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MrHumpty_Dumpty

Is AP even useful anymore at Tier 10?

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The tier 10 meta is so boring because ships like the henri, yoshino and smolensk are around. Most BB enganegments happen around 20km + and they mostly use HE anyway. The only tier 10 ships that bother shooting AP is Yamato for obvious reasons and Des Moines due to heavy american AP and of course, the one CA i enjoy fighting the Venezia. Honestly i dont mind only shooting HE, but the amount of fires it causes it ridiculous and the only BB capable of withstanding all the HE is Kremlin, and its why all the Toxic HE Spamming cruisers want to nerf it because the BB's finally have a ship that can slap those op cruisers. Another ship that is so ridicolous is the Thunderer, its like no one has ever bothered to shoot AP in it, and the playstyle is just an accurate conqueror. Its just so frustrating trying to 1v1 a conqueror in a GK or Kremlin because all the Conqueror has to do is kite away, start fires, and if you citadel it, it can repair most of its health again, while it still shreds you to pieces. Another line that was appealing was German Cruisers with big AP dmg values, but oh no, of course no one bothers with the AP because shooting HE and starting fires requires NO SKILL. Being able to play as a stealthy cruiser and getting onto BB and CA flank to destroy them with AP is too much effort so instead kiting away while starting fires is fun. CV isnt as OP as it was, but i find that the constant Plane spotting contributes to this new toxic HE meta where kiting and fires is all there is. Another thing i wanted to mention is earlier today i was in my kremlin taking advantage of a flank and getting so good citadel broadsides, I was being focused so I asked the Yoshino and Salem behind me to support me, instead the Salem turns full broadside and gets deleted and the Yoshino just runs away, and to no surprise the enemy team took the cap and won the game. Im just sick of this meta and the only real way this meta could possible change is making AP more appealing choice and either nerfing Fire damage or introducing SAP to all nations. Sorry about the rant, its just frustrating to play this game all the time with this meta at tier 10. Whats your thoughts on my opinion?

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You need to take a break from WOWs.

 

Regarding this current meta, Yes asia meta is mostly long range HE spam by cruisers imho but what you expect?? 

I do not see a reason for a BB to not use HE ever.. you cannot think so narrow-minded: OH IM A BB, " I MUST STICK TO AP regardless of the situation"

If you try to use a 406mm gun and shoot at a angled BB(foresay Kremlin/GK), you think AP going to do more damage than HE would?

I do understand some situation people is just oblivious when to use AP and HE 

 

If you cannot handle t10 meta, you can always go lower tier to have more entertaining moments

 

 

Edited by Gummilicious

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Big guns user do not complain about how every 30 second or so they can salvo that which can single nuke those CA CL and no less DD ( When using HE ) and let's not forget its your big guns player peers who create this by keep asking for counter spotting , counter stealth , asking to keep the light force away and keep asking for op guns , larger guns , guns that shoot further harder and over match .

When you all majority just enter the game in a big guns, super cruiser leaving the roster grossly inbalanced with not enough support duty ships

When everyone just want to be the casual damage dealing but not actually fighting not even mid range

When all CA CL DD are opt out and ranged out should anyone blame them for still trying to do their part with the only viable mean that go the range ... Go figure 

Guess why Shima and Ashashio are more common today 

Before addressing the said meta might be its better to ask for normal CA CL DD be given back viable mean and viable play but then big guns will again complain because they are then face able to be countered in various fashions

And finally you cannot balance human nature ; team work is what WG say required but how many do. As a DD main when I keep seeing big guns ranging at 15 / 20KM plus and won't ever PUSH nor even support the front and only wanting the meager roster of light force to go up front and do theirs its hard for me to garner any respect by any measure.

 

Edited by Mechfori

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2 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

new toxic HE meta where kiting and fires is all there is

would you suggest they run up screaming and waving their small guns ahd exposing their flimsy armor instead?

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3 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

instead the Salem turns full broadside and gets deleted

There, it answers your question. You don't spam AP all day long just because the old textbook says so.

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Wows is a game only for those with encyclopedic memory to remember every single detail; excellent mental maths calculations to calculate where your shells land, godly fine motor skills and much more. Also, need tactical prediction ability.

In short, if you are in this for 'fun', bail out early and find something more fun and engaging. Wows is anything but fun and engaging. 

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Good players do not give you broadsides out of free will.

Therefore you only use HE and overmatching AP HE.

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6 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

the only BB capable of withstanding all the HE is Kremlin,

Also the only BB at that tier to have limited DCP. No wonder why they want to shoot you.

 

6 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

all the Toxic HE Spamming cruisers want to nerf it because the BB's finally have a ship that can slap those op cruisers.

