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Rina_Pon

Final thoughts on the Xmas events

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I totally played as a filthy casual these last 30 days. I took one look at the PR grind, realized is wasn't for me, and didn't try for Gorizia even. Just enjoyed playing randoms and 1v1 ranked with a few of my favorite ships. Mostly DDs. I bought 1yr of premium time at 50% off (New Years special) and 4800 doubloons at 30% (anniversary coupon) and I think 2000 other doubloons (towards Shimakaze permanent camo).

Still, at the end of it I got quite a decent haul of "stuff":

* Lenin from free Xmas box, 10pt captain

* Exeter from free Xmas box, 10 pt captain

* Gorizia from completing directive 3, 6 pt captain (as I said above, this just ticked over naturally - I didn't try for it)

* tons of flags for getting to rank 5 in Lightning

* a smaller ton of flags for progressing partway through building Puerto Rico

* Halsey, for completing the campaign

* Shimakaze, Kitakaze, Iowa, Fiji, Lightning .... XP and FXP from Random games

* A smallish haul of flags for breezing through the Science of Victory campaign, which I'd never bothered with until now and can be done extremely quickly when you have a 3-year old account and a dozen or so T8-10 ships.

So this is how I feel about WG and the PR grind: On a personal level I don't really care. While the dockyard was cool and the partial rewards generous the progression mechanics could only be described as "opaque and manipulative".  I was not interested in the ship. As such, the PR grind just went off my radar, just like the Xmas lootboxes which I don't buy.

I was surprised how angry everyone got when they found out that grinding PR for free would be very difficult. I never got through the PEF or Benham grind for example. Even Siroco was excessive ... no way would I expect to get a T10 ship playing the way I normally do. Moreoever there were plenty of ways you could get Puerto Rico if you really wanted without playing 6h a day for a month, for not an excessive cost. And a couple of ways for an excessive cost. Plenty of reports now of people who got the ship after only moderate grind by buying Gorizia up front for doubloon compensation and/or paying for 1-2 boosters.

I guess what really ticked people off was Wargaming telling them they couldn't get something while simultaneously telling them the something they couldn't get was something they really, really wanted. People look forward to the Xmas event as something everyone has a chance of getting, its the inclusivity of the event which is in the spirit of the season. WG this year broke with that by building up the PR event as this main event instead of a Whale-only hardcore extra bonus round. Gorizia - a T7 cruiser that would in any other time have been considered a pretty good reward and was generously given away for very little commitment, got completely lost in the blast of negativity surrounding PR. 

 

 

 

Edited by Rina_Pon
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I always enjoy the santa crates and snowflakes. I came out of the Christmas events way ahead profiting by 400%.  (8 ships, 12k Doubs,  12.5k coal, lots of camos and lots of special signals) but I am in a position where I can take the risk on the gamble and wont notice it but there are plenty of people out there where the purchase of these crates is a significant portion of their income so that why I put a disclaimer on my winnings post about people who may need help with gambling.  It was also noticeable that over the years the Santa crates have lowered in standard and same with the snowflake event.

PR event and directives.   Horrid.  I was never going to be in a position to get a PR so I made the wise decision at the start not to chase it.    While I applaud anyone who actually played for it I have to wonder how they now feel about that time that was lost in real life.  More to the point the response from WG and their inability to show any flexibility towards a player base makes me sad for the future of not only this game but of all the others that now put profit before player satisfaction.

One thing would have appeased the community and that was to not time gate the PR.  I await the salty threads on the forums and Reddit in 2 days from the players that just missed out.

 

One thing I was really happy about was that I would run my personal Christmas giveaway for the third year now and give the players community back something. 

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Gotten stalingrad,  i managed to regrind my line 😛 left 2-3 more season to getting ohio 

 

I already knew PR is grindy beforehand but not these absurd level of grind, so i took a break from this game 

Looking at People completing the ohio directives in 93hr- 104hr, mad respect for them  to be so dedicated 

 

Snowflake: Best thing wargaming gives to the player altho they reduced the steel but still love it

 

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3 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

I was surprised how angry everyone got when they found out that grinding PR for free would be very difficult.

I guess what really ticked people off was Wargaming telling them they couldn't get something while simultaneously telling them the something they couldn't get was something they really, really wanted.

It wasn't the excessive grind that made most people angry.  It wasn't that WG told them they couldn't get something they really wanted.  The particularly offensive part, and the part that has made many people angry, is the deception involved.  WG intentionally made a deceptive system, one designed to use behavioural psychology techniques to attempt to draw more money out of players than they intended to spend.  The system was designed to draw you into spending money as early as possible before you had a full understanding of what you were taking on, and then when you realised you weren't going to make the grind, to pull more money out of you towards the end.  This is a totally unacceptable way of monetising your product.  WG can make an attractive product that people want to spend plenty of money on without resorting to these tactics.

