earls inquiry Earl's Mini-Inquiry: A look at Yugoslav Destroyer Split

[Ashen_Sky]

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Earl's Mini-Inquiry: A look at Yugoslav Destroyer Split

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Historical Background

Original Design

She was conceived in early 1930s from the rising need to counter any Italian destroyer in case of conflict. The Yugoslav decided to built a single large destroyer type as opposed to another Beograds, and contracted a French company to design the new ship. For start, she was based on the famed Le Fantasque-class in MN service, focusing on speed and firepower. However, she was going to be powered by British-designed propulsion (which drives her up to 37 knots), Advanced fire controls from France and guns from Sweden and Czechoslovakia. Split was intended to mount five Skoda 140 mm (5.5 in)/56 guns (massive for a destroyer, though some said it was going to be replaced by 127 mm variant instead) and respectable anti-aircraft punch with twin Skoda 37 mm and 15 mm. She also packs two, triple 533 mm torpedo tubes for good measure. This 2,400t beast could be called the most powerful destroyer at that time. She was then laid down in July 1939.

Italian Service

Sadly, WWII put a halt on her construction, and soon the Italians captured her half-complete on her namesake city. The Regia Marina decided to continue her construction, replacing the machinery with Italian-built one, and the main armament changed to 135 mm (5.3 in)/45 guns with her AA replaced by Breda. Split was put on high priority as the Italians lacked destroyers, and she was launched in 1943 with this configuration, though work was halted again after the Italian surrendered. She was briefly used by the Germans and stripped of any valuable material before being scuttled.

Post-War Yugoslav Service

With their navy lacking any sizable warships, the Yugoslav government decided to 'resurrect' Split and began ordering parts to properly rebuilt her. However, with Tito-Stalin Split (totally not a pun), they were unable to get her original armament. Due to this, Yugoslavia approached US and UK, and they give them surplus 127 mm (5 in)/38, 40 mm Bofors and advanced electronics with her Italian propulsion replaced by British one. With minor modifications to her hull and removal of one of her torpedo tubes, Split was finally commissioned into Yugoslav Navy in 1953 as flagship.

So, considering her very 'unique' life, it is almost evil not to include her in World of Warships. Not only that, she has three different configurations to potentially play with. European Harekaze? Now we're talking!

1. Annoying destroyer with hard-hitting guns that reload slowly, fast speed, and ok-ish AA.
2. More balanced destroyer with hard-hitting guns that reload a little quicker and faster speed in exchange for bad AA.
3. Dakka-Dakka destroyer with good AA and hydro?

So, What do you guys think? does she fits in the game as a potential premium ship?

[Paladinum]

26 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Not only that, she has three different configurations to potentially play with.

 

YES PLEASE

I will even take your entire stock!

[Thyaliad]

34 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Not only that, she has three different configurations to potentially play with. European Harekaze? Now we're talking!

Sounds like a fun Premium to have.

[S0und_Theif]

 Split as T7 tech tree.
Grey section / Eastern Bloc

[Not_Ch0m1n]

She looks like really Benson with C-hull 

[Mechfori]

She look totally awesome and that history, just so amazing

[Ashen_Sky]

7 hours ago, Work_ln_Progress said:

She looks like really Benson with C-hull 

Yep, from the 1st photo i thought it was a Benson sold to Yugoslavia, but then the single smokestack doesn't add up. It's a Jervis mated with Benson/Kidd?

[Grygus_Triss]

This is the type of premium we need in WoWS.

Interesting history with potential for gimmicks that don’t rewrite the book. Since the multi option is a gimmick in and of itself.

I’d like to see more of these ‘multi armament’ ships, like Harekaze and Mogami, as it allows for different play styles based on player’s preference.

[Project45_Opytny]

5 hours ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Yep, from the 1st photo i thought it was a Benson sold to Yugoslavia, but then the single smokestack doesn't add up. It's a Jervis mated with Benson/Kidd?

Yugoslavia did purchase 2 surplus British War Emergency Programme destroyers of the "W" subclass in 1956 and the two ships remained in service until 1971. Split herself was scrapped only in 1986 despite proposals to convert her into a museum ship or such, just a few years before the breakup of Yugoslavia which is another depressing tragedy.

Also as a guy with some *special* culture I am glad that someone has mentioned this extraordinary warship... besides her appearance in a certain game, despite her actual service is flat uneventful as a result of Yugoslav neutrality during the Cold War and the relative unimportance of their navy, her construction that spanned nearly 20 years reflected World War II, the Cold War and that eventful decade that changed not only Yugoslavia but also the entire Europe permanently, as well as the great efforts and determination of the post-war Yugoslav engineers and technicians to rebuild their navy to defend their home country from whatever accessible to them.

[Ashen_Sky]

Now with EU DD released and ships like Orkan exists, i hope this ship can be implemented as well. A Le Fantasque with British handling and torps, an Italian Z-23 vibes, and bastardized Kidd with signature EU DD sounds fun.

