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Ashen_Sky

Discussion for Pan-EU Premium Cruiser

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Teaser on the new Swedish Pan-EU destroyers makes me thinking on possible premium cruisers. Hence, i make this topic as a stress relief after PR disaster.

Here is my suggestion for the Pan-EU premium cruisers

Canarias ,  T-VI?

827973023_file(3).thumb.png.11bb90914db0ddd1aabd09d88171c4ab.png

A Spanish heavy cruiser based on the British County-class, Canarias was the flagship of the Nationalist side during the civil war. She was armed with the same 203mm gun, but exchanged torpedo bulge for better internal protection and 33 knot speed. Moreover, she has more torpedo tubes compared to her half-sister. Gameplay should be relatively similar to Devonshire.

HSwMS Tre Kronor , T-VIII?

1553275148_file(1).thumb.png.62e6363ce7ac83fc44e7952abf68f67c.png

A 7,500 ton light cruiser of the Swedish Navy, Tre Kronor is one of the last modern cruisers ever completed. She was lightly armored with 70mm belt, but has respectable speed of 33 knots and decent AA. The key is her main battery of Bofors 152mm/53 gun (a triple forward and two doubles aft), capable of firing a shell 15 rounds per minute at 900m/s. She also has reasonably modern sensors and radars from the British. In terms of gameplay, i think she would be very similar to Chapayev, kiter and radar support (with lesser range).

HNLMS De Ruyter (Endracht-class), T-IX or X?

53521364_file(2).thumb.png.d9e61c21097960370407d3d4863251b8.png

De Ruyter is one of De Zeven Provincien-class cruisers built for the Royal Netherlands Navy. She weighted around 14,000 ton, yet has barely any armor of which her belt was only 76mm thick at best. Speed is modest at 32 knots, but being more modern than Tre Kronor, she has many modern sensors and of course, DAKKA! She has the same Bofors guns, but were enhanced and has higher fire rate, completed by an extensive AA battery. This thing, is Friesland on cracks and citadels.

What do you guys think?

 

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More ships is always good.

Speaking of the British county-class cruisers, can we get those in the game too? I always liked those.

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9 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

I want them all in the line, rather than premium :Smile_glasses:

I second that motion

Edited by S0und_Theif
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There is little doubt to place Canarias at T6 together with the first generation of Treaty cruisers like Pensacola, Trento and County.

Also she is flying the Spanish Republican tricolor? 

(After some research it is incorrect to claim that she did not spend one single day under the Republican flag. She was made seaworthy by September 1934, however many components, including two aft turrents, are still missing when she conducted her engine trials. The two still not fully completed cruisers were captured by Nationalist rebels in their dockyards in Ferrol when the Civil War broke out, and in the end the Rebels managed to finish their much-delayed construction.)

The problem of the Swedish and the Dutch ones is much trickier in contrast. I suggest place De Zeven Provincien at T7? 8 rapid-firing and dual purpose Bofors 152-mm and awesome AA suite (152-mm Bofors DP and 57-mm Bofors also found abroad Jean Bart) but with average agility and poor armour with a tasty "apartment block" superstructure for HE spam.

Also I suggest the name De Ruyter should be reserved for Rear Admiral Karel Doorman's flagship which was lost in action when defending Java from the Japanese. With her modest specifications (50-mm belt, 7 gun broadside), T5, or T6 at most with some very powerful gimmicks.

1 hour ago, JollySam said:

More ships is always good.

Speaking of the British county-class cruisers, can we get those in the game too? I always liked those.

They are coming soon. They will arrive at Patch 0.9.0.

HMS London (in her modernized form), HMS Devonshire (in fact an amalgamation of the whole County-class family, bar London) and HMS Surrey (purposed 4th group of the Counties with much improved protection).

Also OP has changed his profile picture from Adm. Franz Hipper to Ms. Hipper? :)

Edited by Project45_Opytny
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1 hour ago, JollySam said:

More ships is always good.

Speaking of the British county-class cruisers, can we get those in the game too? I always liked those.

London is currently being tested. The ship will be a T6 premium though.

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Oh wow, that's good news. Thanks.

Are they all going to be premium ships? Or will there be a separate British 'Heavy Cruiser' tech tree offshoot?

If they're premium, make the prices decent, WG. I'll consider them. I could do with a good tier 6 premium cruiser.

44 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

 

Edited by JollySam

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5 minutes ago, JollySam said:

Oh wow, that's good news. Thanks.

Are they all going to be premium ships? Or will there be a separate British 'Heavy Cruiser' tech tree offshoot?

If they're premium, make the prices decent, WG. I'll consider them. I could do with a good tier 6 premium cruiser.

There would be a full British heavy cruiser branch soon, with Devonshire and Surrey in tech tree and London as a premium.

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Just now, JollySam said:

Are they all going to be premium ships? Or will there be a separate British 'Heavy Cruiser' tech tree offshoot?

Apart from T9 and T10 which would extremely likely be paper/WG hypothetical designs, a full PEU cruiser line is 100% possible.

Also a possible freemium - a super cruiser design known as Project 1047 of the Netherlands Navy, armed with 3x3 283 mm guns (German 283 mm) and 190-220 mm armor belt.

RN heavy cruiser line is being tested. Sorry but I'm kinda surprised you don't know about this :Smile_hiding: 

 

In general, I'm stoked and hyped about Pan-EU lines in general.

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I would like to see them incorporated into a true Pan-European Cruiser line ( and not just Swedish )

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7 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Apart from T9 and T10 which would extremely likely be paper/WG hypothetical designs, a full PEU cruiser line is 100% possible.

