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Sputnik2015

Carriers ruin the game

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Have you ever been in a battle where your carrier doesn't spot, doesn't provide air cover and you are consistently barraged by rocket, torpedo and bombing attacks? This has become the reality for me playing WoWs. If you have a competent carrier player who supports the team then all good, but too many times this game is ruined by noob cv skippers who play for themselves and doom the team to defeat. I've tried stacking my configuration to anti-aircraft builds, but regular plane spotting leading to annihilation from ships is also a problem. Last year's changes to carriers seem to have made the problem worse as more people play carriers, most often badly. Is there a way to sort this, where the influence of carriers is diminished? I want to have fun playing this game again, rather than get pissed off because our carrier is targeting a battleship up the back, while ignoring the destroyers and planes that are decimating our fleet.

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Carriers have too much influence on the game. If there is a marked skill difference between the two CV players, then the battle is already strongly unbalanced. This does not happen with other ship classes.

Carriers have also made DD playing much worse. Having 2 or 3 carriers per team at lower tiers often means that using a DD is almost a waste of time.

I understand that too many DDs are bad for battleship players, but good cruiser players should be helping. Along with radar cruisers, carriers make it harder and harder to be a useful DD player, especially for a zone bully like a German DD. As a DD player I've been 'noob' bashed in the chat for not moving forward enough in zones. However every time I do so I get hammered by radar and planes. I have to wait a few minutes to see if any radar cruisers are nearby and then use up my precious smoke on evading planes.

This is part of the reason we see so many Shimakazes in high tier battles. DD's have been reduced to long distance torp machines.

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50 minutes ago, Sputnik2015 said:

s. If you have a competent carrier player who supports the team then all good, but too many times this game is ruined by noob cv skippers who play for themselves and doom the team to defeat. 

First of all, after CV rework CV no longer be able to protect team effectively. A good CV player is HARMFULL to the game because it cannt protect or support team BUT ABLE TO DISH OUT FOR MAX DAMAGE. A battle between both noob CV player is actually better compared battle with unicum againts unicum.

Player with Winrate above 49% should be banned playing CV

 

55 minutes ago, Sputnik2015 said:

 

I've tried stacking my configuration to anti-aircraft builds, but regular plane spotting leading to annihilation from ships is also a problem.

AA build is currently nerfed by WG, except BFT, the other commander AA skill turn into crap. Even Massive AA fire skill IS REDUCING your OWN AA. Current AFT is total bullsheet.

 

______________

The problem with CV is....

When I ask BUFF for IJN AP dive bomber...

 

They buff Rocket instead.....

Yes... A ROCKET now become too accurate and damaging after recent patch.

A single attack can did 8K damage at T8. For a DD this is basically worst than radar... or being spotted all the time

 

49 minutes ago, stiffilicious said:

Carriers have too much influence on the game. If there is a marked skill difference between the two CV players, then the battle is already strongly unbalanced. This does not happen with other ship classes.

I am just correcting this, any other class with far gap of skill will obviously make the game unbalanced, and accurate Georgia REKT the entire enemy team... And battle with DD decide who win who lose.

 

The biggest problem of current CV is IT CANNOT PROTECT ITS OWN TEAM. that is why people feel more attack from CV than before rework.

 

53 minutes ago, stiffilicious said:

 

I understand that too many DDs are bad for battleship players, but good cruiser players should be helping. Along with radar cruisers, carriers make it harder and harder to be a useful DD player, especially for a zone bully like a German DD. As a DD player I've been 'noob' bashed in the chat for not moving forward enough in zones. However every time I do so I get hammered by radar and planes.

I am playing French DD, spotted all the time.... Radar was useless againts me.

CV Spot is useless againts me too...

 

Here is the problem :

one rocket strike DEAL 5K-8K damage for each strike.... That is basically 25% to 50% of my HP!

 

i have 15.7km range.... Staying Near Ally Cruiser and BB.... The rocket still Nuke me!!

 

WASD MY ASS.... Anyone know you are dead when CV strike you.....

 

and AA BUILD WAS TOO CRAP

 

Any other DD? Do you think smoke help? They are DEAD EVEN FASTER !

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Obviously I won't ever on pvp because MM pissed me off 

stick with robot team than real human team

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3 hours ago, THAI_THIEF said:

Obviously I won't ever on pvp because MM pissed me off 

stick with robot team than real human team

Same here mate.

