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SoloWan

Destroyers is overpowered ?

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Started playing this game about 3 weeks ago and managed to grind till tier 8 battleship the SC. What i found while playing this game is the destroyers is too hard to handle since u cant spot it because of the concealment unless u get close enough which is very unlikely with the battleships class. Yes i know u can counter it with cruiser consumables or having teammates destroyer spot it for you. Playing solo in random battles and having teammates supporting you? OF COURSE. Getting "1 shotted" with the torps from unknown places really tilt me off. What do you veteran players think about the Destroyers ? For me kinda overpowered.

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One think I learnt early is always assume that if you are in a BB and a DD has spotted you he has more than likely launched torps.  use your manoeuvrability to turn into the direction.  Never travel in straight lines and always watch the minimap.

DD's used to bee the king of the kids, but in the current meta they struggle a bit.  Pretty easily spotted and focussed by a good CV player and then they either have to decide to run or smoke.

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A Bbaby in the making. 

Play more, you'll see how "overpowered" destroyers are.

/s

Edited by Paladinum
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Yes, DDs are OP. Because 1 good salvo from a cruiser/battlship should instantly obliterate a dd. No further discussion needed.

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14 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Yes, DDs are OP. Because 1 good salvo from a cruiser/battlship should instantly obliterate a dd. No further discussion needed.

And 1-2 torps should sink a BB....................

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12 minutes ago, dieselhead said:

And 1-2 torps should sink a BB....................

Except the Yamato. You need at least 10 torps to sink that thing, and many more bombs

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@SoloWanwatch the DDs closely when you are aware of them in your area....  as soon as they turn away from you, you can be pretty much guaranteed that they have launched torps in your direction..... on the mini-map you will see white shapes of ships, that means that those ships were last spotted in that area, & it also means they can very much likely still be in that area... remember, as a BB you are are bigger & easier to spot than a small DD, so it means you are a bigger more tempting target for a DD.... those rings in the mini-map show the ranges of your weapons & your concealment ranges.... DDs have these too, although a lot smaller.... you can flip though other ships you dont have in the port, by looking at them in the tech tree & clicking on them... study their average ranges of concealment, & it will give you an idea of what to expect if a DD ets close... learn their torpedo ranges etc (USA ranges short-medium s they go up in tier, Japanese long range, Russian extremely short etc...) & as Ralph said, if DD launched torps at you (or planes & cruisers for that matter) turn into them to minimize how many hit you, because you cannot outrun them....

& also, welcome to the game & the forum...

see you on the high seas

:fish_happy:

Ordrazz

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Destroyers(DD) aren't the invisible menace they once were (wait for subs to take that title).

With radar, hydro, aircraft which can take 1/5th of a DDs health in one pass, stealthy allied DDs which can spot enemy DDs, allied gunboat DDs which can wreak enemy DDs on sight, rapid firing light cruisers(CL) which can pummel DDs into oblivion, being a DD is hard, and they are often the first to die, and often don't make it to late game. They become very powerful the longer they survive.

Of course, this does little to help a new Battleship(BB) player up against a veteran DD player.

You are right, you can't depend on your team to support you in a random battle, but you can make yourself easier to support.

First, keep an eye on the minimap, track where the DDs are, over time you will learn what their concealment value and torpedo range is, which can help you avoid them (playing DDs can be valuable in teaching this, know thy enemy).

Never sail in a straight line at constant speed, some players just dump torpedos at choke points in the hope to catch you, others can 'predict' your movements, but generally, if you change up where you are going, they will have trouble hitting you at range.

Try to keep allied ships between you and DD, yes, this depends on allies, but basically, don't go out alone, and follow your fleet, and let them screen for you.

Don't get too close, try to stay away from narrow channels and island where a DD could torp you, always give yourself room to maneuver. Don't sit 20km away, around 13 to 16 kms from enemy cruiser line (keeping some allied ships between you and them) should do it.

You'll pick most of this up as you play, and soon find that there are much more OP ships in this game you need to worry about.

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7 hours ago, SoloWan said:

What do you veteran players think about the Destroyers ?

Badly treated. Easy to pick off and bullied. Too many things that can counter DDs - radar, hydro, cruisers, CVs, etc. 

And yet 3-4 BBs refusing to push because of ONE measly destroyer in their general area is so common it's repulsive.

If DDs are so overpowered, then I don't know why matches with only one or two DDs per side is so common, while the norm is 5 BBs/team at basically all tiers. If they're so overpowered, then there should be more of them, not less.

Edited by Paladinum
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9 hours ago, SoloWan said:

What do you veteran players think about the Destroyers ?

IMO overpowered or not, it depends on your your skills. Once you are good at certain class, people will see your ship as OP while it actually isn't. But it is your skills that made a ship looks OP. 

