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smoothsac

DDs very frustrating to play now

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[LTZN]
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Especially higher tier games, it feels like what’s the point in having a detection of under 6km when I just get pinged every 30 seconds to a minute by 10-12 km radar, then if I manage to stay alive the CV will just non stop target me until I’m finished, game is getting less and less fun for me unfortunately.

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28 minutes ago, smoothsac said:

game is getting less and less fun for me unfortunately.

Have you tried other classes though? DDs are getting irrelevant now. 

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[SMOKE]
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well welcome to the club of DD masochist ; yes we had to be so cause we still play DD in a game which deny the class their offensive measure and deny their defensive measure, always had ways to nerf its capability and buffing the other class to counter further, and no less asked to go out into harms' way to do so call tactical duties that all the others unwilling to do and had zero or at best minimal and cursory return ...

And course not help by a team that rarely ever do their duty if CLOSE SUPPORT, AA COVER, and you can bet most of the time they would be caring about their own farming instead of taking out that enemy Radar / CL / DD up front , they can tank those and to hell with you the little guy ; their own farming is always more important, and then they keep asking you to go out and spot, go out and cap, go out and take out that enemy DD ... should I go on ....

 

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If you play a different class, and see a friendly DD survive (in a winning game of course). Log out, and check the replay to analyze what the DD does to survive. Or you can try to ping the player after the battle, and ask how he does it.

8 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

well welcome to the club of DD masochist

Sorry but masochist is the type of guy who enjoys being smacked around. Find another word.

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2 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

If you play a different class, and see a friendly DD survive (in a winning game of course). Log out, and check the replay to analyze what the DD does to survive. Or you can try to ping the player after the battle, and ask how he does it.

Sorry but masochist is the type of guy who enjoys being smacked around. Find another word.

NO really if we still carry on playing DD as it is, we must be one to be even bothering to stay with the class ... we might not be admitting it though ... 🙂

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[AMPOL]
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yes WG hates DDs and wont be happy until they are all gone 

 

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11 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

Sorry but masochist is the type of guy who enjoys being smacked around. Find another word.

The key word is enjoy.

Not masochist, but ascetic.

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40 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

If you play a different class, and see a friendly DD survive (in a winning game of course). Log out, and check the replay to analyze what the DD does to survive. Or you can try to ping the player after the battle, and ask how he does it.

Or better yet, play a DD and upload the replay here so we can analyze it for you.

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9 hours ago, Paladinum said:

The key word is enjoy.

Not masochist, but ascetic.

well technically I disagree , Asceticism is a willfully self imposed condition of denial of substance, where Masochism is mainstay by the fact of receiving end of pain and punishment , self imposed or otherwise. And clearly if still playing DD, even after the fact knowing the play and the game would put you in suffering and punishment disregard and still going in to play a DD, the player must had to had fun doing it , it might not be victory, it might not be damage deal, it might not even be doing all the DD thing. When a DD player enter a high tier game itself, its willfully asking for such , such badly balanced game meta, such pain, such punishment .. yeah .. so ...

But let's get back to OP's

Yes the game put DD player into a tight corner, you can go out and do the DD thing and expect quick heroic death ( and your teammate will not spare their curse on you either ) , or you can put your survival as agenda no.1 and be very cautious and wait and wait till enemy team thinned down and mid to late game when you can stat do something then you are equally cursed by your teammate and get reported ( and they keep asking you to go out and be fire bait so they can just farm ) ... Yes CV can be a PITA , and for that you stay stealth and you stay within AA cover of team's AA ships .. and when your team ask you to break out and go out , just tell them " Care to tell me if you guys will fellow me 5KM behind always cause that's basically the bare max AA cover can cover and not to speak of enemy DD, CA, CL " yes ask for Close Support and if not provided, then you had to be stern and tell the team NO ... you are not to be sacrificed so they can had theirs ... Know the limit of being a DD especially a DD at high tier , flanking is very seldom a viable choice any more except for long range scouting ( and you still run the risk of enemy DD & planes ) , these days BB had long range Secondaries and they had speed to chase you to the end of the map ( unless you are French or Soviet Gunboats ), Radar that reach longer than your default gun range and no less Hydro if you ever try to island hop .. if you are in a game with CV, then tell the team  your primary task is no longer spotting ; that's the domain for the planes, you can do better to screen and support , proactively going out, pushing up front without close support should only be done when tactical superiority been established, else its just a gamble which usually do not end well. Capping must be done with utmost care and contesting cap will be a mind and anticipation game ; knowing when to pull away from the front is critical.

Right now for so many DD Player in a high tier game ; just surviving the game is already a victory in its own right ; but of course as usual, surviving, doing all the right thing, doing all the DD ( so call )  tactical duties return practically zero reward but put you into harms' way always , can we not say we are Masochist playing DD .. ..  😞  

Edited by Mechfori

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3 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

Or better yet, play a DD and upload the replay here so we can analyze it for you.

