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AxEyBoI

T10 Noobs or Bots

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Im in a Lennin, typically in a T10 game, i get killed cos of a weak flank with only 4 ships. So i entertain myself watching the other flank thinking we should have this with the superior numbers but boy am i wrong i watch a Sov Soy T9 BB stops in between 3 of our ships facing bow to the N Carolina and sides exposed to a Smolensk and Donskoi.......... all 10k out. I watched both the Smol and Donsk fire 11 full salvos and only 2 hit. Didnt make sense as the Sov was not moving they kept leading and over shooting his position by hundreds of meters, he only had 3/4 health. Both the Cruisers only had about 800 battles each. Ive never seen misses on a stationary target from 10k................ im baffled.......................anyone else see this, cos maybe u can be off here and there but for both ships at that range to miss so many times on a non moving target does not make sense.

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Don't rely on those T10 brainless

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Maybe bots, maybe not.

Seriously I've had some really sad wins and losses lately, it's getting common to see a team get herded into a corner of the map...

Most of the time it is either a DD advantage, a positioning issue, or both...

Positioning is always key, so many radar cruisers out there at the moment don't know how to position for it (PRs are a prime culprit), a low DD population means they REALLY need to know how to do that because DDs often don't have other DDs to contend with on a flank...

Compound this with BBs that can't move forward of 17km to enemy (thanks HE spammers - you know who you are) and also don't know how to position with terrain or concealment and it's a nightmare...

I'm not having a go at everyone, sometimes the map or the team is unavoidable... But yeah, it's pretty common to see problems atm and not all of it can be dismissed as 'bots'.

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I am going to say: "I told you so" and "I saw this coming" especially with the way ship balancing is done. It was only time when players abused and took advantage of it. Some ships are just high rewards, no risk. The only thing I would agree done right in the last 12 months is HIV nerf. It was an example of high reward, no risk ship. 

But 1 guess to whether wg will fix this completely screwed up mess of their own making...

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The games following are no better. Lemming train, no one going to cap even the DDs and CV just out to get there own damage and not help the team. The constant loses not through enemy accuracy or strategy but your teams stupidity and lack of simple common sense. Its like playing with a bunch of 5 year olds, seriously i know some that are way more smarter and intelligent. Like 2 of yous capping and 10secs to go he leaves the cap.......... like wtf or a CV going for a BB with full health then killing a DD or CA thats got less then 10% health and capping.......... Are 90% of players brain dead. These are not mistakes being made its like deliberate sabotage. Another e.g is when enemy CV goes after your DD and kills it, but your 1 lets the DD run freely and he spots and torps and does some much damage...... and you ask CV to do something but he just ignores. This kind of game breaking stuff cos of 1 player....................

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Remember communication is not possible when diviating by more than 30 points. And no common average for human is below 100. If you are above it , you likely are above alot of people. Same deal here. When you are too good , everyone around you looks like idiots.

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8 hours ago, AxEyBoI said:

The games following are no better. Lemming train, no one going to cap even the DDs and CV just out to get there own damage and not help the team. The constant loses not through enemy accuracy or strategy but your teams stupidity and lack of simple common sense. Its like playing with a bunch of 5 year olds, seriously i know some that are way more smarter and intelligent. Like 2 of yous capping and 10secs to go he leaves the cap.......... like wtf or a CV going for a BB with full health then killing a DD or CA thats got less then 10% health and capping.......... Are 90% of players brain dead. These are not mistakes being made its like deliberate sabotage. Another e.g is when enemy CV goes after your DD and kills it, but your 1 lets the DD run freely and he spots and torps and does some much damage...... and you ask CV to do something but he just ignores. This kind of game breaking stuff cos of 1 player....................

Sounds like you need to take a break for a few months...

Or at least reevaluate your approach.

All games have noobs, all games have potatoes and yeah, it's really noticeable at the moment.

The only thing you can control is yourself, so be the best you can be and don't get yourself down...

Here's the unpopular opinion as to why games are lop-sided atm...

A good CV player counters DDs...

DDs have more influence on the battle than any other class, particularly the more unorganised a team is or the more potato...

When both teams have many DDs, the skill disparity is less noticeable, when both teams only have one --- wow.

I'm not saying nerf DDs but we definitely need more people playing them.

I find it amusing that the CVs get the hate for that... But it stands to reason, it's basic target priority.

Problem for CVs, there's more easy XP available on other targets... So it's a fine line of balancing winning with farming, hate the game not the player...

Edited by S4pp3R
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Alpha Tester
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I chose not to trust my team mates, especially in T10 battles.

It's kinda sad, but that's the nature of the game now.

