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Rina_Pon

Gearing sucks now?

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Gearing was always a bit of a sidegrade to Fletcher: bigger, slower and clumsier - while the gains in return for that were questionable: some armor, better turret layout, higher dpm. Factoring the tier, I'm starting to think recently that it may be a flat out downgrade.

A few recent changes to the game has in my opinion made playing Gearing significantly harder than it once was.

1. In order to prevent T8 ships from seeing too many T10 games, the MM has been adjusted. T10 ships now see lots of 100% T10 matches.

2. In T10,  you have to deal with recent additionals i.e. Smolensk, Venezia as well as perennial threat Des Moines. Fair number of T10 CVs now, too.

3. You can be pummelled by any number of DDs now: Daring, Harugumo, Kleber. Nowhere close to the DPM alpha dog these days.

The USN DDs T8-10 have always been the "good at everything" meme. Good guns, good torps, good concealment, good AA, good smoke. For that payload to be effective, in a typical game, there has to be opportunities to make use of all those strengths. If you can't use your guns and your AA doesn't do much, and offensive smoke is anyway out of the question due to radar ... you might as well be playing a Shimakaze.

That's my case in a nutshell: Facing Smolensk, Italian cruisers, RADAR, and CV all you can really do as a DD is spot, cap, torp and stay well away from trouble. The opportunity to gun down enemy ships - the one thing Gearing is undeniably good at - almost never comes up. Open water gunboating is pretty much suicide. In that case, Shimakaze - faster, sneakier, more and better torps - is the better choice.

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Well Gearing has always been the typical "jack-of-all-trades" ship. And while you are not the best at anything, you have no major weaknesses either.

Unlike a Shimakaze, you not completely boned against a CV attack thanks to DFAA, nor are you dead the moment you get ambushed by another DD.

Unlike a Harugumo or Khaba you can do more than just pew pew all day. Plus you can still stealth torp, thus remaining a big threat even when your HP is low. And unlike the torp boats you can actually pose a threat to other DDs with your guns.

Imo the only ship that eclipses it is the Daring, and even then the Gearing has some advantages - long-lasting USN smoke and access to DFAA for better AA.

I believe the Gearing's jack-of-all-trades trait starts to shine in the mid-game when more opportunities open up. When the radar ships are killed or pushed back, the CV is busy elsewhere and the map has thinned out so the enemy DDs may not necessarily have the support of their team, that is time for the Gearing to shine. You can take the cap, stealth torp, farm damage from smoke or go DD hunting - whatever needs to be done to help the team win. It is a very flexible ship.

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Thanks for the advice. I guess I'm just bummed out after a series of terrible games last night, getting beaten up by a Daring was only the last of a string of insults and injuries suffered.

I don't find Shimakaze that much worse than Gearing against other DDs though. The guns are far from terrible at the ranges you typically fight at, and the concealment means you can choose your fights, picking only the ones you can win, naturally. Ditto CVs. Even with DFAA Gearings AA is not good enough to go solo against TX squadrons, ultimately you'll have to hide in smoke and Shima can do that just as well as Gearing can.

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Well, it has some of its roles being pushed out by the newer dds, which is standard power creep, but it is still a versatile all rounder. It is more flexible in regards to what type of game MM throws out at you rather than "you are completely screwed you chose the wrong ship for the lineup you got".

That said, I'm sad I'm not playing it more that I should: Shima with her CQC torpedo broadsides and Haru seem to eat into my DD time. Oddly, I play YY more for unknown reasons despite it being the inferior gearing. 

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Nah Gearing rarely blows up in the first 4 minutes after the game starts. Shimakaze on the other hand, always finds a way to get destroyed early even in non-CV and/or few radar games. Gearing can counter Daring easily even by just perma-spotting, and if the Daring hesitates to go all-out with the guns.

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3 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

Shimakaze on the other hand, always finds a way to get destroyed early even in non-CV and/or few radar games.

People keep lewding her nearly non-existent pantsu instead of concentrating. 

Seriously the mistakes people make using her are: 
1) Over estimating her concealment
2) Trying to get in close to unleash torpedo barrage
3) Forgetting that her although good alpha guns are completely shit in the RoF department.
4) Underestimating that she has been powercrept very much
5) N00Bs - My first DD program.