Is it not against the Forum's rule to do that , after all that would reveal player's identity ( not just the said DD player )

Edited by Mechfori

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3 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

Is it not against the Forum's rule to do that , after all that would reveal player's identity ( not just the said DD player )

Why would uploading your own DD games be against forums rules? :Smile_amazed:

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6 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

Is it not against the Forum's rule to do that , after all that would reveal player's identity ( not just the said DD player )

Some players have been posting full-baked Youtube video on the forum with no issue. It is only against the rule if the post is attached to the naming & shaming elements.

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Pro tip: Stay out of the radar range of cruisers, unless you are deliberately trying to bait them.

Do try, however, to stay close enough to keep them spotted, so your BBs can finish them off for you. High-tier DD games are all about prioritizing opportunity. If the enemy has a cap locked under radar coverage, either spot, contest another cap, torp some BBs on the flank, or close-support some friendly ships with smoke or DFAA (if you are USN DD). The trick is to know which of your available options is the most useful at any given instant.

Good DD players know when to back off a cap.

 

Edited by Rina_Pon
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[SPCTH]
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Ive been using DD alot and yes being the only DD on the team, nobody pushes to support, constant harassment from CV. I even chased down a T8 CV with my T6 DD and he out sailed me and killed me with secondaries. Dropped a Siliwangi from crate. Soon more in the shop. Giving them away now, its a dying class, some games theres no DD. As now it stands about 50% of my games with only 1 DD per team and 30% with 2-3 and roughly 20% with NO DD. This is at T7-10 but below that there are a few more till they learn and move up higher.

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[ULAG]
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Try to sail near your teammates' AA bubble at the start of the match when there's a CV, and don't sail in a easily predicted path to the cap (for example: full speed ahead to the cap in front of your spawn), so when the typical CV is searching for your little boat he will have a hard time and will switch target to an already spotted ship, most probably cruisers who have decent AA and hp. Your position are the most predictable at the start of the match and when you are capping, so be extra careful and patient when you are in the situation.  

As of now aggressive plays in a CV and radar heavy match results in quick death, so play extra safe for now

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13 hours ago, smoothsac said:

Especially higher tier games, it feels like what’s the point in having a detection of under 6km when I just get pinged every 30 seconds to a minute by 10-12 km radar, then if I manage to stay alive the CV will just non stop target me until I’m finished, game is getting less and less fun for me unfortunately.

“Especially higher tier games, it feels like what’s the point in having a detection of under 6km when I just get pinged every 30 seconds to a minute by 10-12 km radar, then if I manage to stay alive the CV will just non stop target me until I’m finished, game is getting less and less fun for me unfortunately.”

 

Well, I play mostly ops these days, Random is often frustrating. But the few games I do play are often DD.

 

Study the enemy team ship line-up before the match starts and identify radar ships. Track enemy radar cruisers and stay out of their range. As long as these have not been spotted, don’t charge ahead of the team.

 

Also trying to charge ahead and cap early gets you killed. Likely there is an enemy radar cruiser sitting behind an island, waiting for you to start flip the cap. Under these circumstances, when people tell you to “Cap A” tell them to go and cap, maybe they learn why you don’t go?

 

When you keep an eye on planes, you can often stay out of their spotting range by manoeuvring. Switch AA off, unless you are detected.

 

I find RN and PA DDs that get more smoke charges work better these days.

 

But fair enough, if a CV decides to kill you, he probably will. That is frustrating, because generally you cannot fight back, because the CV is outside your range.

 

Hard to say more without seeing you drive a DD, but I guess your biggest problem may be your positioning. If you get pinged that often and ground down by carrier planes, that indicates you should improve your positioning.

 

 

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I've been playing the Montana of late to get the legendary upgrade, but noticed over the weekend periods where there were 80 or so players in queue and 1 or 2 DD. 

Jumped into the Shima and had a ball. Lots of games had no CV and it was fabulous. 

Just logged in with the Montana so see what the queue was like, hardly any dds then jump back out and reenter in a DD. 

With radar ships likely to be around don't commit too hard to pushing forward. With so few dds these days you usually have time to work out where radar ships are. And you are very valuable to your team in the mid to late game, so DON'T DIE EARLY!! Always priority target mark radar ships, I often type at the start of the game "Can you please kill radar first" most games you get a few affirmatives and generally they help you out. 

When hunting radar ships where I know the location pretty well, I like to approach radar ships at a very shallow angle to make the turn away easier and to make torp drops easier. You are trying to bait the radar when they get spotted. By the time they have aimed at you you should be well on the way to escaping. If you are approaching them head on then you will take a lot of damage turning away. If they are behind an island your torps should be pretty close to getting to them while the radar is still on. If they get greedy then you have a good chance to kill them. Know their radar ranges and don't get too close. Have your speed boost ready to trigger if you need to cover some distance to get out of range. When you are pointed pretty much directly away from them, hit the brakes hard and then accelerate, its hard for them to judge your speed and will overshoot then undershoot so you don't take much damage.   

