buy the Mutsuki then earn free experience in the Minekaze until you can afford the Mutsuki 1939 upgrade before even getting in it.

 

The reason why I think the Mutsuki is pretty good is that Mutsuki 1942 upgrade and the improved gun.  It turns the Mutsuki into a "fighter" destroyer that can actually "dogfight" with their USN counterparts.  That thing trains at a dizzying speed of 18s to do a 180.  For the IJN in WoWS, that's so fast it spins like a helicopter blade.  While it's still inferior to a USN destroyer (Tier VI Farragut: 12s 180, 15 rnds/min, 2370 daamge with AP vs. Tier VI Mutsuki: 18s 180, 10.9 rnds/min, 2260 damage with AP), it is in the same neighborhood.

 

I know people are going to tell me, "You shouldn't be shooting your cannons in a IJN destroyer" but circumstances mean I can't always avoid gunfights in good conscience, such as when I'm near my team's cap when the enemy destroyers rush in. 

 

In a dogfight, you're contesting or defending a cap, so you're in detection range and there's a lot of "dancing" around to find a good position to fire torpedoes at 2-4km range (interestingly I find that USN DD players rarely try and use torpedoes against other DDs and just rely on guns).  In past IJN DDs, we take the worse of this, as it requires very good handling skills, and frankly, a not-very-good opponent to get shots in during a "dogfight" if you're in an IJN DD.  USN DDs with their superior rate of fire, damage, and turret turn times mean they're scoring lots of hits.  In the Mutsuki with the 1942 gun, IJN turrets can effectively keep up with USN turrets during practical gameplay (6s less is a disadvantage, but if you're used to maneuvering your hull to line up shots, it'll seem like paradise).  Because you only have two guns, your damage is awful, but that's no different than in the past with IJN DDs - the point is to try and get some crits and knock out their rudder or engine twice in a row then let the torps go.  It's difficult to get used to if you're used to playing IJN DDs with slow guns, but if you play USN DDs you'll feel right at home.  The rest of the time you can play torpedo ninja - a slow torpedo ninja but still.

 

On the other hand, the Hatsuharu is truly worthless.  After the Mutsuki, it goes back to 30s turret turning times and it has the same long reload times as the Mutsuki's torpedoes.  It does not belong at Tier VII right now, in fact I don't think it belongs in the game at all in its current form.  Even at Tier VI it would be a terrible ship with its current stats.  Given it is a development of the Fubuki, it should have powered turret traverse and real Fubukis did not have the abysmal traverse times they do they in WoWS. 

 

edit: whoops, mutsuki and farragut tier is wrong.

Edited by nyankochan

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Beta Tester
39 posts
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In defense of IJN DD's, they have a nice zone to launch torps at you just have to know it.

 

Had a ripper of a game in my Minekaze (T5) earlier today, something like 14 torpedo hits and I was enough of a nuisance that I had a lot of incoming fire. But I know the magic numbers. 1) My detection range is 5.9kms on ocean, 3.1 from the air. 2) My torps have a range of 7kms, or 10kms. Prefer the 7's, they're faster so higher chance to hit. 3) I know when to play to my strengths and when to run and hide. Just gotta keep the numbers in mind when picking my engagements.

 

Still learning USN DD's on the side, love the guns, hate the torps. But I need to grind the line out till at least T9, I want my Fletcher!

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Beta Tester
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Just past tier IV, you get to Tier-V, the Yourkaze (i've sold Mine), which is probably the best destroyer in-game right now. It's only after that that things get any harder.

 

Anyhow, after playing Mutsuki and Hatsuharu with what i'd call considerable success, what i've learned is to respect what is called as the 'safe zone' of each destroyer. This 'safe zone' is the region between the maximum range of your torpedoes and the range at which your boat will be spotted by the enemy. Generally, this region is between 2 to 2.5km wide, requiring you to remain atleast 7.5 to 8km away from your target.

Ideally by sticking to this 'safe zone', you should be in and out without the enemy even knowing you were there. Most people are tunnel-visioned, so take advantage of distractions created by your heavier allies. Islands and the presence of other enemy ships near your target will limit the target's options for evasion.

 

Knowing where to shoot your torpedoes is something that takes quite awhile to learn, and requires you to quickly determine the target's heading and speed and anticipate how he may change these, while considering the limitations created by the terrain around you.

 

I reckon that a hundred days of torpedo practice should be a decent enough start for anyone.

 

with my experience in 0.3.0

torps can never hit the target if you launch it at a distance longer than the torpedo detecting range(unless the target doesn't know how to dodge)

launching in the 'safe zone' as you say,CANNOT hit the target since they'll be spotted far far away,sometimes they eventually get spotted at the moment they are launched(by planes)

most of the IJN DD can launch 2 set of 3-4 torpedo

if you launch 2 wide spread,you can cover the positions the target may run into,but they can easily dodge it by facing your poor torps with his back or front

how about 2 narrow?they can simply turn or run ahead

1 wide and 1 narrow?can neither cover or shorten the gap between torps

I'm not sure if they get better in 0.3.1

Yeah, the key is surprise. If you get spotted - or drop a smoke cloud - many players (of mid and high tiers) will automatically be on the lookout for incoming torpedos from that direction.

 

If you can avoid planes and enemy Destroyers, though, you can cruise around beyond detection range and catch players complete unawares. Even good players can be caught off guard by surprise torpedoes.

as I see,Kongo and Fuso usually can dodge surprise torpedo

Nagato, usually eat 1 of the 6 torp, but I have to wait around 100s to reload

surprise torpedo doesn't work very well as the torps are spotted far away, they can't really make a surprise to the enemy

not including the hateful CV whose fighters are always pointed toward you

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