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Earl_of_Arland

IJN DD Line Difference?

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Hello everyone,

Bored (or rather, stressed) of high-tier gameplay, i decided to play lower tier and branch out, specifically the IJN DDs. I currently at the T4 Isokaze, and the line splits to Minekaze and Mutsuki.

Now, i understood that the top tiers are very different to each other, but it seems T7 and below are similar (same 127mm guns, same 610mm tubes)? Is there any significant differences below T9?

And which line is more... 'fun' ?

 

 

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I suppose you mean below T8 ; well really very very little , despite different class of ships they are still primary IJN Torpedo Boat ; just having difference here and there a bit but really only a bit ; Shira got TRB though.

And starting with Akizuki well then they are slow DD with amazing guns to had

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Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu have better concealment.

Fubuki and Akatsuki have more torps.

Shiratsuyu can trade the smoke for TRB.

Akatsuki has a much more functional turret layout that lets her kite DDs to death.

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12 minutes ago, Verytis said:

Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu have better concealment.

Fubuki and Akatsuki have more torps.

Shiratsuyu can trade the smoke for TRB.

Akatsuki has a much more functional turret layout that lets her kite DDs to death.

This.

Also Fubuki and Akatsuki have 3x3 torpedo launchers while Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu have 2x3 and 2x4 launchers respectively - this means in terms of torp power Fubuki and Akatsuki are actually better as they have more torpedoes and the triple torp launchers reload faster than the quads. However Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu have the advantage in concealment; in fact Akatsuki has pretty bad concealment while Shiratsuyu is best in tier.

Hatsuharu has slightly better gun reload than Fubuki plus they are dual purpose so you actually get long range AA. Akatsuki's guns also dual purpose but Shiratsuyu's are not.

Gameplay-wise the Fubuki and Hatsuharu play pretty similar - both are torpedo boats except Hatsuharu gives up 1/3 of its torpedo power in exchange for better concealment, better gun dps, better maneuverability and long range AA.

Akatsuki and Shiratsuyu are where the differences get more pronounced - Shiratsuyu is strictly a torpedo boat due to its great concealment, poor gun layout and the ability to mount TRB instead of smoke, while Akatsuki functions more like a hybrid with poor concealment but good gun layout .

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T5:

Mutsuki - A small upgrade from Isokaze. Has 8 km torps with moderate reload time. But has slow top speed.

Minekaze - Almost same as Mutsuki. But has 7 km torps with faster reload, faster top speed, and better concealment.

T6:

Fubuki -  A further improvement from Mutsuki. Has 10 km torps (not stock). and moderate concealment (6.1 km at full build).

Hatsuharu - Almost same as Fubuki. But has 1 less triple torp launcher (of the same type) per salvo in exchange for better concealment (best at T6)

T7:

Akatsuki - Similar with Fubuki, and has a similar configuration with the old T8 Fubuki (3 twin guns). But has mediocre concealment for a torpboat (less stealthier than Jervis & Gadjah Mada).

Shiratsuyu - A complete improvement over Hatsuharu. 2 quad torp launchers with 10 km range. Can swap smoke for TRB. And has best concealment at T7.

 

Final verdict:

The Mutsuki line is more balanced with little differences as you progress further.

The Minekaze line has extreme changes as you progress further, but also comes with some better & worse trade-off with the Mutsuki line.

Funny thing is, I enjoy Fubuki more than Hatsuharu. And my top damage & spotting damage record as a DD were set on Fubuki, the records were only surpassed by Kitakaze recently. Quite ironic because I'm not a part of the Anti CV brigade.

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Of the T5-7 IJN DDs, I only kept Hatsuharu and Akatsuki. Shiratsuyu kinda sucks in the CV meta, Fubuki is too much of a clutz, while gunnery on the T5 ships is near nonexistant.

As a general utility boat, Akatsuki is the star of the show. Hatsuharu is the distillation of torp-boat DD gameplay, a Shimakaze in miniature.

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Also despite being in the gunboat line of the split Shiratsuyu is actually a better torp boat than Akatsuki, and can be a lot of fun if you play it with TRB, though it's a completely unforgiving option without the smoke

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Alright, i chose Mutsuki because i want to try torpedo boat style. Now...how to actually play it? Sure great concealment, hard hitting torpedoes, fast...but capping results in instant death, spotting is useless to do, and stealth-torping are hard if the enemy kept changing course...