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Nerfing DD .. that must be the cruel joke , right .. at these top tier all class of ship, CV. BB, CA, CL, CB are allow and be fashioned mean to exploit and excel in performing their own, able to deal damage ( the one thing that the game ever care to care for and rward ) in consistent, efficient, effective and reliable fashion, BUT ... no, not for DD, DD are not allow that and seems like each and every new patch more ( so call ) balancing to pacify the big guns but yet nerf the DD ability yet more

its more like the game need to had DD buffed, and not just by small measure but by a large account on almost all tier and all type of DD

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9 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

I find it amusing that the CVs get the hate for that... But it stands to reason, it's basic target priority.

Even without CVs, they will hate on radar, and possibly hydro (although it's been a long while someone complains about hydro).

The main problem with this particular kind of DD player is their inability to deal with the challenges that DD may offer. This kind of player expects "Best stealth = not getting shot" playstyle. But when the reality turns out to disappoint them, they will react as they have been doing for the last 13 months.

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18 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

its more like the game need to had DD buffed, and not just by small measure but by a large account on almost all tier and all type of DD

The problem is DDs have to be buffed in a way that only helps weaker players but not the skilled ones.

DDs are already the most influential ship class in the game, even more so in non-CV matches.

The issue is not that DDs are weak, but rather the skill gap between the good DD players and the bad is too wide. And a wide skill gap is something we do not want on a ship class with low population but high influence, hence the CV rework.

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20 hours ago, AxEyBoI said:

Ive never seen misses on a stationary target from 10k

I have, many times.

 

10 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

I'm not saying nerf DDs but we definitely need more people playing them.

No, definitely don't nerf DD's. After the carrier rework the "old tricks" for DD's no longer work and many people stopped playing DD's.

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So WG solution is to release more DD, a dying class that has no reason to be in the game anymore. So they can take all your resources for a ship you wont use.  CV can do everything a DD can do from a distance. When subs drop in how is the ship and sub ratio per team going to work. 5 subs per team, 2 CV,  3 CA and 2BB

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7 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

The problem is DDs have to be buffed in a way that only helps weaker players but not the skilled ones.

DDs are already the most influential ship class in the game, even more so in non-CV matches.

The issue is not that DDs are weak, but rather the skill gap between the good DD players and the bad is too wide. And a wide skill gap is something we do not want on a ship class with low population but high influence, hence the CV rework.

No DD are not weak but they are specified to NOT WORK .. that's the issue and the imposed skill gap ... most of them their spec are still specified as the same as they were before Radar, before more Radar, longer reach Radar, deluge of fast BB / Cruiser that can easily outrun a DD ( care to try Amalfi, with speed flag it can outrun plenty of T6/78/9/10 DD even with speed boost on , similar for quite some ) .... smoke charge and numbers balanced for time visual and engagement well and reasonably within their gun / torpedo engaging range ..

Its this counter steal, ranging out, strip of advantage of speed, and nullifying maneuver advantage that made DD skill gap, so those should be given back for DD player ( and not just good DD player )  to be ale to play just as for all class that allow player and not just good player to play ... and buffing them do not mean those GUN's meme of keep asking for DPM, DPS etc etc ... 

For a start, Torpedo Range need to be buffed to reflect the ranged out , so with even that small damage and speed, the Euro DD still need the range , why should not the others .. Kagero & Akatsuki should really had the 12KM torp , all IJN Torp sould had their detection significantly brought down to balance against the others and all the high tier DD should had at least their torp range buff both by speed, and range by a margin. Likewise if the game do not just want so many HE Spamming then the DD and Cl must be allowed to close their range and actually able to use not just HE and that typically mean we need nerf to the Radar , just too may Radar, too often a Radar charge can be had and too long a reach ..

if you exclude the light force with a mean that had no countering , limit , you either need to buff the other side's ability to defend significantly ( which the mechanism do not so ) or their measure to extract themselves significantly and that's what the game try to do with French DD ( speed ) but WG is doing it wrong, ( and not all DD had the French speed , try RN DD or better Akizuki ). Speed used must be accompanied with reasonable amount of Stealth and Maneuverability and WG simply fail on that ... I can go on and on , specific and down to very detail ... but just saying reducing the skill gap call for nothing  , especially not for DD since DD in general are weak by default in its damage dealing , poor in its HP and Armor , and all it work for is Stealth, Speed, Maneuverability, and ability to get in and assault , and extract with reasonable ease, and all that are not provided now ... or rather taken away by so many new ships, new features, new elevated performance on the CL, CA, Super Cruiser, BB, and no less CV .. so if the game is not going to nerf all the other class ability to balance out, the its simply a case of having to BUFF the DD to give back what they play on .. its just that simple .. unless someone had better suggestion 

Edited by Mechfori

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2 hours ago, AxEyBoI said:

So WG solution is to release more DD, a dying class that has no reason to be in the game anymore. So they can take all your resources for a ship you wont use.  CV can do everything a DD can do from a distance. When subs drop in how is the ship and sub ratio per team going to work. 5 subs per team, 2 CV,  3 CA and 2BB

