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AkiiKan

Nothing could a DD do with CV+rader+SAP environment

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Well, I think he said reasonablegc6nbxx.gif.861f72fc7f5eb581aecdba2ce08feb53.gif

1 match with 1CV + 4rader ship + 2 Italian CA, I dont think could do some meaningful stuff,  except deploying Shimakaze's torps from 20km with luck

4.png.fc8ee426f42f5f2e5a1e4d1a73f28366.png

Edited by AkiiKan

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Well, Git Gud then. Don't rely on your teammates too much. 

Or you can just simply not playing DD at all. Because DD could do nothing.

Edited by I_401
Yoyr typo, changed to your
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actually I''ve been in worse and survive ; though I must say for the early half of the game I am too busy trying to remain stealth than doing anything constructive .. its just the game meta right now .. and WG keep saying DD can be play on Speed, Agility and Stealth ; the fact is for any individual vs individual condition this might come out true , but in PvP ( and even PvE ) those things do not come individually and collectively they basically take away DD's ability to go do their DD thing ( that so many guns still keep insisting and demanding but without CLOSE support provided, close as in they had to include that DD in their AA envelope aka at most distanced 5.5 KM) ; and you can thrown in Long range Hydro, Secondaries, Mid -Range and Long Range Radar ( DD, Salem, Soviet Cruisers ) and today even BB that can out run a DD.

DD can be play for effect, but forget about early on scouting, spotting, screening it just do not work anymore , not in the game environment when the mechanism is all about hunting all the up front light force  and not just DD ; its more closer to being IJN Doctrine in pre-WW-II or WW-I Torpedo boat tactics.

The other thing is range , when the game now either play or force player to play at range at say 15, 18, or even 20 KM out , then basically a bunch of DD and CL are simply ranged out , even some CA .. when I play DD today , I keep hearing the big guns keep shouting to light force to go ahead and support but they just all sail side way back lane. Needless to say this do not go well with the light force at all, this game meta is driving a big divide between the big guns BB and Super Cruiser player vs , light force with CA or smaller guns who need to be in range.  Needing fire support to go up front and that is not provided since too may big guns are too afraid to go out and actually engage .. its a no win situation for all

There is also the reward system, yes I know people keep saying you can earn by spotting but the problem is you only earn the ribbon and at best the first salvo then the reward is divided among all who can now sees it , and you the DD had to face grave danger to go out and spot and then everyone else can enjoy the reward without even much of any effort and any danger .. it clearly do not add up for DD Players, you screen the flank but sorry it reward none, you torp into Area to force enemy to turn and retreat sorry reward none, you smoke for that big guns so he do not get spammed by cross fire, good job but sorry no reward for the good deed. You open up to support the BB and Cruisers, you instantly become target no.1 and you had neither the Hp nor the Armor to tank any while your teammate happily farm damage when enemy choose to focus on you. 

Not just WG made the game hostile to DD player, they basically discourage DD player to play DD by all account

Edited by Mechfori
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admit that DD is no longer a front liner, flanker

when match start, I'll go for 1/2 or 3/5 speed sail along with my team CA/CL

mask myself in the present of bigger ship

if plane are coming in anyway mean he willing to trade and most likely not aim at you but big ship beside you.

now you position on map is compromise, if you're gun boat, nothing change much, if your torpedo boat, having your position compromise will MASSIVELY impact your game play, enemy will acknowledge you and prepare to dodge any torpedo run your planing.

in that case, you might just want to switch flank.

Spoiler

and lastly..... don't forget to report those CV

since game don't give you any meaningful counter to CV, all you can do is attack them psychologically by have them be reported for 'breaking game balance' :Smile_trollface:

I won't report toxic chatter, AFK, TK, yolo etc,

but I'll report CV, they worst than all of above.

 

 

Edited by PGM991
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I thought this kind of topic is dead... /s

I will just add a few more things because the others have said it. No ships cannot be played as aggressively as they used to because the meta keep changing. And because Asia is where the hardcore players come from, it is next to impossible to follow the textbook do what CC's in their streams do like Flamu, Jingles, Notser, etc.

DDs are indeed the most affected ones when a big change happens. But if you can master them, the other classes feel easier to master.

- Do not get into cap zones first. Sail around those within 1 km from the edge, and provide spotting for your allies. And position your ship away throughout most of this session so you can dash away immediately when someone spots you whether with CV, radar, or DD will better concealment.

- Be aware of where the radar ships are. They will usually hide behind islands near the cap zones if there are any. Many of them will use the cap zones as the indicators to detect where the opposing DDs are.

- Try to memorize the radar's range & duration. Knowing that is half of DD's battle (bad proverbs). Most radars can reach 10 km with some exceptions, read here.

- Once the threats are down, you can safely cap. Rinse & repeat!

For CVs, I suggest to try that class first. Learn how they work, and how some enemies can give you trouble when you try to hit them. Some DD players can be ridiculously pesky to deal with. So try to see things from different PoV.

For SAP, I can only say... just dodge! Consider that shell type as a very big HE shell that somehow can't set fire.

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18 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

I thought this kind of topic is dead... /s

TL;DR

^ This.

That is why players should not be pigeonholed into a particular ship line or class. Play variety. Be flexible. I grind all lines to T10 to learn whether they are good or crap. I get to call a ship garbage because I have tried it and seen how it performs and how much effort it takes to make it perform. Eg, Pizza cruisers. Garbage unless facing things with piddly armour (OH LOOK! DDs!) or is top tier. 