Sure, because other BB players certainly want a BB that has cruiser dispersion at certain range.

/s

 

6 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

Another line that was appealing was German Cruisers with big AP dmg values, but oh no, of course no one bothers with the AP

Blame who? WG, for not adding anything more than high AP damage for the German cruisers.

US 203 mm AP on the other hand can be good but the muzzle velocity hampers taking opportunities so bad that I'd only use AP when it's less than 12 km away, if not less. 

 

6 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

Being able to play as a stealthy cruiser and getting onto BB and CA flank to destroy them with AP is too much effort so instead kiting away while starting fires is fun.

Yeah, because 203 mm AP is very good at dealing damage to BBs. It's not like BBs are the natural enemies of cruisers or something. Also BB armor in general is weak against 203 mm AP.

/s

 

6 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

making AP more appealing choice

This I agree.

AP shells in general (not the SAP or RN CL kind) are super situational, some lines just have AP that are so situational they shouldn't be bothered to switch to those at all.

 

6 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

or introducing SAP to all nations.

Heck no. DDs are already suffering as they are and you want more anti-DD tools?

 

6 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

Sorry about the rant, its just frustrating to play this game all the time with this meta at tier 10. Whats your thoughts on my opinion?

We're talking about a video game that has severe balance issues, weird mechanics (some are unfair and the details of many are obscure) and the players are just taking the path of least resistance to make profit, especially in Asia server.

Edited by Paladinum

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Just to add more:

I barely ever switch to HE when playing T8-10 BBs, even RN BBs, which I have none.

I did some battles with Hindenburg using only AP shells. I posted a thread about the result. 

Yoshino's AP is actually pretty good, but the HE are simply better. Consider this a challenge, or at least, a semi-practical experiment.

I wanted to do an AP-only challenge with Salem/Buffalo, but the shell speed discourages me.

Edited by Paladinum

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26 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

I wanted to do an AP-only challenge with Salem/Buffalo, but the shell speed discourages me.

Salem could work. Short reload makes the improved AP an ultimate bane to both Smolensk & Mino.. In fact, Salem can actually citadel some BBs at close range (I have scored citadels against Yamato, Musashi, Roma, and Lenin). But of course the challenging part is to not get killed by some BBs.

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6 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

Honestly i dont mind only shooting HE, but the amount of fires it causes it ridiculous and the only BB capable of withstanding all the HE is Kremlin, and its why all the Toxic HE Spamming cruisers want to nerf it because the BB's finally have a ship that can slap those op cruisers.

What? No. It is not just cruisers that want to nerf it, BBs too.

Even my BBs hate going up against the Kremlin and the rest of the Russian BS line. Because it is indeed BS. All a Kremlin needs to do is slightly angle against my BB and suddenly it is virtually impervious to all my AP. That is why even BBs start spamming HE against it - not because they want to but because there is no other way to damage it. I am guessing that is why WG gave them limited DCP. Sure the Russian BS line can be citadelled with AP, but only if they are showing a flat broadside like a scrub. I am grinding through the Sinop right now and man, it is ridiculous. Sinop? More like SinOP.

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23 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

Salem could work. Short reload makes the improved AP an ultimate bane to both Smolensk & Mino.. In fact, Salem can actually citadel some BBs at close range (I have scored citadels against Yamato, Musashi, Roma, and Lenin). But of course the challenging part is to not get killed by some BBs.

I have once managed to repeatly citadel and destroy a Pr. 21 Lenin with Charles Martel at point blank range during the 1vs1 Ranked Sprint season.

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In the topic of AP usage, can i ask a question?

I'm a (obviously) Hipper player and understood the shell's weaknesses, low damage HE and bouncy, unpredictable AP. How to utilize them to maximum effect though? I have tried to change shells every now and then, but the AP even against full broadside Baltimore tend to overpen (the belt!) or ricochet, meanwhile HE are practically unfeasible due to low RoF and anemic alpha.

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5 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

In the topic of AP usage, can i ask a question?

I'm a (obviously) Hipper player and understood the shell's weaknesses, low damage HE and bouncy, unpredictable AP. How to utilize them to maximum effect though? I have tried to change shells every now and then, but the AP even against full broadside Baltimore tend to overpen (the belt!) or ricochet, meanwhile HE are practically unfeasible due to low RoF and anemic alpha.

If it was truly a full broadside cruiser, your shells can't really bonuce except maybe against turrets. Just looking at a target directly can be deceptive. Either use the minimap to properly check their angles, or just get a angle indicator mod.

If it was a overpen, it means the shell flew too high. If you played BBs, you might notice how shells tend to either overpen or cit against perfectly broadside cruisers, but there are not many pens. The same applies to CA, but not as extreme.