So so true .. the whole fiasco really start when WG listen only listen to big guns and nerf the class fist as in the artificial IJN Torpedo nerf .. and fail to up the class as the game moves on and keep introducing yet more powerful feature and performance with every new ships , you do not need to wait for sub, right now, just go into any T9 / T10 game, even T8 game , how many BB are there , how many Radar / Super Cruiser are there .... one time I was in my Gearing and I look at the roster 12 vs 12 I was like .. What the ... !!!!! the game can pitch a MM tha give 7 BB per tea, 3 Super Cruiser per side ( and all but one had Radar ), 1 very pitiful CA ( enemy team's got Radar , my team got a Zao ) and 1 very poor DD left ( me and the enemy's Shimkaze ).. needless to say the game is like .. well ... stationary batteries firing at each others .. and seriously such is pretty much becoming the norm right now

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5 hours ago, TsunamiShenShi said:

i never want to play at tier 8 to 10, full of bot and wallet warriors

Wallet Warrior , if play long enough, still can advance , but its bots and Camper, Farmer, those that really kills it

Edited by Mechfori

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33 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

Wallet Warrior , if play long enough, still can advance , but its bots and Camper, Farmer, those that really kills it

Right, bot is the worst, if it's a wallet warriors i can make them a meat shield in bad situation and they can be come some thing " usefull ". Bots, campers is the same, bot don't do any thing but hiding and KS, camper some time can do a little more because they can actually shoot when get surgrounded but will die fast by focust fire. "farmer" i don't know them, Actually i play a a match to win an do anything to win, cuz win make you more benefit than lose ( but in da good fight, event lose u still can get a lot of exp and credit than a normal fast win )  

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I am a fairly new player with a pretty poor win rate. Some of my poor results are due to potato plays by me, and over the course of many matches the poor scoring must be due to my skill level at least in some part.

That said, even I notice how bad a lot of the play is. The vast majority of my defeats are completely outside my control. I play all kinds of ships and probably get my best results recently with CVs and DDs.

Playing as a CV the games where green win are where people shoot at the DDs I spot and generally push up and cap. The games I lose are where our DD rushes the cap on the other side of the map from my CV, smokes up, and then eats torps while he is typing a complaint about the lack of air support. 2 minutes later the flank has folded faster than I can move my CV out of the way (it takes the Audacious half a match to turn and get up to speed). The DD reports me for not saving him and the rest of the team report me for eating the Kremlin or Yamato they just let through. The ratio seems to be 30:70. My only Kraken came in a Ranked 8 vs 8 match which we still lost. (I had a couple of minutes to take down a full health Smolensk for the win - got him to 5k hp - close but no cigar).

I actually get decent results when I play DDs (Kagero and recently got the Benson). Switch off AA, focus on spotting, keep an eye on enemy planes and friendly AA cruisers - usually a decent match ensues. I rarely fire my guns, and am much better at eating torps than hitting with them, but even so get plenty of XP at the end of the match. Occasionally the enemy CV will get lucky and nail me with rockets but it doesn't happen to me nearly as often as it happens to DDs on my team when I am playing other classes.

I am currently playing the Puerto Rico (2 premium boosters and the grind - actually probably would have got it with just the one) as I am doing the Halsey campaign and it is my only high level US Cruiser. I have developed a tactic of charging forward until detected, immediately turning round to kite as the targeting indicator hits 5+. This gives the rest of the team free rein to cap and shoot all the reds that have made themselves visible. When it works it really works, and I pick up Dreadnaught and Fireproof badges for good measure. However, most of the time the DD just hides behind an island outside the cap circle and the BBs all cluster as far back as possible. At least one of the cruisers presents its broadside in open water and gets deleted. The red team have got all 3 caps before I have even had time to put the fires out and defeat follows in 5 minutes - I will have typically done about 15k damage, tanked 2 million potential, and got about 300xp for my troubles.

I don't think there is a real issue with overpowered ships. The Kremlin is a target even I can't miss, and one of my favourite WoWs experiences is blatting a surprised Smolensk with 10+ pens from my Minotaur. The problem is that the xp system rewards selfish play. We do need more DD players, but they need to be incentivized to spot and cap more, rather than thinking they aren't successful unless they're farming damage. Likewise BBs need to be rewarded for tanking. At the moment the player who pushes in angling bow forward and managing his damage control, gets a lot less xp than the guy shooting HE broadsides from the back of the map. (This is coming from a guy whose only T10 BB is the Conqueror btw - I find myself tanking with that more than the GK players I encounter). Carriers at T10 are exactly where they should be imho. One on each side per game and easily neutralized by good cruiser positioning. T4 and T6 are a mess, but only because MM allows 2 or 3 on each team, which I find ridiculous even when I'm playing a CV.

 

TLDR version. Game balance is not too bad, but good team play needs more XP rewards and damage farming less. DDs are the most important class in any battle, but DD players need to deal with the various spotting mechanics much better, and stop whinging about CVs. My 30% win rate isn't because I'm a potato - honest!

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