Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Rina_Pon

What's up with the vegetable playerbase lately?

19 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

638
[BLESS]
Member
1,195 posts
10,696 battles

And yes, [CN_70] still seem to be infecting the matchmaking, but this isn't about that, but rather about the sudden shift in meta since the Royal Navy heavy cruiser event opened.

Just as I thought things were looking up, things have regressed big time. I mean the camping, the disinterest in support and playing for the objective, the overall skill level... just sudednly cratered. Even the good players are choosing to hang back and wait for the dust to settle before cleaning up. Way too many games are being lost by one team falling into negative points. You know what that means right? Negative points means your team got ownd. Far too often I'm left staring at three red cap zones, sitting there in my DD as my team camps on the B line. Far too often I'm the last DD alive, with 3 caps under by belt, losing because my team won't even put pressure on a cap without me there.

And its not just my team, I've won games where the situation has flipped. Our team moves up in an orderly and covering fasion, and I go up against the enemy DD who is correctly contesting the cap but has been hung out to dry by his team, the closest of which is over 15 km and running for the back of the map.

It's the Chinese New Year holiday which is causing this, isn't it? An influx of vacationing casuals. Because you can really feel it.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
705
[SMOKE]
Member
1,917 posts
16,015 battles

its just so, I've gone to the point that if I see that the team would not even as much as simply giving a little support up front, then I just tell them " I QUIT " and sail back camping with my DD and I clearly inform them if they are not pushing out then I won't either , let's hurt each others dearly ; Its not like I am that easy to detect from that far back anyway in my DD. Last night I got 3 game where our SUPER CRUISER all start running back right from start of game and just hang in there all the time .. needless to say what would the result be ..

Edited by Mechfori

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,110
[CLAY]
Member
2,772 posts
12,373 battles

I was in a game yesterday where, in my ognevoi, I was contesting a cap occupied by enemy lighting. Hotspot, 3 big islands in the west.

My team on that flank went west of the big island, putting themselves on the other side of the cap. Not an uncommon tactic, but it meant that they could not provide fire support (and, if I wasn’t there, left themselves open to getting flanked). I was mostly on even ground with the lighting (with no help from the friendly Hsiang who had driven all the way over from the middle so he could yolo forward and get killed). So the battle would go to whoever got help from their team first. Then I was sunk by the enemy Iszumo who DID have ability to shoot into cap circle.

Could I have been more defensive? Should I have gotten out of there? Should I have realised the lack of support I had from my team? Yeah, probably. I think the team won anyway, so there must have been a few good players despite two DDs going down. But the game could have gone smoother if ships had gone both sides of the big island, and actually thought to support their DD.

Often, DDs only become the most vital of team mates once they’re dead. Until then they’re something you ignore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
181
[TWR]
Alpha Tester
1,333 posts
4,969 battles

Had enemy team cv and 2 very dangerous ships still alive.

I found 1 in my DD pushing into the red line, bot.

Found the other doing the same thing, poor cv was all alone.

Went and sank the cv.

Totally relieved coz thats my team 90% of battles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
338 posts
6,754 battles

Welcome to Asia server, where survival is top priority. 

I'm actually used to the reserved gameplay this server has now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
165
[ANZAF]
Member
416 posts
5,993 battles
8 hours ago, Mechfori said:

its just so, I've gone to the point that if I see that the team would not even as much as simply giving a little support up front, then I just tell them " I QUIT " and sail back camping with my DD and I clearly inform them if they are not pushing out then I won't either , let's hurt each others dearly ; Its not like I am that easy to detect from that far back anyway in my DD. Last night I got 3 game where our SUPER CRUISER all start running back right from start of game and just hand there all the time .. needless to say what would the result be ..

I've found that surprisingly often the damage farmers stay in game, I presume so they can play their fav farming tool in the next game. 

I then do everything in my power to make the game last as long as possible to extract max salty "Idiot just die so we can get into next game fast" tears.

My stock response of "So you can not support anyone in the next game? No thanks I'll keep you out of queue as long as possible" really ups the tear volume and salinity levels.  

Bad news for Karma but who the hell cares.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,007
[AUSNZ]
Beta Tester
1,310 posts
11,024 battles

Most people don't actually have an understanding of what wins games.  Many BB and cruiser captains think it's their job to do damage, and someone else's job to cap, but they fail to realise that the way they position their ship has a direct response in how the enemy will position.  The cap fight is not a fight of which DD can get the cap, it is fundamentally a fight for team position.  Whichever team has the better position around that cap is going to win the cap.  If your teams BB's and cruisers can move nearer the cap as a team, then the enemy team will tend to fall away, and then the DD is much more free to take the cap, like a Rugby winger taking the last pass and falling over the line.