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5 hours ago, Sputnik2015 said:

Have you ever been in a battle where your carrier doesn't spot, doesn't provide air cover and you are consistently barraged by rocket, torpedo and bombing attacks? This has become the reality for me playing WoWs. If you have a competent carrier player who supports the team then all good, but too many times this game is ruined by noob cv skippers who play for themselves and doom the team to defeat.

I've seen a lot of Shimakaze players that doomed their team by their absolute stupidity. Even in non-CV games, they still get killed in questionable ways. Most of them pop smoke and sit still when enemy DDs spot them, and then get torped to death which leave the entire flank blind for the rest of the match.

But that's ok, my Kitakaze feeds on their stupidity:Smile_trollface:

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5 hours ago, Sputnik2015 said:

Have you ever been in a battle where your carrier doesn't spot, doesn't provide air cover and you are consistently barraged by rocket, torpedo and bombing attacks? This has become the reality for me playing WoWs. If you have a competent carrier player who supports the team then all good, but too many times this game is ruined by noob cv skippers who play for themselves and doom the team to defeat.

And I have been in plenty of non-CV games where our scrub DD players doom the team to defeat because of their bad play. They don't contest the caps at all, do not spot, do not screen the fleet against enemy DDs and torps. Instead they just sail around in circles together with the cruisers and BBs. Or they go wide around the map by themselves in order to farm damage off enemy BBs in the back. Then they get spotted and killed easily because they were all by themselves deep in enemy territory.

Then there are some that get themselves killed in extremely ridiculous ways. Worse still are the DDs that sail forward, pop smoke and sit still in their smoke, effectively blinding their own team. Then they get torped by another DD because they were sitting still in their smoke. Then the team has no spotting, no anti-torp screen, no torp threat of their own to stop a push, and suddenly the flank is lost. All because that DD player on the flank is a noob.

Fact of the matter is this is not a problem exclusive to CVs. Selfish players will be selfish, and bad players will be bad.

The thing is ever since after the rework CVs can only play a limited role in protecting the fleet. Now the onus is on the surface ships to protect themselves first, with the CV providing backup protection second. And that means not sailing by yourself with no AA support.  A group or 3-4 ships is enough to deter an enemy CV from striking, or cost them dearly in planes. If there are good AA ships like Minotaur that group can be even smaller. The friendly CV is just there to plug up gaps in the AA defence network. It is neither useful nor efficient for a friendly CV to send planes halfway across the map to drop fighters on a lone ship, especially if that ship is not being useful to the team.

For good or for bad, the rework really curtailed the influence of CVs. They don't have the direct influence to stop strikes cold, only delay them or zone enemy planes. They can provide spotting, but it is non-consistent because CVs can only spot whatever they decide to attack. The main use of CVs is do damage and act as quick response force.

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13 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

And I have been in plenty of non-CV games where our scrub DD players doom the team to defeat because of their bad play. They don't contest the caps at all, do not spot, do not screen the fleet against enemy DDs and torps. Instead they just sail around in circles together with the cruisers and BBs. Or they go wide around the map by themselves in order to farm damage off enemy BBs in the back. Then they get spotted and killed easily because they were all by themselves deep in enemy territory.

Then there are some that get themselves killed in extremely ridiculous ways. Worse still are the DDs that sail forward, pop smoke and sit still in their smoke, effectively blinding their own team. Then they get torped by another DD because they were sitting still in their smoke. Then the team has no spotting, no anti-torp screen, no torp threat of their own to stop a push, and suddenly the flank is lost. All because that DD player on the flank is a noob.

Fact of the matter is this is not a problem exclusive to CVs. Selfish players will be selfish, and bad players will be bad.

The thing is ever since after the rework CVs can only play a limited role in protecting the fleet. Now the onus is on the surface ships to protect themselves first, with the CV providing backup protection second. And that means not sailing by yourself with no AA support.  A group or 3-4 ships is enough to deter an enemy CV from striking, or cost them dearly in planes. If there are good AA ships like Minotaur that group can be even smaller. The friendly CV is just there to plug up gaps in the AA defence network. It is neither useful nor efficient for a friendly CV to send planes halfway across the map to drop fighters on a lone ship, especially if that ship is not being useful to the team.