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3 hours ago, dieselhead said:

And 1-2 torps should sink a BB....................

Except it does not not even the most powerful torp and that's from a DD main BB got sunk because of massive amount of damage taken and usually torp is far from the one doing that.

For BB the worst enemy is oneself and the best friend is also oneself; too many big guns are too much in the mindset that they just fire and fail to grasp their own ; tactical task ; learn where to position yourself, learn when to use the Repair Party and Damage Control , if there is a class of ship that's OP in this game its more likely the Super Cruisers and then the BB , definitely not DD, not even the CL and CA , nor even CV.

for OP : you are running into what might be termed a culture shock, namely high tier game play once you get into T8. before this you are matched against mostly similar experienced players who are piloting their respective ships and with their respective pros and cons , BB and DD included , you learn the basics but that's only the start the real pain and real fight start when you start T8 and seeing veteran players, diverse build among various ships ( even same ship can be vastly different at high tier pending how the player spec it and spec the captain ), and most of all you need to learn that BB is not all about just powering through or sitting at long range, neither work good and the latter would be source of hatred and complain from your own team mate .. you need to learn to WORK WITH the TEAM , not just operating as a slow sailing battery at range.

Players who play enough if this game will know how wild a DD can be in play , ranging from doing nothing to doing massive contribution and this from the same ship, and same player and this is mostly due to what his / her team can do to support the DD and what the enemy team are doing to counter that .. in most cases when a BB or any other ship complain about DD being strong its sure sign that the team is not doing its part ; just as any DD need to do all the tactical task of scouting, spotting, screening, and if allowed ambushing and attacking , flanking and capping. Getting caught by a DD is almost a universal sign that the friendlies fail in the defense tactical task part or team just not formation, not group up and team play.

You counter a BB on any tier by team work, let the BB do the damage dealing when Cruiser run the support / suppression firing and DD do their screening and ambushing. You counter the DD pretty much the same except its now BB doing the Support and let the others handle the enemy. Do not try to see it that as a BB you are all over all others. Its not what it should be ( though in its current game meta its kind of and that's ruining the game ). Team play, Formation, Battle line, and yes ( though this can be hard ) trust your teammates, work with them, not asking them to work for you or you for them only ( an all too common mistake big guns player made )

Edited by Mechfori
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1 hour ago, Mechfori said:

Except it does not not even the most powerful torp and that's from a DD main BB got sunk because of massive amount of damage taken and usually torp is far from the one doing that.

I was talking about irl since old mate said 1-2 salvos should delete a DD....

Also 1 torp CAN sink a full HP BB, its called "detonation" maybe you've heard of it? Happened to me a couple of times, even from a CV torp.

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5 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Yes, DDs are OP. Because 1 good salvo from a cruiser/battlship should instantly obliterate a dd. No further discussion needed.

Just saying some DD is actually Cruiser in disguise. Also only UK BB that can obliterate DD in one salvo....

 

DD main nemesis is CV, a rocket from sky rats cause 1/5 HP lose.....

 

5 hours ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Except the Yamato. You need at least 10 torps to sink that thing, and many more bombs

Yamato sink because AP bomb detonation. You need more than 20 torpedo even Its immune to HE bomb except the crew

 

 

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Dear Solowan, DD is OP not because its OP but the player who playing it. A pro in DD is not like' other class, he must be veteran with atleast 1000 games in DD only. I know it because i rekt everyone in CV and there is no stop. 

 

DD is a very definition of high skill high reward ship.

Also are you even meet RTS CV? That is very definition of Fascism.... If you decide someone dead, its dead. A fully dictatorship that dictate the state of the match. The battle between 2 CV player is so intense that make any other class just supporting class for CV.

 

The dictatorship of CV is long gone, but the dark side always find a succesor. And now we have a Vichya Regime. A DD that practically burn every heretic from 18km.

The only counter for fascism is only the peoples power of socialism manifesto.... The Khabarovsk, a Hero of its age. Too bad they nerfed it.

 

Now the Vichya rule the wave!

 

HAIL BAGUETTA!!!

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LOL .. these days the most OP DD is not a DD at all ;  its called Torpedo Bomber cause they can cross drop you point blank ( or close enough ) and most can do nothing about it

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5 hours ago, dieselhead said:

I was talking about irl since old mate said 1-2 salvos should delete a DD....

Also 1 torp CAN sink a full HP BB, its called "detonation" maybe you've heard of it? Happened to me a couple of times, even from a CV torp.

if you talk detonation then its not a DD vs BB thing or any ship or any class of ship vs any other  ship or class of ship as each and every one of  all ships ( well I am not sure if this applied to CV though ) is open to Detonation, its not the bomb, its not the torp, its not the shell, its about where it hits - if at all BB are much more secured against detonation than almost all others simply due to the fact that the shell / bomb / torp need to go through all the armor to get to that magazine. If we take these chanced encounter away  and look at the consistent nominal real damage routinely done by shells, bombs and torps we can see that for most part the common cannon shells are being the worse enemy rather than the torp.