I also post this on r/WorldOfWarships , which met with typical reddit enthusiasm of indifference (yet they always preach about promoting historical ships and not russian BiAs). Say something about people there.

[Project45_Opytny]

Just now, Earl_of_Arland said:

Now with EU DD released and ships like Orkan exists, i hope this ship can be implemented as well. A Le Fantasque with British handling and torps, an Italian Z-23 vibes, and bastardized Kidd with signature EU DD sounds fun.

I also post this on r/WorldOfWarships , which met with typical reddit enthusiasm of indifference (yet they always preach about promoting historical ships and not russian BiAs). Say something about people there.

I offered this ship for the "Name a ship that you would like to see her implemented" (part of a May Golden Week event) in the Japanese section of this forum.

As so many people have already posted about a number of much more famous and attractive ships (Maya, Tone, Amatsukaze, Ayanami, Isuzu as CL-AA, HMS Malta, HMS Sirius, HMS Incomparable, USS Wyoming as AG-17, USS Consteallation CC-2, to name a few), I chose this ship as my submission from my "wish list".

[S4pp3R]

2 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

I offered this ship for the "Name a ship that you would like to see her implemented" (part of a May Golden Week event) in the Japanese section of this forum.

As so many people have already posted about a number of much more famous and attractive ships (Maya, Tone, Amatsukaze, Ayanami, Isuzu as CL-AA, HMS Malta, HMS Sirius, HMS Incomparable, USS Wyoming as AG-17, USS Consteallation CC-2, to name a few), I chose this ship as my submission from my "wish list".

Yes but we know how reddit has been completely swallowed by culte de flamu

[Thyaliad]

3 hours ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

I also post this on r/WorldOfWarships , which met with typical reddit enthusiasm of indifference (yet they always preach about promoting historical ships and not russian BiAs). Say something about people there.

I am guessing most of the WoWs Reddit users are from NA and EU, so perhaps they haven't woken up yet. Hopefully the EU players will be more enthusiastic.

3 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

I offered this ship for the "Name a ship that you would like to see her implemented" (part of a May Golden Week event) in the Japanese section of this forum.

As so many people have already posted about a number of much more famous and attractive ships (Maya, Tone, Amatsukaze, Ayanami, Isuzu as CL-AA, HMS Malta, HMS Sirius, HMS Incomparable, USS Wyoming as AG-17, USS Consteallation CC-2, to name a few), I chose this ship as my submission from my "wish list".

Good show!

[Ashen_Sky]

4 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

I offered this ship for the "Name a ship that you would like to see her implemented" (part of a May Golden Week event) in the Japanese section of this forum.

As so many people have already posted about a number of much more famous and attractive ships (Maya, Tone, Amatsukaze, Ayanami, Isuzu as CL-AA, HMS Malta, HMS Sirius, HMS Incomparable, USS Wyoming as AG-17, USS Consteallation CC-2, to name a few), I chose this ship as my submission from my "wish list".

Aye thanks for going the trouble of actually posting it there!_{i can't speak Japanese even though i have Japanese class help} Let's hope it makes through. TBH Split is much more reasonable gameplay wise compared to Incomparable (Ultimate glass cannon) while maintaining distinctiveness compared to likes of Ayanami (basically a copy of Fubuki, which we have 4 already), so i'm confident with the chance.

2 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

Yes but we know how reddit has been completely swallowed by culte de flamu

An echo chamber. Even this suggestion post on there is plagued by at least one Russian Bias, CV overly strong, or combination of both without me talking about it in my topic.

1 hour ago, Thyaliad said:

I am guessing most of the WoWs Reddit users are from NA and EU, so perhaps they haven't woken up yet. Hopefully the EU players will be more enthusiastic

That is reasonable reason, actually. My bad for timing it wrong.

[Project45_Opytny]

1 hour ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Aye thanks for going the trouble of actually posting it there!_{i can't speak Japanese even though i have Japanese class help} Let's hope it makes through. TBH Split is much more reasonable gameplay wise compared to Incomparable (Ultimate glass cannon) while maintaining distinctiveness compared to likes of Ayanami (basically a copy of Fubuki, which we have 4 already), so i'm confident with the chance.

In fact I cannot speak Japanese as well so after posting about the ship in plain, simple Japanese with the help of online translators I resorted to a more familiar language and hid the texts in English with spoiler.

My personal thoughts on some of the ideas posted...

You've already sumed up Split here. An unique warship with a life full of twists and turns which spawns three possible configurations. Also she can make the European faction even more diverse!

Malta, Akagi, Shinano, (and potentially "Saratoga 1930" with 203-mm rifles): WG has made the models of the latter three back to the days of Alpha testing, though the key is that the core of CV gimmicks and balancing is their aviation capablities/air groups. The same applies to Malta, though she has to be created from scratch.

Ayanami, Amatsukaze: I do understand their historical significance, however the key is that new gimmicks that are both fun and also would not break the game should be found to maintain distinctiveness. A similar case is the Verniy (ex-Hibiki), though that would be much simpler using Soviet plans to rearm this ship.

Sirius: Why not? Though her tiering can be debated as in fact the British 5.25-inch DP are so meh in game.