If you get surprised then hope for some cover close by and play the directly away speed change game. But its going to be hard - as it should be. Either you have stuffed up or he has outplayed you, either of those circumstances mean you should pay for it.

For CVs there was some good info recently about when to turn away. With CV stay closish to your air cover, if your CV is supporting you with air cover you can be a bit more adventurous. I tend to ping the direction of the closest enemy ship to steer the CV onto them at the start of the game, mostly CVs will keep you alive as best they can if you are helping them this way. Often they will be able to hurt the enemy dd enough to make them more cautious. 

Cap when its safe to do so, but be aware you are telling everyone pretty much where you are, and if you are getting the "located" warning then expect torps to be fired at you. They know the direction and you just gave them likely distance. I will nearly always hover just off the cap waiting for enemy dds to start capping just to launch torps. I am then close enough to interrupt the cap if I need to, or just move in and recap it after 30 sec or so. You don't have to get the cap first to be effective.  

With so few DDs around these days it can be awesome fun, and very rewarding. 

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good news, many more 12km radar equipped ship gonna be implement more in next few patch.

WG sure love those cheat program... better find one my own to counter them 😄

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I honestly think this is the biggest issue in the game right now - the difficulty in playing DD's compared to other classes.  There are just too many challenges to DD play, which makes it very difficult for poor to average players to play the class.  It's not any one thing either, it's just everything added together.  The proliferation of radar and hydro, the CV rework, Italian cruisers and their SAP shells, high dpm gunboats - when you have to deal with all of these things together, life gets hard for even the best players, and almost impossible for the less aware.

The follow on from this is that many players just give up because it's too hard, and play other classes instead.  This leads to the current population problems.  This then has a very negative effect on the meta, because DD's do the most important jobs in the game - spotting, screening, and capping.  The game just doesn't function properly without enough DD's (ideally 3-4).

The problem is compounded by DD's being very powerful despite their difficulty.  This means that a bad DD or an early DD loss has a much more negative effect on your chance of winning than if it was another class that played poorly or died early.  If you have only one DD and they aren't very good, you're likely to have a very frustrating battle.

Since they are so powerful in capable hands, you can't just buff DD's.  They need to be simplified to make them easier to play for poor to average players, without making them even more powerful for the best players.

There's no doubt fixes are needed though - hopefully WG are planning some changes, although I don't know if they are, as I haven't even heard comments saying they think it's an issue.

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2 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

I honestly think this is the biggest issue in the game right now - the difficulty in playing DD's compared to other classes.  There are just too many challenges to DD play, which makes it very difficult for poor to average players to play the class.  It's not any one thing either, it's just everything added together.  The proliferation of radar and hydro, the CV rework, Italian cruisers and their SAP shells, high dpm gunboats - when you have to deal with all of these things together, life gets hard for even the best players, and almost impossible for the less aware.

The follow on from this is that many players just give up because it's too hard, and play other classes instead.  This leads to the current population problems.  This then has a very negative effect on the meta, because DD's do the most important jobs in the game - spotting, screening, and capping.  The game just doesn't function properly without enough DD's (ideally 3-4).

The problem is compounded by DD's being very powerful despite their difficulty.  This means that a bad DD or an early DD loss has a much more negative effect on your chance of winning than if it was another class that played poorly or died early.  If you have only one DD and they aren't very good, you're likely to have a very frustrating battle.

Since they are so powerful in capable hands, you can't just buff DD's.  They need to be simplified to make them easier to play for poor to average players, without making them even more powerful for the best players.

There's no doubt fixes are needed though - hopefully WG are planning some changes, although I don't know if they are, as I haven't even heard comments saying they think it's an issue.

DDs are becoming more and more like RTS CVs. High influence, high skill gap class with fewer and fewer players.

If this goes on a DD rework will be needed.

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12 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

DDs are becoming more and more like RTS CVs. High influence, high skill gap class with fewer and fewer players.

If this goes on a DD rework will be needed.



Then CA rework.

Then BB rework.

Then CL rework.

Then sub rework.

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3 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

DD rework

As the game environment evolves along time DDs faced harsher & harsher counters to their survival and more responsibilities to be done, I would say they need a bit help in terms of survival as their low hp makes carrying out all the "supposed" task safely really hard and skill demanding. Or they need something else to ease their burden on the shoulder

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50% hp gone from CV rockets within few minutes into the game even before any enemy in my gun range :")

I guess I'm the one classified as no skill from WG devs

Fun game aye?

 

I reckon DD should just position behind CAs and BBs , even behind CV if possible 🙂

Better safe than sorry?! why risk your already low hp pool to spot for your team. While your team is having fun, you are just a disposable radar.

Edited by UvebeenHAZED

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