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May as well wait until Bofors DDs because their torps have great range, fastest in the game, fastest reload but very sh*tty damage. If you want to start a torp DD line in this meta, you may want to consider this line as the start. 

Your ultimate goal should be torpedo build French or Russian DDs (Kapparoast).

Edited by Paladinum

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3 hours ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Alright, i chose Mutsuki because i want to try torpedo boat style. Now...how to actually play it? Sure great concealment, hard hitting torpedoes, fast...but capping results in instant death, spotting is useless to do, and stealth-torping are hard if the enemy kept changing course...

Unfortunately, a 10 point captain is a standard requirement for Mutsuki & Fubuki (until you get the 10 km torps). As for how hard it is to score torp hits,  you are just unlucky to have enemies that are awake.

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4 hours ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Alright, i chose Mutsuki because i want to try torpedo boat style. Now...how to actually play it? Sure great concealment, hard hitting torpedoes, fast...but capping results in instant death, spotting is useless to do, and stealth-torping are hard if the enemy kept changing course...

As Feather said above, you need a 10pt captain for concealment.

Apart from that, at T5 only radar you will see is Belfast, Atlanta and Indianapolis, so look out for those ships.

Every other DD can out gun you, so use your concealment to spot for you team, light up enemy DDs to keep them out of cap circles so you can cap (assuming you’re team can throw a folly or two of fire their way). Don’t engage recklessly, but don’t forget about your guns either. Use them when you think you can get away with it, when you’re smoked, when enemy is low on HP, when you can avoid the return fire for just long enough to go undetected, when they’re distracted etc...

As for torpedos... While IJN torpedos have been famously nerfed, and torpedo boats have been powercrept by gunboats, the other truth is that after 4 plus years, many players are smarter now, they know how to change course and speed to avoid torpedos. To be a good torpedo boat captain, you need to think ahead, send torpedos to choke points, gaps in islands. Predict where the enemy ships will be, even before you see them. It requires a good knowledge of the maps and strategy. And luck.

Often, what you are mostly doing with torpedos is area denial, stopping ships from advancing, forcing them back, making them expose broadside to your allies. It’s quite effective, but not very satisfying or rewarding.

Though if you do it long enough, every now and the. You’ll get the odd BB who just goes in a straight line.

And then complains in forum about how OP DDs are :Smile_trollface:

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One thing to know about playing IJN torpedo boat is that .. well .. they are specified to fail .. just check their torpedo specification, they are artificially made to be inferior like of like vs all others, as I've stated on other thread, a high end IJN torp boat can had 10/12KM range torp that goes 67 knots but detectable at 1.7km , but USS DD can had torp that goes out to 10.5 / 16.5 and run at 66 knots but only detectable at 1.4km ; yes the IJN torp got higher alpha damage but what's the use if you cannot hit .. and WG keep saying IJN are the torpedo specialist, their torp is the top , and for a reference French DD at high tier got 76km torp but even that they had only 1.8km detection .. tell me that's a balance

Playing IJN Torpedo boat is about having some really lousy guns ( case your guns never able to transverse quick enough to train on enemy when you need it ) ; Torpedo that's high damage but the toughest to get them to hit and your speed is not exactly great ( until you get to the end , Shima ), and you got some flimsy HP pool .. its right now the most challenged of all DD to play , most unforgiving and likely not to be dethroned from this for quite some time. Oh and you got lousy AA too .

The 3 IJN Gunboat is just that , gunboat instead of DD , think of them as super flimsy CL instead with no armor and meager HP pool but super effective guns and slow speed ( for a DD ) ; smoke is your best friend ,  decent AA though, and can partly freelance as a torpedo boat with the same 10/12KM torpedo as they had on the other line ( but only 1 launcher )

Edited by Mechfori

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27 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

And luck

A supertanker full of it.

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No matter which DD line you choose, with current meta, you will either gg or left with half HP inside 3 mins from rocket planes

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1 hour ago, Leviathon7881 said:

No matter which DD line you choose, with current meta, you will either gg or left with half HP inside 3 mins from rocket planes

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What did you say?