For good or for bad, the rework really curtailed the influence of CVs. They don't have the direct influence to stop strikes cold, only delay them or zone enemy planes. They can provide spotting, but it is non-consistent because CVs can only spot whatever they decide to attack. The main use of CVs is do damage and act as quick response force.

^ This.

In addition, the "purpose of cv "rework"" was to "close the skill gap". Still there. In regards to this, what it effectively did was to remove your CAP because skilled players were effective in using their fighters. Instead of fixing the root of the problem, wg went for the symptom instead. If wg was running a hospital, they'd have a lot of deaths. Fortunately they are not. It is like a fungal infection on a foot, you can treat it with antifungals, Instead, if Dr. wg was treating, the whole leg would have been cut off instead. The point is the root of the problem is not the CV itself; it is the player and the skill problems should have been addressed in MM, which in all accounts should have been much easier to do and implement AND ESPECIALLY USE THOSE GODDAMN SPREADSHEETS THEY LOVE. Instead, choose the amputate leg and harder to implement option.

So now a CV has become a glorified BB. And with the game's penchant for "rewarding damage/kills" of course the only way to score is to cause damage. Why should a CV forgo damage/kills if it does not benefit them? It is the same with that BB sitting at the back farming instead of pushing with his team. It is the same with that DD that does not scout/cap/screen. It is the same with that cruiser that hides instead of hunts. 

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Thanks for your interesting thoughts.

I play mostly BB and do not stick up the back (within reason of course). When I play CVs and DDs I spot and support the team, as well as getting kills. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that "selfish players will be selfish"- very frustrating. WoWs relies on teamwork to get the win. Sadly, many games and indeed the media itself promote an egocentric/opportunistic lifestyle. I just hate being a bb under constant air barrage, while the CV is doing something stupid.

I did play an amazing game recently where a Midway supported the team, plus got 6 kills and the win. We got chatting and I complimented him on his game style. He's proof that teamwork and kills are not mutually exclusive. He was a nice guy too.

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10 hours ago, Sputnik2015 said:

and you are consistently barraged by rocket, torpedo and bombing attacks?

If you are consistently being attacked by a CV then this is generally a positioning problem on your part.

CV captains are reasonably predictable - if they see what they think is a vulnerable ship they will attack it and keep attacking it for as long as it is in a vulnerable position, or until a better or more important target becomes apparent.  Position well, and CV's are generally nothing more than an occasional annoyance.

Also with regard to skill gap, CV players now have about the same amount of battle influence as any other class.  To be more specific, they are pretty close to cruiser influence, less than the most influential class which is DD's, and more than the least influential class which is BB's.  This is a massive improvement from the huge battle influence of RTS CV's.

 

3 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Instead of fixing the root of the problem, wg went for the symptom instead.

I disagree.  The skill gap was due to one CV captain being able to dominate the fighter battle and render the opposing CV relatively impotent.  The reason they could dominate the fighter battle was due to the strafe function, which was the root of the skill gap issue.  Thus they did address the root of the problem by removing the strafe function, and further to that they removed controllable fighters as well.  Now CV's have limited influence over their opponent (but still some influence when well played), and the game is much better for it.

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1 hour ago, Moggytwo said:

If you are consistently being attacked by a CV then this is generally a positioning problem on your part.

CV captains are reasonably predictable - if they see what they think is a vulnerable ship they will attack it and keep attacking it for as long as it is in a vulnerable position, or until a better or more important target becomes apparent.  Position well, and CV's are generally nothing more than an occasional annoyance.

Also with regard to skill gap, CV players now have about the same amount of battle influence as any other class.  To be more specific, they are pretty close to cruiser influence, less than the most influential class which is DD's, and more than the least influential class which is BB's.  This is a massive improvement from the huge battle influence of RTS CV's.

 

I disagree.  The skill gap was due to one CV captain being able to dominate the fighter battle and render the opposing CV relatively impotent.  The reason they could dominate the fighter battle was due to the strafe function, which was the root of the skill gap issue.  Thus they did address the root of the problem by removing the strafe function, and further to that they removed controllable fighters as well.  Now CV's have limited influence over their opponent (but still some influence when well played), and the game is much better for it.

Its true CV influence went down.... The skill gap become lesser.....

 

But the last problem remain, its too damaging againts DD. NO COUNTER

 

4K-8K damage each attack wasnt funny...... Its T8, not counting the T10

 

Smoke? 