I would like to see a complete British battlecruiser branch: New Zealand, Princess Royal, Tiger, Renown or Admiral preliminary, Admiral-class, J3, G3 and a suitable choice. Also a French "regular destroyer" branch though currently I can only find Le Hardi and the T47-class. I would like to suggest make Incomparable a freemium out of the tech tree...

Timmerman (EDD-828) may be a potential T10 reward ship (a faster Gearing capable of 40+ knots thanks to her advanced, experimental propulsion), though this may be offensive to many casual players considering WG's current strategies (imagine Timmerman ends up in RB or steel)...

As someone has mentioned CL-AA Isuzu... HMS Delhi and Spanish cruiser Mendez Nunez? Though the viablity of such "lower-tier" CL-AA hasn't been proved yet.

I feel it is good to have a look at what a significant part of the player base is demanding by going through the post...

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

8 hours ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

I also post this on r/WorldOfWarships , which met with typical reddit enthusiasm of indifference (yet they always preach about promoting historical ships and not russian BiAs). Say something about people there.

WoWs Reddit is like a typical Walmart in the US of Eh

 

8 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

I offered this ship for the "Name a ship that you would like to see her implemented" (part of a May Golden Week event) in the Japanese section of this forum.

As so many people have already posted about a number of much more famous and attractive ships (Maya, Tone, Amatsukaze, Ayanami, Isuzu as CL-AA, HMS Malta, HMS Sirius, HMS Incomparable, USS Wyoming as AG-17, USS Consteallation CC-2, to name a few), I chose this ship as my submission from my "wish list".

Oh yes I also have submitted my idea there.

And unsurprisingly, there are not few who submit their idea because Azur Lane (Formidable, Sirius, etc.).

[Project45_Opytny]

Just now, Sir_Feather said:

WoWs Reddit is like a typical Walmart in the US of Eh

 

Oh yes I also have submitted my idea there.

And unsurprisingly, there are not few who submit their idea because Azur Lane (Formidable, Sirius, etc.).

Honestly speaking, even if we leave shipgirl/ship personification aside, the intention of introducing the Dido-class cruisers into WoWS' collection of warships is still fairly reasonable. And also Dido-class/Sirius has even already been modelled for WoWS Blitz, while there hasn't been a proper British premium CL for captain training.

[S4pp3R]

12 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Honestly speaking, even if we leave shipgirl/ship personification aside, the intention of introducing the Dido-class cruisers into WoWS' collection of warships is still fairly reasonable. And also Dido-class/Sirius has even already been modelled for WoWS Blitz, while there hasn't been a proper British premium CL for captain training.

There are many options too, if RN gets one, Commonwealth gets one...

I WILL FIGHT ANY WHO NAYSAY!!! 

On a serious note, Black Prince when?

Edit: better come with some sort of cool mutiny colours! Also yes, I want her as HMNZS...

[Mornar]

This is the one 🙂

[Project45_Opytny]

9 minutes ago, Mornar said:

This is the one 🙂

Well... there seems to exist some misunderstanding here.

Even though the French has applied much experience of building high-performance "super-destroyers" for Marine Nationale to this export project, there exist significant differences between JRM Split (even her original plan) and her French distant relatives.

Split has only funnel and uses the traditional "linear" machinery arrangement (the boilers and the turbines are placed together) at the request of the Yugoslavs (to provide better firing arcs for her AA guns) and she is significantly smaller than Le Fantasque. Her size is closer to Guepard, Aigle and Vauquelin.

[Mornar]

Ok, sorry, maybe I should have mentioned but I thought its obvious - This is just fan art replacement camo I did for myself in game and Le Fantasque was the closest looking to Split that I found. I am from those parts originally so I play few ships with yugoslav ensignia - FOR FUN. Ther are few ships being proposed from yugoslavia and since this thread is on that topic i thought some of you will find this amusing. So yes, maybe I misunderstood. 

[Ashen_Sky]

Here's the original schematic for Split

kinda hard to read, but if you look and compare to Le Fantasque's top view, it's fairly similar, other than the single smokestack and being shorter since she lacks wing torpedo tubes.

So yeah, good job! I suggest using Vauquelin, but then the superstructure looks weird. I really appreciate your dedication 

[Max_Battle]

Interesting story and interesting ship.

Would be a great inclusion to Europe line.

[Ashen_Sky]

7 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

Interesting story and interesting ship.

Would be a great inclusion to Europe line.

She is. Question is, what she would play like?

Split has British-built machinery, so no speed boost but great acceleration. Her original config called for 38 knots max speed, but after rebuilt limited to 32 knot ish. Either mounted five Skoda 140/127 mm with high velocity shells but slow reload, or four 5"/38 cal DP with floaty shells and fast reload. Big and heavy so not so great concealment but decent HP pool. Torpedoes? Smoke? Radar?

[dejiko_nyo]

For a moment I thought you were asking to split a non-existent line. Which I found very odd. Until I realised you were talking about the place in the Holy Empire of Marshall Tito.