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2 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

People keep lewding her nearly non-existent pantsu instead of concentrating. 

Seriously the mistakes people make using her are: 
1) Over estimating her concealment
2) Trying to get in close to unleash torpedo barrage
3) Forgetting that her although good alpha guns are completely shit in the RoF department.
4) Underestimating that she has been powercrept very much
5) N00Bs - My first DD program.

Indeed. 

People are quick to dismiss Shimakaze and deem her as "trash", when clearly it's the player controlling the ship that's at fault. 

Noobs get attracted to Shima cuz "MUH 15 TORPS", and then proceed to play like in low tiers and gets rekt early in the match.

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4 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

People keep lewding her nearly non-existent pantsu instead of concentrating. 

Seriously the mistakes people make using her are: 
1) Over estimating her concealment
2) Trying to get in close to unleash torpedo barrage
3) Forgetting that her although good alpha guns are completely shit in the RoF department.
4) Underestimating that she has been powercrept very much
5) N00Bs - My first DD program.

6) Taking horrible positions to get ambushed even by the French DDs

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2 minutes ago, Ryuuoh_DeltaPlus said:

People are quick to dismiss Shimakaze and deem her as "trash", when clearly it's the player controlling the ship that's at fault. 

I used to frequently be the bloody shima player in CW because no one else had dds (and shima was the one I was best in and had a 19 point captain) and to play her effectively you basically had to remain stealthed and keep spotting for your team. And throw out long range torpedoes to dislodge island campers. If you got spotted by a gunboat, your best bet was to flee or if your team was ready, ambush it with huge firepower. Basically the job was to distract, spot and decoy. And oh yes, she no longer has the speed advantage. Practically all her strengths have been indirectly nerfed by newer lines.

With the increasing numbers of gunboats, her life is much more difficult. She needs her TRB.

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6 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

6) Taking horrible positions to get ambushed even by the French DDs

I think that is part of #5. Any sane veteran player would keep her moving instead of camping in smoke.

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Gearing is .. well .. OK .. its going from doing all thing good but not great to what its now .. doing all thing OK but not good .. and its not just the other line of DD but the OP Super Cruiser, Cruisers, BB, Long Range Hydro / Secondaries , Radar, Planes and all that play together .. pretty much the same for Shima .. She's going from having advantages to all hers taken away & now all she got is 20KM torp ( which is only good for scaring people off mostly )

And at current ranged meta , and all , pretty much all the old tech tree ships got inadvertently power-creeped , but DD are the worst affected cause DD are specialist ship that  require particular play and play style and had close to zero margin of error and now most of them are put into the game with specification that are specified to fail by default and one only survive and get a good game when play and play well when others can just casually sit, snipe and farm ad benefit from all the reward gleamed.

Its all too easy to get frustrated in a DD today, and especially in old tech tree DD ; DD as a class is mis-treated and play as pawn and offering so the big guns can had their fun and farm right now ( and of course CV )

Edited by Mechfori

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Playing a few more games in Benson, Fletcher, and Gearing, I've gotten back more into the swing of things. I've been playing the IJN line for too long, when I first jumped back to USN it was all like "oh, guns, ok lets shoot things!!" and was been far too optimistic on that front.

USN DDs, even Gearing or perhaps particularely Gearing, don't really do more in a game than the IJN top boats, most of the game is spotting and capping and torping. It's where and how they do those things that is the main difference. USN line works more closely with teammates. The defining move is the "one-two" set up and smash, a combo where you do one thing and your cruiser does the complimentary action and together you get the kill. Setting up those plays is a big part of Gearing success, as is making effective use of the 16 km torps, which, like Asashio, are best launched from deep in the map where you can get oblique sweeps through the back end of the cap zone where the enemy tends to cluster.

Gearing my be strong, but the enemy cruisers are stronger. You will die just as quickly as in any other DD if you mess up. The strengths are the tremendous reach of her torps, the combination of smoke and devstating gunpower, and a certain amount of enhanced survivability to light enemy DD fire.