Edit:

I'm not even a DD-main. But my hatred on DD is immeasurable when I play other classes.

Edited by Sir_Feather
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14 hours ago, Leviathon7881 said:

No matter which DD line you choose, with current meta, you will either gg or left with half HP inside 3 mins from rocket planes

I disagree

 

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On 2/3/2020 at 6:28 PM, Sir_Feather said:

 

What did you say?

Edit:

I'm not even a DD-main. But my hatred on DD is immeasurable when I play other classes.

 

And I am a DD/CL main and my hatred towards other class ( but not CV ) is immeasurable .. Cruiser who all the game stay well behind the BB, and BB all camping back lane already .. when keep asking others to go upfront and fight battle for them so enemy can had a target to fire at and they an casually, safely, farm ...  you know how would I get even with these, well simply just lure them enemies to the campers .. if they do not want to engage a fight then let the fight come to them ....

 

Edited by Mechfori

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On 2/1/2020 at 10:12 AM, Earl_of_Arland said:

And which line is more... 'fun' ?

Haha, I was waiting for some time to be able to use this:

But seriously, the only way to find out for you is try them both.

The T8 Kagero and up are classic torp boats, those used to be fun. T9 Yugumo and T10 Shimikaze have usable guns but won't win knife fights with gunboats. Before CV rework, those certainly were fun for me.

On the IJN gunboat tree, I got stuck at T8 Akizuki for quite some time. Have only recently unlocked T9 Kitakaze and T10 Harugamo. If you are lucky and not harassed by a CV, those boats are fun for me.

Between the two, what would be more fun for you, difficult to say for me 🙂

 

 

 

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Its not just the CV rework , too many shoot gun long range secondaries, too many Radar, too many machine gun CL / CA so you as a DD player 3 main attribute , Stealth, Speed, and Maneuverability are basically all nullified, and when the game start to be played at ranging meta you also got ranged out ; big guns keep complaining about HE Spamming and so but they fail to recognize they themselves is a primary reason for that when they sit 16,18, 20 KM out and only ever shoot from that far and not formation, battle line with their normal CA, CL and DD and never  tank for the team ... 

T8 Akizuki is not a DD, its a CL with paper thin armor , its too slow to e a DD , Kitakaze on the other hand is a true gunboat DD which can freelance somewhat occasionally as torpedo boat , Harugamo is a true gunboat but suffer the same as Khaba ( take all AP ) , T8 Kagero is the true to all torpedo boat and so is Yugumo, but the big difference is the torp range 10 vs 12KM you just not going to be able to consistently torp and your gun is too slow to be able to consistent deal damage , and not to speak of the lousy ( artifically inflaed ) torpedo detection range on all IJN Torp ; 10KM is not enough usually on Kagero especially when up tiered , and 12KM on Yugumo take it to barely OK .. Shima is Shima its al its own , its still a viale torpedo boat but it got one of the highest demand on skill playing DD , Gearing , YY, even Z-52 and Groz can be far more forgiving

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Oomph, low tier DD with pretty much a guaranteed 3CV. That is a tough row to hoe. 

Try em both out, they have very different playstyles which can be great for a change or to help you round out different playstyles.

 

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Destroyers on the Normal Line with Dual Purpose starts at  V, VII and IX and X , that means Shimakaze, Yuugumo, Akatsuki (Which is the Fubuki C hull back then on 0.5.X) and Mutsuki can deal with Planes as much as possible, these are the only Destroyers that has Dual Purpose Guns, the Gunboat line has only VI, VIII, IX and X, Hatsuharu being the mid line (Which should be the T7 Originally because of Dual purpose AA Guns) Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo had very short reload guns of 10cm but with buffed penetrations, they have torpedoes but they deal less damage but their shells increases more hell to the fire, the H.E Shots per second can annoy enemies at ease, the AA is almost Ridiculous, you dont need a Gearing or an allied Destroyer to need AA help, because these gunboats are the AA Themselves, Harugumo is very fun but unless if you neeeeed alot of credenitals for repairs.

Edited by IJN_Hayasui
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