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13 hours ago, Paladinum said:

Heck no. DDs are already suffering as they are and you want more anti-DD tools?

maybe nerfing the alpha damage only towards dd's

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13 hours ago, Verytis said:

Good players do not give you broadsides out of free will.

Therefore you only use HE and overmatching AP HE.

but whats the point of shooting AP at a broadsiding CL when most of the time all you will do is 3-4 overpens, when he reloads every 3-5 seconds and slapping you with 4k salvos and constant fires?

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13 hours ago, Paladinum said:

Just to add more:

I barely ever switch to HE when playing T8-10 BBs, even RN BBs, which I have none.

I did some battles with Hindenburg using only AP shells. I posted a thread about the result. 

Yoshino's AP is actually pretty good, but the HE are simply better. Consider this a challenge, or at least, a semi-practical experiment.

I wanted to do an AP-only challenge with Salem/Buffalo, but the shell speed discourages me.

the only time i can agree with using HE in a BB is when you are versing ships with barely any superstructure, so therefore you shoot HE, but i feel terrible for setting fires every salvo though

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13 hours ago, Paladinum said:

Sure, because other BB players certainly want a BB that has cruiser dispersion at certain range.

i get that the Kremlin has really good dispersion, but how else am i supposed to deal with a Henri 4 spamming HE and using french speed boost at 19km away when i have really bad Montana or GK dispersion. Of course not every single Henri player is a Unicum, but most players know that using french speed boost and juking shells is easy, and having horrible dispersion doesnt really help negate the Henri's strengths.

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8 hours ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

In the topic of AP usage, can i ask a question?

I'm a (obviously) Hipper player and understood the shell's weaknesses, low damage HE and bouncy, unpredictable AP. How to utilize them to maximum effect though? I have tried to change shells every now and then, but the AP even against full broadside Baltimore tend to overpen (the belt!) or ricochet, meanwhile HE are practically unfeasible due to low RoF and anemic alpha.

im currently playing the Roon and honestly i rarely ever switch to the AP since half the time the shells end up shattering, over pen or ricochet. The only thing you can do is set fires and hope the enemy ship has no DCP.

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3 minutes ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

the only time i can agree with using HE in a BB is when you are versing ships with barely any superstructure, so therefore you shoot HE, but i feel terrible for setting fires every salvo though

lol... this the first time i see a guy actually being so empathetic toward a guy he burning for his own benefit 

 

5 minutes ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

but whats the point of shooting AP at a broadsiding CL when most of the time all you will do is 3-4 overpens, when he reloads every 3-5 seconds and slapping you with 4k salvos and constant fires?

Let see Smolensk...

The only way you going to cripple the citadel is mid-long range or he angled himself close range

 

2 minutes ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

i get that the Kremlin has really good dispersion, but how else am i supposed to deal with a Henri 4 spamming HE and using french speed boost at 19km away when i have really bad Montana or GK dispersion. Of course not every single Henri player is a Unicum, but most players know that using french speed boost and juking shells is easy, and having horrible dispersion doesnt really help negate the Henri's strengths.

henri iv got nerfed significantly, and is not that hard to hit before. Now is just so slow acceleration, you just need more experience dealing with henri, if you see one, dont hesitate and try shoot at it

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To the OP, you could always try high tier co-op (if played right you still break even credits wise).

Or play lower tier random. They will have the play style you are looking for.

Remember games are meant to be fun :Smile_teethhappy:

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11 hours ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

In the topic of AP usage, can i ask a question?

I'm a (obviously) Hipper player and understood the shell's weaknesses, low damage HE and bouncy, unpredictable AP. How to utilize them to maximum effect though? I have tried to change shells every now and then, but the AP even against full broadside Baltimore tend to overpen (the belt!) or ricochet, meanwhile HE are practically unfeasible due to low RoF and anemic alpha.

Well, Baltimore's citadel is quite trollish against cruiser's AP (including Hipper's). The only times I manage to citadel a Baltimore with cruiser's APs are if I shoot her from medium range (over 10 km).

But Hipper really needs more buff tbh. Sure Hipper has higher RoF than Eugen, but Eugen's heal outweighs whatever Hipper is better at (I'm talking about her stats of course).

Edited by Sir_Feather
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16 hours ago, Paladinum said:

Sure, because other BB players certainly want a BB that has cruiser dispersion at certain range.

ive played the Kremlin before and you only get cruiser dispersion rarely or at close range, anything past 13km and the shells go all over the place like german or amercian dispersion

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3 hours ago, Gummilicious said:

lol... this the first time i see a guy actually being so empathetic toward a guy he burning for his own benefit 

because setting a fire is based on RNG and not skill, and fire damage far outweighs a citadel in a BB v BB fight

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