This is the absolute most fundamental part of the game, the positioning battle, and the vast majority of players have no inkling of it as a concept.

So what can you do to win the caps and thus likely the battle for your team, when you have a team of people who are hanging back?  Well it's important to understand the motivations behind those players.  They are followers, not leaders.  They don't have the game knowledge to understand the concepts that I outlined above, and part of this is they feel if they push they will be abandoned by their team and die (what actually happens in this case is that they don't understand what the difference between pressuring the enemy and overextending is, and thus push up too far and with no outs).  You can play on this though - most followers will move up if the team moves up together.  What you need to do is push without overextending in a way that encourages your team to get a bit closer.  If they move up then the enemy team will move back and you are winning the battle for your team.  You need to move up and back a bit depending on how much damage you are taking or are likely to take, but constant pressure is required while using your health as a pushing resource.

This isn't easy of course, and while some teams react beautifully to this, some just will not move up even with good positioning on your part, and of course some players stuff up and die early which makes it harder for your flank.  You can only do your best!

  • Cool 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
163
[POI]
Member
968 posts
10,543 battles

To brighten the things up a bit, despite having matches where my team just melted like a snowflake under summer sun, but quite frequently I had teammates who knew what to do, response in chat, willingly supporting others, focus down an opponent, and push for cap. 

Can't help it but to have below averse teammates, I will just do my best to make it less salty XD 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
638
[BLESS]
Member
1,195 posts
10,696 battles
2 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

This is the absolute most fundamental part of the game, the positioning battle, and the vast majority of players have no inkling of it as a concept.

Bravo! This is a perfect  one line explanation, both for what World of Warships is and why it is so frustrating to play.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
638
[BLESS]
Member
1,195 posts
10,696 battles
3 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

...most followers will move up if the team moves up together.  What you need to do is push without overextending in a way that encourages your team to get a bit closer.

I've been reviewing my early game strategy along exactly these lines. Generally when playing Benson/Fletcher/Gearing I open aggressively, going as deep as as I can without compromising safety. If I can cap uncontested, I would do so, otherwise I'll scout from close to the cap edge. At least for no CV games. The reason I want to move up is to gain map control and provide vision to my team. My positioning is largely independent of what my team is doing, since I run no risk of detection I don't need their support.

Anyway, I'm changing that to "move up slowly about 4-5 km ahead of the fleet" for all games regardless of whether there is a CV. Basically switch from scout to close support even in situations where there is little need for it.

While there is no practical value, it's a morale booster. I think too many times other players have got burnt by moving up early, only to be let down by their teammates, focused, and killed. They have grown reluctant to commit to anything for the first half of the game. As  DD, think of yourself as the tourguide of Asian bus tour, waving the little flag and keeping everyone together.

Edited by Rina_Pon
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,110
[CLAY]
Member
2,772 posts
12,373 battles

WG: The perfect start to any meal, vegetable soup seasoned with salt.

  • Funny 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
705
[SMOKE]
Member
1,917 posts
16,015 battles

Playing DD, I had found that these days I had to adopt multiple strategy depending on which DD I am in and the team's composition, and of course the number of CV and Radar in game , and of course the map itself. It is so even back then but its more so now with so many passive if not selfish players around. Too many time its either just rush for cover, rush for the back lane or simply rush to flanking without regard to own team, enemy team or even if the ship is suited for he task ... And too often what I see in game is once a player adopt a set mode of operating his/her ship , the person would simply stuck with it failing to adopt to changing situations.

Most typical of this meta is USS Radar CL, and IJN Super Cruisers, one is like always try to find the largest rock to hide behind , which then limit his scope of coverage, restrict his own vision, and offer no fire arc at all, on the latter they just keep sailing back and back and back and keep saying they need to keep the distance despite the fact that they had already out range themselves from the front ; we can had similar cases argued for almost each and every class of ships.

Although I do agree sailing something like 5/6 KM ahead of the pack and reassuring them of a screening vanguard could be a morale booster ; however ; I doubt this actually encourage / persuade any to come out and actually team / group / battle line and PUSH , move and just be mobile ... its more likely these days they just see that as DD own them for that. Too often I would be using my speed and my stealth in my DD to position near the cap zone so I can try to scout and find a position and if allowed, invade the Cap , and despite repeated chat request, pleading, even shouting .. no no no, the guns just will not , and if I back off then I got called for not going in .. so they think DD always need to brave the enemy, be fire bait, be everything when they got to be, need to be,  just had to be safe , sit, snipe, and comfortably farm.