These are terrible business practices, and a highly concerning direction for what is otherwise a very good game.  I can only hope that the lesson that WG take from this is that it is not an appropriate way of monetising their game.  We shall see.

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Events and prize drops very lackluster. Previous year was so much better. All the changes in 2019 were under par and fell short of the expectations. Last year was a fail. Whether they learn from that or continue doing the same thing we are yet to see. Subs will also be another fail, just like CVs. We all know this and when the time comes and there in-game most people like the CVs will hate them and the same thing will be happening over and over. This game is meant to be about fun, enjoyment, educating and entertaining people and players in Ships and Naval history. Not this grind that is required that is so unhealthy for all involved. Its crazy that the people behind this has allowed the game to stray soooo way off course that so many players are leaving or cutting back on Battles and not spending. This is what they wanted to give US......................................... and this is what we will give THEM..............................

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I also found xmas boxes very weak.

from over 200 AUD I got an Exeter and a Warspite, yet to play them and doubt I ever will. Yes I was enticed by their advertising of the rarer ships Belfast, Missouri and whatever the russian cruiser is etc..

So the advertising did its job for sales, but the follow through just let me down. WG are quite professional at that.

They say not to hope for a ship but seriously WG, a tier 5 and 6 when you already mine my account for information and data, and you KNOW I don't play lower tiers!!.

The rng is set up to fail. For me anyway.

I already lost any hope of ever getting a ship out of ingame crates.

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5 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

The particularly offensive part, and the part that has made many people angry, is the deception involved.

Is it deceptive if you know it's deceptive?

The way it was laid was complicated (in that distinctly Russian mathmatical way) but was it really out to trick people? Call me crazy but I'm willing to give WG the benefit of the doubt - I don't think it was intended to be more deceptive than any of their previous events, it just got that way because WG didn'T realize, when they came up with the idea, that most players wouldn't understand the structure of the new format.

The event was a variable rate countdown timer. You could only get the ship if you could get the timer down to X within a certain timeframe. If you did nothing, you wouldn't get to that goal, but the timer could be sped up to different degrees by paying money or doing missions and directives. In various combinations of work and money, you would get the TX premium ship. You could buy the ship outright (at an inflated price). If you got close to reaching the goal you were given a discount which brought it down to what it might be reasonably be worth. In point of fact, and considering that a TX premium is "worth" (in the game economy) over $100 US,  the combination about $60-70 and a normal amount of gameplay over the month spaning Dec 16 - Jan 16 would get you the ship ... at something of a discount.

Looking at it for what it was, obviously the nastiest aspect was having to buy boosters on the expectation of being able to finish ... without having a clear idea of how much work would still be involved. The second was the "sunk cost fallacy" of asking 15000 doubloons for the "half finished" ship, which might have been addition to the player already having bought boosters. i.e. after all's said and done, the player would still be paying in excess of the ships value above and beyond having to have put in the work on directives.

Personally my biggest gripe was WG "bundling" the PR with a ton of boxes and flags which in their mind works out to equal to the ships value. So the ship costs $125, but the partial grind boxes are "worth" $125 too, which is why the ship costs $250 outright, and all the milestones and grinds and boosters are priced on that basis.

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Xmas 2018 & New Year 2019 were much better in all aspects.

- Directives (for PEF) were sane/doable, although they were still tedious without premium account. But all missions were doable in Scenario which made them easier to complete.

- More additional permanent "free" rewards: 4 perma camo for Hatsuharu/Icarus/Dallas/Normandie, plus an alternative camo for PEF. The only additional permanent "free" rewards in New Year 2020 are: Gorizia (I don't consider this ship to be permanent because anyone who gets it can sell it), plus 3 "un-linked" camo for T8 ships (4 if you actually can finish the 950k exp mission at Directive 4).

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24 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

TL;DR

The simplest way to have done things is to do what they have done in the past: put the ship in the premium shop and as a grind. DoY, PEF were exactly that. The useless gorilla instead was given that role and nobody wanted to buy it save those that needed it for the PR grind.

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11 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

Is it deceptive if you know it's deceptive?

Hang on - just because we know it's deceptive now doesn't mean that we knew when it was actually important!