Its not easy but firing blind to smoke is doable. And its hit.... Especially a DD that just pop smoke recently. You can figure out where is DD hiding...

 

WASD?

Seriously? Rocket is faster and aiming is even easier after recent buff..... DB from Murica and UK also hurt. Only IJN crap AP bomb wont hurt.... And the most silly thing is plane now turning too fast

 

Positioning?

It wont help, even 2-3 ship cannt prevent CV from doing the first strike. I am stay close to Ally..... But not everyone play  CA with AA build and sometimes BB is also crap. Their AA not helping at all.... The first wave always breakthrough! And deal at least 2K if Lucky and average is 4K-5K for T8 CV.

Its true what you say "your positioning is wrong if you constanly attacked by CV" if you are on BB or CA.... But not with DD, unless CA and BB, you cannt afford lose 1/4 of your HP as DD.... 

Just saying my DD is behind CA yet CV still targeting me despite losing a lot of plane. 

 

AA Build DD?

Its WG FAULT FOR NERFING AA COMMANDER SKILL. AFT and Massive AA fire is crap. Even if you shot half of the plane, they will breakthrough and smack you for 3K or 5K.

 

Just saying, i am playing Furious today. A Fubuki get into cap, supported by Dallas and Muntocculi nearby. 3 min later its dead by my 5K damage (multi wave) and the rest from my team.

 

Also i am playing Le Fantasque, 2KM behind Atlanta againts Graph Zeppelin.... Guess what? 6K HP gone! From single strike... Damn it shit. My range is 15.7KM.... 

 

There is also other WTF moment, when i am capping, enemy Lexington drop payload of He Shit to Atlanta behind island and dead. Where is my damned Radar... Why you dead.....

 

If you have advice for DD.... I will appreciate it. Btw i am play French DD so no smoke or bad positioning since i am long range enemy sheep with an Ally nearby. Also i am trying build AA full but didnt work.

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The biggest problem IMO is the spotting gimmick whereby planes spot ships and everybody can open fire on the spotted ship. If only the CV player could see the ships spotted by the planes, then I'm sure most people would feel better about having CV's in their matches.

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DD is long neglected and I dare to repeat it again the specification for most part is still fixed the same as it was before CV, before Radar and before CV rework, and then more Radar, longer reach Radar, longer duration hydro and fast BB , long range secondaries and of course it all does not help with the reward / damage mechanism and CV now focus on dealing damage and of course the easiest one to farm against is a DD , period

But what made thing worse is the situation CA and CL are in , no I am not talking you Super Cruisers , you are part of the problem , CB and BB sit at a distance where others cannot hit them and keep farming, so CA got to reel back, which then leave the CL unable to push forward , and that in turn mean the DD are devoid of its close support ( the CL ) and fire suppression ( the CA ) and people ask why DD do not go up front, go scout, go spot, go screening cause they cannot ... because survival is now the main task on hand always ... and when the team are all back there unable to provide the needed AA, close support, enemy fire suppression and with all the faulted and unable to be countered spotting means all around well that push the DD back and out ranged.

So before shouting fault those DD that die early going in, might be its better to reflect on the fact that the whole game meta simply exclude that class of ship from being able to perform. Nowadays I had to play my DD early game pretty much sitting back .. ask why, you look at the team lineup .. how many regular CA and CL are there and how many of them able to actually push forward in support ; battle line ; formation .. the sad truth is far and few in between - so the game became a waiting game for any DD player, waiting for that possibility to go forth. Push early and its all too easy to had a heroic death and a ticket back to port.

Yes CV is very much part of the problem ; not only because the planes keep targeting DD, but that their spotting cannot be countered and that made every gun stay back which then of course mean the whole fight became a matter of whose able to out spot and then out gun the other team at range ( and usually that range pretty much out range  almost all DD and a large portion of CL ) and this do not help with CV's inability to provide proper CAP also

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7 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

Then there are some that get themselves killed in extremely ridiculous ways.

Ahem. As a DD player I'm going to have to lodge a protest.

Everyone on the team always seems to know how to play a DD, except the DD. Why do you think that is, hmm? I wonder, could it possibly be that playing a DD is harder than it looks? For sure there are a lot of creative ways to die as a DD. You only have to make one mistake after all. And it doesn't really matter how good you get - there will still be the odd game from time to time where something somewhere didn't go as you expected. The better you are, the less often it happens, but still... it's the nature of it. 