Really I no longer put any trust in any guns these days, and no matter how good the intention ... right now the game for me is simple, not seeing a positive PUSH from the team, then forget about my service. I am not going to be fire bait so they can farm, I am not going to scout & spot so they can farm, I am not going to screen so they can just sit, and I am not going to CAP just so they can had the point advantage and had even less incentive ( and to them more reason ) to not to PUSH out and do some real fighting ...  Been asked too many time " just how close you want us be " and I would answer " how far can your AA shoot " its just a simple mathematical model and even for that most simply refuse to do their part, and when they refuse to do theirs, there is no reason why I should go do mine knowing no support forth coming and every kind of danger lurks ... Its not about making the best of a game , or doing one's best ... its about now me vs own team ... they do not want it , great, then they will not get it - I am making sure of that. If they see survival and farming their own goal and only goal, and not fighting , winning the game then the game is already half over already and I am not putting myself up as offering to the enemy just because others refuse to game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
211
[KAMI]
Member
429 posts
5,751 battles

Had the pleasure of torp rushing 3 BBs, and seeing 2 DDs decide to smoke up and shoot right in front of me. Easy Kagerou games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
189
[ANZAC]
Member
517 posts
18,417 battles
15 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

Bravo! This is a perfect  one line explanation, both for what World of Warships is and why it is so frustrating to play.

 

I'll simplify further. Two words.

MAP CONTROL.

If you're sitting on the a/b line trying to farm damage, well your actual influence is marginal.

 I do feel gameplay has devolved since the NA server exodus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
338 posts
6,754 battles
4 hours ago, j0e90 said:

I'll simplify further. Two words.

MAP CONTROL.

If you're sitting on the a/b line trying to farm damage, well your actual influence is marginal.

 I do feel gameplay has devolved since the NA server exodus

>implying all the bitchy Aussies and kiwis are good players in the first place

  • Funny 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
181
[CHIPS]
Member
420 posts
33,741 battles

I want to clarify first up that this isn't a flex post or a 'git gud' taunt.

But what people tend to forget about bad metas (weekend/holiday/event/win bonus/exodus to NA or EU/bot fiesta) is that it fills the enemy team with easy targets just as much as it fills the your team with useless team mates.

You can either get upset at the latter OR you can exploit the former. These are my stats since the British CA event started"

week.thumb.jpg.f800c312629707383baa57dc16208dfa.jpg

90% of the games are solo, and the results are -significantly- better than the ones I get in a less vegetable server meta.

There's a mechanism (I wouldn't call it an art or a science or a secret) to exploiting metas full of bad players on both sides. I can write up a detailed guide on it but for starters, stop playing ships who's primary utility is spotting for the team or enabling the team. Stop playing ships that require much support from team mates. Start playing ships that are independent, or can do rapid damage or can disengage easily or are ambush predators. Start playing ships that can punish bad gameplay on a dime or can rekt afk or bot moving opponents. Start playing ships that can kite enemy pushes when your team inevitably fails and trade damage very favourably. Start relying more or gunbote damage for dds and less on torps.
Start playing T8 and T9 and face enemies two tiers below you 60% of the time (thats the new MM meta). Stop playing T7, the days of padding at T7 are long gone. 

More potatos overall means less intelligent enemies to foil your gameplay. Take advantage of that.

Would I prefer a more skilled meta to play in ? Yes, that would be more fun. And people in hell want ice water. 

This is the world we live in now, learn to rule it.
 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,684
[TLS]
Member
4,058 posts
20,261 battles

Basically, play all round ships that do not rely on other people and play selfishly. I am not surprised given the way the game rewards play: damage, damage and more damage.

Such a 'team game'.

Edited by dejiko_nyo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,034
[REPOI]
[REPOI]
Member
6,420 posts
26,358 battles
6 hours ago, j0e90 said:

I'll simplify further. Two words.

MAP CONTROL.

If you're sitting on the a/b line trying to farm damage, well your actual influence is marginal.

 I do feel gameplay has devolved since the NA server exodus

that all depends on situational awareness, if you are on the kiting flank, then farming damage on the AB line is the best possible thing you can do. it all just comes down to map awareness knowing what to do at the right time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
705
[SMOKE]
Member
1,917 posts
16,015 battles
9 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Basically, play all round ships that do not rely on other people and play selfishly. I am not surprised given the way the game rewards play: damage, damage and more damage.

Such a 'team game'.

which in itself already is bad, but even worse is those camping farmers all keep demanding others to go up front, PUSH, CAP, SPOT, and fight the game for them , and they whine about when others do not do what they demand, knowingly not supporting by all account .. they speak like the team owe them ..

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×