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As an afterthought, Asia is probably the most resistant server to metachanges because our meta of being cautious and snipey beats everything else. For Asia, the way to change it is to make the campy meta unprofitable. 

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Be a man and stop whinging. 

I was once chain radared by 3 moskvas on the enemy team in my Daring once, lived to tell the tale. 

Its the player, not the ship (class). 

Edited by LordTyphoon
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1 hour ago, Sir_Feather said:

For SAP, I can only say... just dodge! Consider that shell type as a very big HE shell that somehow can't set fire.

For SAP and the Italian cruisers, treat them like you would the British CLs. SAP hurts if you show too much side, but once you start angling their damage drops off dramatically.

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3 hours ago, PGM991 said:

admit that DD is no longer a front liner, flanker

when match start, I'll go for 1/2 or 3/5 speed sail along with my team CA/CL

mask myself in the present of bigger ship

if plane are coming in anyway mean he willing to trade and most likely not aim at you but big ship beside you.

now you position on map is compromise, if you're gun boat, nothing change much, if your torpedo boat, having your position compromise will MASSIVELY impact your game play, enemy will acknowledge you and prepare to dodge any torpedo run your planing.

in that case, you might just want to switch flank.

  Hide contents

and lastly..... don't forget to report those CV

since game don't give you any meaningful counter to CV, all you can do is attack them psychologically by have them be reported for 'breaking game balance' :Smile_trollface:

I won't report toxic chatter, AFK, TK, yolo etc,

but I'll report CV, they worst than all of above.

 

 

Nah, DD just need to free from cap slave and doing its intended role : Destroy

 

______________

People forget that intended role of DD is protecting Fleet, not capping .... They re called DESTROYER TO DESTROY ENEMIES!

 

TELL ME, submarine can cap better than DD, also high stealth small fishing boat is exist for capping.... With concealment of 3km without upgrade, NO ONE can stop small fishing boat doing its role!

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1 hour ago, dejiko_nyo said:

As an afterthought, Asia is probably the most resistant server to metachanges 

This is only true for some DDs though e.g. Soviet & French DDs. Most DDs have either very floaty ballistics or are just less maneuverable to dodge the focused fire from more than 2 ships at medium range. This leads to the compulsory stealth-based playstyle as well as making IJN main DD line a popular choice.

 

26 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

For SAP and the Italian cruisers, treat them like you would the British CLs. SAP hurts if you show too much side, but once you start angling their damage drops off dramatically.

I can confirm this. I've been playing Kitakaze more frequently since last patch, and have met the Italians quite a lot in those games.

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I mean majority of Asia server survives metachanges better because of the conservative BB/CA sniping meta prevalent here. Unless it is specifically geared to counter the sniping meta. 

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1 hour ago, Sir_Feather said:

This is only true for some DDs though e.g. Soviet & French DDs. Most DDs have either very floaty ballistics or are just less maneuverable to dodge the focused fire from more than 2 ships at medium range. This leads to the compulsory stealth-based playstyle as well as making IJN main DD line a popular ...

 

which of course are compounded by the mentioned Sniping behavior of BB / Cruiser which mean most DD ( and CL ) at the front are left without immediate close support which they deary need to survive if being spotted , and that further into the farming practice that back lane BB and Cruiser jus keep farming without regard to what the up front need are, seen so many time Enemy Radar basically left unchecked despite the are clearly in range and sighted , enemy CL and CA are not deal with when the guns busy farming on the enemy BB ; this goes with CV also.

 

it had to do with the reward that only take damage dealing as counting towards the beans ; and now also compound that wit really bad MM , I mean in a 12 vs 12 , its so often that we see 1 CV, but then 5, 6, 7 BB, then a couple Super Cruiser, how many slot are left for real CA and CL / DD .. these guys are almost always asked to go out to do this do that but the big guns, Super Cruiser just all sit back there .. from the up front light force POV the team is just using them as fire bait to get the enemy exposed, and expend them for the guns and CV's benefit ( farming damage ) and shall I mention this -  usually there is 2 ,3 or 4 Radars thrown in

 

In fact such had made reading the game easier ( pun intended ) cause as a DD Player you just read if your team will formation, battle line and PUSH , if not then its time to bust back, stay there and well just sit back, relax and enjoy the show ( cause you do not had the range to do anything anyway ) ; be patient and wait till situation show itself .. if it favors your team then you can choose to sail out and try something, if its the other way round .. well .. call it a day .. nothing can be done to help ( usually ) and by all mean ignore the big guns request to go scout, go spot, go cap .. they want it done , sure if they provide that UP FRONT CLOSE support ..  but will they ( cause if they do the team will already be pushing and no need for anyone to ask for these )

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DD main here. Well, essentially that's what I am these days. RN, USN and IJN lines.

Playing a DD is all about AWARENESS and RESPONSIVENESS. Situational awareness is knowing what's going on. Responsiveness is knowing what you should be doing.

SAP/CV/RADAR makes life more difficult, but that goes for your opponent DD just as much. Sometimes you can contribute a lot, sometimes not so much, the key is to outplay the enemy DD.

In the really tough MM, you hunker down in safety for a bit, then spend the first half of the game as fleet escort. Options tend to open up in the last half as radar cruisers thin out and CV finds more pressing things to do with his planes.

Do not underestimate the value of getting detected and shot at. A bit of suggestively wiggled DD behind can easily draw half the enemy team into the open. Baiting radar cruisers like this is a bit like fine art.

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