Quote

 Instead they just sail around in circles together with the cruisers and BBs.

This is the line that makes me wonder if you even play DD. In a CV-heavy game sailing around in circles together with the cruisers and BBs is exactly what you should be doing for the first few minutes of the match. If you are an AA DD you protect your BBs, if you have no AA, you huddle with an AA cruiser. DDs have no scouting duties in a double or triple CV game. The goal is to escort everyone safely up to the cap zone and not have to waste smokes for protection before you get there.

Quote

Or they go wide around the map by themselves in order to farm damage off enemy BBs in the back.

Depending on which DD we are talking about, there is a time and a place for that. There is also a time and place for dashing into the cap and smoking up.

Playing DD means evaluating risk/reward constantly, choosing the best option from the broadest pool of possible actions. It takes a long while to get even halfway good at it.

In my view the biggest mistake inexperienced DDs make is to play the short game instead of the long game, committing before the enemy positions are known.

For moderately experienced DD players, I find the biggest mistake is they expect their team to support them and then get frustrated when that doesn't happen.

A good DD player understands that a quid-pro-quo is involved. You have to escort your team, you have to be patient and wait for them, you have to provide help as necessary to put them into an advantageous position. Only then can you expect help and support in return. It's actually no big deal if the cap goes red in the meantime. He who caps last, caps longest.

Edited by Rina_Pon
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As an occasional CV player, I can advise that my favorite targets are ships out on their own. If you're being attacked constantly, maybe its a positioning problem.

A group of four ships, protected by a cruiser? Not much I can do about them, at least not without taking horrific losses.

A battleship all by itself? An easy target.

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I always lol at these threads because it overlooks the most fundamental issue... What is the most powerful ship type in the game?

DD...

Think about it for just a second.

What is your priority order in killing enemy ships? Radars, DDs and CVs.

Most of that is to empower your own DDs and to free up all your other ships, which is what happens if you have a DD advantage.

I'm not saying nerf DDs.

Yes the CV/DD interaction is screwed and DDs can't do that much, that's because the rock, paper, scissors formula has been completely screwed since release.

Fix the CV to DD interaction and you go a long way to fixing the CV issue

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13 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

I always lol at these threads because it overlooks the most fundamental issue... What is the most powerful ship type in the game?

DD...

Think about it for just a second.

What is your priority order in killing enemy ships? Radars, DDs and CVs.

Most of that is to empower your own DDs and to free up all your other ships, which is what happens if you have a DD advantage.

Heck yes this is true!

DDs have the biggest influence over the game. By being at the right place at the right time, any DD can scare the whole enemy flank even without doing any damage. If the fact is untrue, then no one would even bother to hunt DDs.

We lose a BB? Our DDs & cruisers can finish the job although it becomes more difficult.

We lose a cruiser? Our BBs & DDs can also finish the job.

We lose a CV? What on Earth happened?

We lose a DD? Oh sheep! WE ARE BLIND NOW!!!!

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45 minutes ago, notyourfather said:

Now they're trying to fix it by adding "strong" AA DDs.

Which is a stupid answer to a faulted question from the start. The whole thing is no longer AA its much more complex. And even if they made DD had able AA, that still will not take care of the ranging issue and this also applied to a number of CL and CA. And even as a DD main I had to say while DD should got better AA its not like its as bad as rework when it came in .. its faulted but tolerable now .. not like the faulted spotting mechanism interplay and excessively OP spec premiums ( he you give us a BB that can outrun a DD and call that balanced , you give secondaries that can out-range a DD main gun and call that balanced, and you had Radar and Hydro that can penetrate landmass but visual spotting DD ca be blocked and you call this balanced  .. that list can go on and on and not just for DD, plenty equally bad treatments against CL and CA , and BB too )

But let's get back to CV .. the main issue is of course number of CV in game .. hey if they made an effort to limit 4 DD per game , its likewise equally needed to made an effort to fix a hard limit on number of CV to 1 per game, and also to radar and number of BB, CB and if come to be also other type of ships  .. do not blame the CV for all, we the players are to be blamed for our choice of ships , we made altogether totally unbalanced team by entering too may Super Cruiser and BB ( cause everyone just want to over match others ). How can we call it balanced when a game of 8 vs 8 sees a CV, 5 BB, and then that leave what 2 slot for others. you cannot blame the light force for not going out to do their part if you had lineup like that , light force simply are not there , you just had light force ships and some time just a ship and of course the big guns are not pushing into brawling / close support and CV made it damn sure that this meta remains.