When the patch dropped, you were pressured to buy the boosters before the event started or you would miss out on points due to points accruing over the event from when a booster was purchased.  This sense of urgency would have led many to buy boosters before they understood what they were getting themselves in for.  Once a player realised what they had signed up for, it was too late - some would have known they would never possibly complete the grind, and felt the need to spend even more doubloons to complete the ship.  Others would have thought they could do it, but then get to the end and realise all their hard work is now worthless unless they spent more money.  These are deceptive techniques based on behavioural psychology intended to draw more money out of people than they would have otherwise spent.  It's an abhorrent business practice.

27 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

The way it was laid was complicated (in that distinctly Russian mathmatical way) but was it really out to trick people? Call me crazy but I'm willing to give WG the benefit of the doubt - I don't think it was intended to be more deceptive than any of their previous events, it just got that way because WG didn'T realize, when they came up with the idea, that most players wouldn't understand the structure of the new format. 

Yes, it was absolutely designed to trick people.  I'm normally more than happy to defend WG, and give them the benefit of the doubt on things we aren't too sure about.  There is no doubt here - this event was perfectly and intentionally designed to deceive people.  There is absolutely no way that they set up an event perfectly in line with these techniques because they "didn't realise".  There are teams within WG who have the specific job of monetising the game in such a way as to make as much money as possible.  In the past they've mostly done that through making an attractive product (and then charging plenty of money for it!), but increasingly this year, and particularly in this event, they have crossed the line into what is basically an attempt to take advantage of (ie con) their customers. 

Do you think this is just an unintentional mistake on WG's part?  "Oops, we meant to set up an easy to understand system, but it seems we accidentally forgot to correct all the CC vids making PR look easy to get, based the patch notes around the PR and directly stated it was simple to get for free, made the math to work out if you'd complete the event successfully so complicated that no two player made spreadsheets agreed on what was required, made it so that you had to spend as early as possible to get all the points value for your money before you had time to work out how the event worked, and made it very expensive for players who managed to not quite complete the event but had already put in lots of time and money thus perfectly taking advantage of FOMO and the sunken cost fallacy. Sorry about that, we totally thought we made it really simple and straight forward!"

Seriously, come on...

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Well, you know what most funny shit about it was the ads - 

in Dockyard Rules video they clumsily "Blurred" the Doublon cost for booster, as If they dont want Player to see what single booster cost 🤣

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Probably the best part of this Update, for me, is that I got premium time active for the entire Update. 11 days bought with Italian tokens, and the rest from Santa crates, redeeming codes and rewards for other stuffs (including Shipbuilding).

Still haven't got enough Steel for even the Flint, but I will hoard all my "freemium" resources and wait until something German (not CVs) come out! :Smile-angry:

 

The reason why Puerto Rico grind is called "the PR PR disaster" because it has always been false advertisement. WG's article about the grind used to highlight the "fact" that you can complete Puerto Rico for free, but blatantly ignored how much of a time crunch it is (though they do state that you have to complete everything that grants Shipbuilding tokens). And they also said that Gorizia is like a small reward along the way, instead of something players who have no time should focus on.

Things were kinda cooling down a bit, but then Sub_Oct poured 80% vodka into the fire and said something like "it's easier than PEF grind!" and that WG/Lesta CEO said "the Shipbuilding was made for people with illnesses" (I don't remember the exact quote, and it was in Russian). Yeah, I don't understand Russian philosophy either.

I know it WILL be a difficult grind - a T10 after all, but the actual process is stupidly difficult, AND time gated. I got Gorizia and 3 of the T8 New Year camos. That's all for me.

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1 hour ago, Moggytwo said:

Hang on - just because we know it's deceptive now doesn't mean that we knew when it was actually important!

When the patch dropped, you were pressured to buy the boosters before the event started or you would miss out on points due to points accruing over the event from when a booster was purchased.  This sense of urgency would have led many to buy boosters before they understood what they were getting themselves in for.  Once a player realised what they had signed up for, it was too late - some would have known they would never possibly complete the grind, and felt the need to spend even more doubloons to complete the ship.  Others would have thought they could do it, but then get to the end and realise all their hard work is now worthless unless they spent more money.  These are deceptive techniques based on behavioural psychology intended to draw more money out of people than they would have otherwise spent.  It's an abhorrent business practice.

Agreed. This is made all the more deceptive as WG did not even provide upfront detailed info regarding what you had to grind and how many dub boosters you needed to buy in order to guarantee getting PR, based on how many of those crazy directives you thought you could realistically complete given the time you could afford to invest. At least before you succumbed to DVT from all the days sitting playing WOWS for this insane PR grind that is. :cap_fainting:

WG also never corrected the CCs who were showing off the dockyard in PTS on youtube, that the PTS values for booster cost and directives difficulty were all different from the release version. When the patch released there were good people who had tried to do the maths of getting PR for the player base to explain it all when WG still had not. However many players had already bought boosters for dubs, as you say, under pressure to get in early. 