Much like the USN CA line, though, the focus in on winning the games rather than raw damage output. Damage builds up over time in a good game, but its all the other things you do that really count towards the victory.

Edited by Rina_Pon

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4 hours ago, THAI_THIEF said:

Why don't ask Z-52? He's come for the same thing 

I would if I saw one, but I honestly can't remember the last time that was.

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well  put ; except its kind of hard to ask Cruiser to work with any DD these days and let's just say this game do not reward anything other than damage deal and every DD tactical play reward none or very very little while putting the boat in great danger ( and usually not help by team who would not support ) so long WG made it so the game stay in this state of ranged duel and not giving the DD proper Range ( hey only few had torp than can run like 16KM or longer reach and guns , well they don't reach out that far )  , Stealth, Speed ( only French DD really had speed advantage these days ) and not to mention the all faulted counter spotting mechanism , so long all these are kept, they play together to play against actually letting DD play.

Call me selfish or what but these days , NO I do not go out to spot, do not go out to screen and do not go out to scout, not doing it alone , not doing it unless and if and only if the teams guns actually support and I mean CLOSE support, fire suppression AA cover. DD are already penalized by not giving reward for al the deed need to be done, its now penalized by not given the mean to deal damage ( most of the time ) and burden with duty to get others the big juicy target to do their farming ... NO ... its just not fair. Victory is no longer my goal, my goal now for the most part is to survive that's what DD had from mid tier up and if I need to stay well out of the way ( and doing nothing ) to survive I will.

Gearing, Z-52, Shimakaze, pretty much almost all the high tier old tech tree DD are in similar boat so to speak , and now WG are saying they would yet nerf DD more in 0.9.1 ( and buff the CV and big guns yet even more ) cool they just asking DD and CL / CA players to not to play

Edited by Mechfori

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I had a nice, but frustrating Gearing game yesterday. Nice because it demonstrated the cooperative strength of DD-CA-CV teamplay. Frustrating because we still lost due to BB incompetence. 😕

In the first move, the enemy Harugumo smoked up at one end of the B cap, which I contest by moving into the opposite end. That's a stalemate since if I get spotted he will nuke me. However our CA pushes up and radars him, I immediately smoke up and shoot him with impunity. The combined fire soon takes him out.

In the second, late game move, the red team Daring was in a position to re-take the B cap. CV spots his approach. I move to counter, but I know he'll win if we get into a gun battle. So I take a little detour to lay smoke for my Smolensk (his had just ran out) and then rush the Daring head on. He went from happy to take the fight, to horrified as the wall of Smolensk HE hit, to dead, all in the space of about 30 seconds.

Despite several torp hits over the course of the match, I never got any dev strikes on the enemy BBs, which I suppose might have contributed to our loss. Still scored second on the team however.

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In terms of credit and experience reward, teamwork worths nearly nothing. Spotting? Capping? And taking protential damage? Doing all that instead of dealing damage may help a destoryer to win the game, but will also let it end up at the bottom of score list and lose money.

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Not entirely true, capping is well-rewarded. Winning is well-rewarded. The other things not so much, but then average damage in Gearing is about 50k. If you aren't pulling in at least that then a strategy re-think may be necessary.

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53 minutes ago, AnExtremelyWeakPlayer said:

In terms of credit and experience reward, teamwork worths nearly nothing. Spotting? Capping? And taking protential damage? Doing all that instead of dealing damage may help a destoryer to win the game, but will also let it end up at the bottom of score list and lose money.

unfortunately most of that is true ( the money losing part might be not that extreme ) , the other thing regarding these is that all these so call duties not only do not pay but also put the boat in serious danger of being killed ; and a dead DD not only do nothing , but likely will return yet less credit, less XP and certainly do not help at all

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A pretty typical Gearing game is 2-3 torp hits, 60k dmg, 80k spotting, 2 caps, 1 maybe 2 kills. The damage tally builds up bit by bit, there is very little drama or excitement since the aim is very much to stay out of harms way.  This, beleive it or not, will likely place you in the top 3 on your team. I struggle to do better than this, but at the same time barring a really awful early mistake, achieving that much just requires basic situational awareness and an abundence of caution.

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