So if waiting queue would be long and timely so be it ... its a game it should not take leisure so someone can play over the suffering of the other player .. yo do had a choice ; you want to play CV, BB, Radar then you had to wait for your slot in the MM ... and it should be so for not just high tier but more needed and should be implemented on the mid to low tier ... and let's not talk about CAP, its simply not there

Edited by Mechfori

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CV ruins the game and soon to be SUBS will also ruin the game. Theres only one way....... and that going down............... They cant improve on the game and build on what they have but introduce new features that brake the existing. For every 2 steps forward they go back 3 steps.

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On 1/5/2020 at 9:32 PM, Rina_Pon said:

This is the line that makes me wonder if you even play DD. In a CV-heavy game sailing around in circles together with the cruisers and BBs is exactly what you should be doing for the first few minutes of the match. If you are an AA DD you protect your BBs, if you have no AA, you huddle with an AA cruiser. DDs have no scouting duties in a double or triple CV game. The goal is to escort everyone safely up to the cap zone and not have to waste smokes for protection before you get there.

I play all classes, plus my stats are public so feel free to look them up. No need to wonder.

You have taken my quote out of context. I never said you should rush the cap, but you should at least be making an attempt to contest the cap at some point in the game. I was referring to the DD players that spend the entire match cowering in fear among the cruisers and BBs. A DD is useless there because they are not spotting, they are not screening for enemy DDs and torps, they are not contesting the caps. Sure, all classes can cap (even CVs if push comes to shove) but the fact is DDs are still the class best suited for capping.

As a DD in a CV match you can operate further out but not too far from a friendly cruiser or BB, so that you can duck into their AA umbrella if you see enemy planes approaching. Ideally you should be within the long range AA of the nearest friendly ship, which means around 5km or so. The idea is DDs are extremely hard to spot from air with their AA off, so a CV player is not going to waste time in enemy AA to look for your DD, especially at the higher tiers where AA is more than capable of shredding planes that linger for too long.

The fact you are mentioning double or triple CV games indicates you play a lot of Tier 4-5 games. Because CVs are a lot rarer at the high tiers where I usually play. At the high tiers there are plenty of matches with 0 CVs, with 2 CV matches being uncommon, and 3 CVs never happening unless it is a MM dump. If you are playing at the low tiers then I can see why you might think CVs are a problem, since AA at those tiers range from non-existent at worst to decent at best. Because at the high tiers where AA is very potent, you don't need to huddle with your cruisers and BBs as a DD.

Edited by Thyaliad
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15 minutes ago, LawrenceXVIII said:

God .. same ol cv rant..

Well so long other class are unconditionally agonized for the benefit of CV players so call lessen skill cap change this will not stop againf air and balance and its just not here especially not for DD & CL players

Edited by Mechfori

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9 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

The fact you are mentioning double or triple CV games indicates you play a lot of Tier 4-5 games. Because CVs are a lot rarer at the high tiers where I usually play. At the high tiers there are plenty of matches with 0 CVs, with 2 CV matches being uncommon, and 3 CVs never happening unless it is a MM dump.

Sounds like the perfect excuse to post my cute double-bell-curve. (I mostly play T7-9 now, fyi.)

distribution.thumb.png.9e82a9b1611d7277e2e403b344bf7713.png

Anyway don't take my reply too seriously. For every good DD player there are two cluless ones, and all sorts in between. Even my own DD WRs fluctuate wildly, from nearly 70% in Shiratsuyu to an appalling 34% in Friesland.

DDs are the prima donnas of the game, the most versatile and the most influencial ships, so I suppose it's only natural they take the most blame when things don't work out.. as well has have to deal with the most back-seat driver advice from "helpful" teammates. If I have any beef here, its that they don't get proportional credit when things go well. Everyone can always find a reason to blame the DD for something it seems.

Edited by Rina_Pon

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289
[KAMI]
Member
564 posts
6,535 battles

Players who don't know their roles, or don't want to play their roles. That is what ruins games.

WG doesn't want the casual side of its audience to know they're bad.

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