Remember though, WG has players health high on their list of concerns. Health of their players wallets more like. :Smile_coin:

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The grind is like a sickness you have. When your face is to a screen like a minimum of 4hrs a day and can be over 10hrs in a game p/day. So addictive that you wont get up to go eat or bathroom. This is what they mean and the very concern of peoples health. Any game that even allows you or even encourages that sort of commitment should be put out to be hung by the neck. So all can see. Dont get caught up in all the hype and glamour of this digital content. At the end of the day its just a game. They will come and go.

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None of my Clan Members are happy with the grind, the ship/s, the marketing etc.  Do any of you kids remember "Blip-Verts"?  It might be before your time, for us oldies, just remember what misuse of Max Headroom did to people watching blip-verts...its kinda like this grind...Happy New Year All

 

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I wasn't interested in the PR at all, but I have that ship in my port now.

I recall reading the directive tasks, possibly before the directives opened, or the day they opened and thinking, nah - that's brutally impossible. I only decided to go for the PR on the 23rd December which is when I dropped the 3 gold boosters using doubloons I had received in the xmas crates (plus 12,500 I bought in the admirals pack that has 30 days premium time). I only bothered because I had already completed the first 2 directive easily with plenty of time to spare (and I had absorbed the data that WG divulged regarding the grind), admittedly that information only came out after the anger exploded. I finished the 3rd directive in 3 days, but still haven't completed the 4th directive. I'm persevering with that still for the "free" port slot (I have 7000 base XP to go with the UK line. Hopefully I still have tomorrow available to get that done.

My initial plan, before the PR build even started was to buy the mega pack that included Gorizia with the 40 mega santa crates as my xmas present to myself. As I said, the Puerto Rico was not even in my plans for the holidays at all. Well, short story is, I got 8 good ships from that initial batch of xmas crates. So I bought another batch of xmas crates. I have a bit of cash stashed for my hobbies, and pixel boats is one of them.

I wasn't here for previous xmas events, so have no measure on previous crate generosity. I am quite satisfied I got value for money in the xmas crates I bought, which includes a number of decent ships including 5 of the rare ships. Nikolai Imperator, Gremyaschy, Belfast, Kutuzov and Musashi. 

The only thing I did not get in the xmas crates was premium time. Sometimes I think WG trolls us. I have been buying premium time 30 days at a time since July. My son, who only sporadically plays ships got over 400 days premium time in his xmas crates. I therefor took advantage of the 50% offer on the weekend and bought 360 days with cash.

 

My point is, ones perspective makes a difference with these type of events. I'm just a little surprised so many people seemingly failed to read the directive tasks before committing cash money to the Puerto Rico event.

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On 1/13/2020 at 6:50 PM, lunsmann said:

I'm just a little surprised so many people seemingly failed to read the directive tasks before committing cash money to the Puerto Rico event. 

Same here. One quick glance through the later Directives was enough to tell that there was no way I was getting the Puerto Rico without putting down doubloons and doing some hard grinding.

Though admittedly the whole Dockyard thing was extremely convoluted, with the points per minute thing being designed specifically to pressure people to spend money. It doesn't help that Premium boosters and the end of construction and the end of the entire event all had different timings, again to pressure people to spend money.

If WG had been upfront that the Puerto Rico was designed for the whales and the hardcore players in mind, and presented all their information and spreadsheets way before the event began, there would have been far less outrage. I am very sure people would be happy to spend 24,000 or 14,000 doubloons for a Tier 10 Premium and other assorted knick knacks (including a Premium Tier 7) if they knew what they were getting into. But alas, they got greedy and instead tried to swindle money out of the weak-willed and uninformed players.

It is a pity, because at its core the PR event is simply a Premium ship bundle with multiple price points, depending on the player's preference. You can:

1) Buy the ship instantly with lots of money while doing nothing (24,000 doubloons with 3 boosters + 35,000 for instant completion)

2) Spend money and a little time  (24,000 doubloons with 3 boosters)

3) Spend some money and time (14,000 doubloons with 2 boosters)

4) Spend a little money but lots of time (6,000 doubloons with 1 booster)

5) Spend no money but ridiculous amounts of time (and some sanity)

I figure most people would go for 2 or 3, with the some unicums attempting 4. But those are the main choices, there are other minor variations such as:

a) Buy 3 doubloon boosters, do nothing, get to Phase 24 and pay to complete construction at the end (49,000 doubloons)

b) Buy 3 doubloon boosters, spend a little time to get to Phase 30 and pay to complete construction at the end (39,000 doubloons)

c) Spend some time to get to Phase 18, then pay to complete construction (35,000 doubloons)

d) Spend more time to get to Phase 24, then pay to complete construction (25,000 doubloons)

e) Spend a lot of time to get to Phase 30, then pay to complete construction (15,000 doubloons)

f) Any other variation of doubloon boosters and time

Which to me is actually not a bad idea. Don't think the PR is worth 24k doubloons? Then go for the 14k option. Value your money more than your time? Then go for 6k option. None of the options look good? Then don't bother, just play normally and get whatever free stuff you can from completing the phases.