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On 12/31/2019 at 3:08 AM, SoloWan said:

Started playing this game about 3 weeks ago and managed to grind till tier 8 battleship the SC. What i found while playing this game is the destroyers is too hard to handle since u cant spot it because of the concealment unless u get close enough which is very unlikely with the battleships class. Yes i know u can counter it with cruiser consumables or having teammates destroyer spot it for you. Playing solo in random battles and having teammates supporting you? OF COURSE. Getting "1 shotted" with the torps from unknown places really tilt me off. What do you veteran players think about the Destroyers ? For me kinda overpowered.

No offense, but with only 3 weeks' worth of experience and less than 400 games in Random it is too early you to be in Tier 8. Go back down to the lower tiers and try learning the game a bit more. The best way to learn how to counter a class is to play them yourself. Put yourself in the destroyer's shoes and see what works against you and what doesn't. Then apply what you have learnt to your battleship play.

By doing this you will learn how destroyer players think and how to counter them, such as knowing where their favourite spots are, learning not to sail in straight lines, etc. Also if possible take the time to go through the tech trees and and learn the torpedo range and the concealment values of the destroyers you would face in that tier. For example, with the exception of the Premiums all Japanese destroyers from Tier 6 to Tier 8 have 10km torps. By knowing that you can gauge how much closer you can get to the enemy without putting yourself at risk or getting torped.

Yeah sure, there is nothing much a Battleship can do by itself against a well-played Destroyer, but WoWs is a team game. Like it or not, you will need your teammates to support you. If they don't, then there is nothing you can do except to retreat against the destroyer. You just have to accept that.

As for what I as a veteran think about destroyers, I would say they are certainly the most influential ship class in the game, especially in non-CV games. Teams often win or lose depending on how their destroyers fare, so if you want the greatest chance of winning, support your team's destroyers by shooting at enemy destroyers or anything that can threaten them, such as Radar cruisers. Because in non-CV games the only real counter to a destroyer is either another destroyer or a radar cruiser. So if your team's destroyers go down, you as a Battleship are at the complete mercy of the enemy destroyers. If you don't want that to happen, then support your team's destroyers!

 

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16 hours ago, Mechfori said:

if you talk detonation then its not a DD vs BB thing or any ship or any class of ship vs any other  ship or class of ship as each and every one of  all ships ( well I am not sure if this applied to CV though ) is open to Detonation, its not the bomb, its not the torp, its not the shell, its about where it hits - if at all BB are much more secured against detonation than almost all others simply due to the fact that the shell / bomb / torp need to go through all the armor to get to that magazine. If we take these chanced encounter away  and look at the consistent nominal real damage routinely done by shells, bombs and torps we can see that for most part the common cannon shells are being the worse enemy rather than the torp.

Oh no no no, you said a BB cant be sunk by 1-2 torps when in fact it CAN be. 

To be honest, I wouldnt be too keen listening to your advice since after 12k games you arent even close to 50% WR.....

What Thyalaid said is better advice for a beginner.

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On 12/31/2019 at 4:08 AM, SoloWan said:

Started playing this game about 3 weeks ago and managed to grind till tier 8 battleship the SC. What i found while playing this game is the destroyers is too hard to handle since u cant spot it because of the concealment unless u get close enough which is very unlikely with the battleships class. Yes i know u can counter it with cruiser consumables or having teammates destroyer spot it for you. Playing solo in random battles and having teammates supporting you? OF COURSE. Getting "1 shotted" with the torps from unknown places really tilt me off. What do you veteran players think about the Destroyers ? For me kinda overpowered.

Your problem is a matter of experince because you have not been following the progression properly.

Your number of matches in the ships preceding the North Coralina is way too low. This suggests you've been using premium time and flags to skip tiers. 

 

If you want to improve in the game, I suggest you do the following:

  • Look for a different line that you've never touched, and play it starting from T1 again.
    • DO NOT use premium time or flags or FXP.
    • Random matches ONLY
  • Look for the reasons that caused you to die.
  • Look for the reasons you lost a match. Could YOU have prevented it?
    • It is a team based game. Learn when to blame the team. Learn when to blame yourself.
  • Look up some tutorials online, some mechanics are less obvious or involve breakpoints. Eg. Overmatch
    • Avoid WG's official tutorials. You can reference their "how it works" series for formula reference, but ignore any gameplay advice.
  • Change your UI settings if you haven't done that yet. The game's default settings are meant to intentionally fail players.
    • Consider UI mods too, there are officially approved ones. The base UI simply isn't good enough.
Edited by Verytis
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