But unfortunately WG did not make clear on just how much time an average person might need, or when are the cutoff times for all these variations until the outrage already started. They gave us their recommendations and their spreadsheets, but by then outrage had already done the damage.

I have said this before, but with how complicated the whole PR shipbuilding process was, WG should have developed some small calendar or schedule widget for people to play around with. Then people can better plan their own timetables and monitor their progress. If buyers can make informed decisions, then they will not make hasty purchases which they will come to regret later. And if a customer is regretful, then they will be a lot more wary about spending money in future. Swindling money out of people will make more money in the short run, but will cause more buyer's regret which will affect earnings in the long run. A happy customer is a repeat customer after all.

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Anything good about this event was thrown away and overshadowed by:

1. The handling of the Puerto Rico disaster.

2. The "double down" on the insane grind.

3. The CEO's unprofessional forum post.

4. iEarlGrey's unflavored trollish tweet.

 

All the following hard work went down the drain and was overshadowed because of the 4 reasons mentioned above:

01. The Dockyard

02. The Log Book

03. The 2020 Collection

04. 1 v 1 Ranked Sprint

05. Clan Brawl

06. The soft jingles music in the tech tree section

07. Coupons and Coupon Refresh

08. Minor Discounts

09. Christmas Charity Stream

10. Leander Camo

11. Gorizia

12. Gunther Lutjens

13. New York festive port

14. Snowflake rewards

15. Anyone who got good rewards on the SC (Super Container and / or Santa Crates)

 

For the devs, great job on the 2020 event. The sounds, the visual, the concepts, the models, etc.

For the people and management responsible for the event disaster, take responsbility and own it.

Edited by S0und_Theif
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Purchased over 40-50 big santa boxes and he is a total drunk "ho ho ho" flag waving c***.

Got 3 premiums tier 5-6-7 that I will never use 8k gold plus tons of flags. 

So I deleted all my linked payment methods and won't be adding them again.

On a side note due to pure rage I got the PR using tier 5,6,7 and 2 tier 8s, thankfully I had the black mass and assisho from black friday but wtf. 

 

 

PuretoRico.png

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10 hours ago, Amarutu said:

 

PuretoRico.png

My condolences. Seriously, that IS such a frustrating sight to see. 2 points away from a ship.

Can you get WG support on this? This is so unfair.

Edited by Paladinum

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lol i pulled two ships from the crates the Krapsky kerme and the Huangmeh, but other than that i pulled enough coal to get Georgia and that thing is fantastic. Other than that the event was garbage even if i ignored the Peurto Rico and just did the missions for the rewards that's another one of the things that annoyed the hell out of me, the rewards where bloody nothing one flag one ship crate. if the only nice thing i can say about the event is that the over priced loot crates where the best part you know something is wrong. 

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With the way the santa crates worked this xmas for ship drops it was actually an advantage for me. I had a lot of premium's so my chances increased for getting the hard to get ships. 

I got a few other ships and other stuff but my main task of getting the hard ships succeeded. Missouri, Exeter, Mikhail Kutuzov and Imperator Nikolai are now in my port.

 

 

Edited by Griefmaker

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10 hours ago, Amarutu said:

PuretoRico.png

Literally a second too late in getting the PR.

Edit:

My mistake. Actually he did get the PR.

Edited by Thyaliad

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Actually. That image tells me Amarutu got the PR with 9 hours still on the clock.

Look at the image, he took the screen shot 2 ticks before completing the ship, with the timer showing 8 hours, 59 minutes and 46 seconds.

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It was a relatively good haul from the large amount of Santa crates purchased ;

- Received 6 ships from Tier V to Tier IX (Five will never leave port)

- Enough doubloons to buy the boosters to be able to grind (in co-op mode only) and receive the PR - (Which will also never leave port.....)

- A ton load of signals (regular and special), camo's, Free XP and coal, and enough Premium time to last me a good while.

Also passed the 600 million credit and 13 million Free XP marks as well.

 

Looking forward to what Santa brings next year.....

 

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