Also a possible freemium - a super cruiser design known as Project 1047 of the Netherlands Navy, armed with 3x3 283 mm guns (German 283 mm) and 190-220 mm armor belt.

RN heavy cruiser line is being tested. Sorry but I'm kinda surprised you don't know about this 

It's not that surprising. I don't generally look into or care about additions to a game that could be months or even years away. I care what's in there now.

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1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

The problem of the Swedish and the Dutch ones is much trickier in contrast. I suggest place De Zeven Provincien at T7? 8 rapid-firing and dual purpose Bofors 152-mm and awesome AA suite (152-mm Bofors DP and 57-mm Bofors also found abroad Jean Bart) but with average agility and poor armour with a tasty "apartment block" superstructure for HE spam.

Wouldn't that be weird to place a modern warship (Hell, De Ruyter still exist as Almirante Grau in Peru!) with dreadnoughts and early-war warships? Besides, she has extensive suits of Radar and Sonar which would be very overpowered in T7. Yes she has Omaha-grade armor, but Smolensk has that too...

Should these ships be long-range support? high-velocity and fast reload, combined with lackluster armor and maneuverability but good suites of consumables might be fitting for that slot. If that wasn't enough, give them UNLIMITED charges on Radar as Gimmick

1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Also I suggest the name De Ruyter should be reserved for Rear Admiral Karel Doorman's flagship which was lost in action when defending Java from the Japanese. With her modest specifications (50-mm belt, 7 gun broadside), T5, or T6 at most with some very powerful gimmicks.

I thinked about that too...but this De Ruyter is also special, being the last gun-warship ever operational (decommissioned in 2010s). Besides, De Ruyter is much easier to type compared to De Zeven Provincien. Also, the OG De Ruyter is basically an Emerald mixed with Graf Spee's superstructure and Nurnberg's armor, so she will fit T6 easily.

De Ruyter (OG) has a special place in my heart because her homeport (and last stop) is where i live. Shame she got scavenged by scumbags.

Edited by Earl_of_Arland

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4 minutes ago, JollySam said:

that could be months or even years away

RN CAs will be the first in 2020, even 0.9.0 if WG must stick to their schedule (which usually leads to poorly implemented content).

 

Why do you have to do that, WeeGee...

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23 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Also a possible freemium - a super cruiser design known as Project 1047 of the Netherlands Navy, armed with 3x3 283 mm guns (German 283 mm) and 190-220 mm armor belt.

You meant this boi?

215490833_file(4).thumb.png.ffaf023435aea7548cba767142db3bae.png

Carbon-copy of Scharnhorst but faster, squishy and DUTCH!

Let's call her Prins van Oranje

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Just now, Earl_of_Arland said:

Let's call her Prins van Oranje

The Interweb got a jump on that and apparently (?) the Netherlands already has a name for the design - Holland.

It's all just hearsay and rumors though.

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2 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

The Interweb got a jump on that and apparently (?) the Netherlands already has a name for the design - Holland.

It's all just hearsay and rumors though.

Just in case WG uses Holland for a hopefully T-IX Destroyer (Holland is half-sister to Friesland i believe)

And since this would be the first major Dutch capital ship, it's better to name it after someone else important to the nation, this case Prince of Orange

Edited by Earl_of_Arland

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@Paladinum @Earl_of_Arland

You know WG, they might give names to the ship that may not fit for her class or naming convention.

Also push updates with bugs. It's as if they did not test them properly before pushing it to the live server.

Kind of disappointed with WG on handling things lately. OK very disappointed lately.

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27 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Wouldn't that be weird to place a modern warship (Hell, De Ruyter still exist as Almirante Grau in Peru!) with dreadnoughts and early-war warships? Besides, she has extensive suits of Radar and Sonar which would be very overpowered in T7. Yes she has Omaha-grade armor, but Smolensk has that too...

Should these ships be long-range support? high-velocity and fast reload, combined with lackluster armor and maneuverability but good suites of consumables might be fitting for that slot.

That indeed troubles me. She indeed boasts DP 152-mm guns, but there are only a relatively low number of them. On the other hand, the current B-hull of Kirov represents her status in the 1950s after surviving the Great Patriotic War, with her post war electronics suite clearly visible (but none are actually operational in game). So how about a compromise, T8?

Also high muzzle velocity does not equal railgun ballistics (examples include Nurnberg and Raimondo Montecuccoli).

27 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Also, the OG De Ruyter is basically an Emerald mixed with Graf Spee's superstructure and Nurnberg's armor, so she will fit T6 easily.

You cannot be serious... 50-mm belt is weak even for T5 and both Emerald and Nurnberg are infamous for how fragile they are.

You meant this boi?

215490833_file(4).thumb.png.ffaf023435aea7548cba767142db3bae.png

Carbon-copy of Scharnhorst but faster, squishy and DUTCH!

Let's call her Prins van Oranje

http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Special_battlecruiser.htm

An article from the 1980s that has made a detailed overview about the project, from its genesis to the last stages reached before the German invasion.

Edited by Project45_Opytny

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2 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

That indeed troubles me. She indeed boasts DP 152-mm guns, but there are only a relatively low number of them. On the other hand, the current B-hull of Kirov represents her status in the 1950s after surviving the Great Patriotic War, with her post war electronics suite clearly visible (but none are actually operational in game). So how about a compromise, T8?

T9 and we have a deal. Buff her guns to 3.75s reload to compensate and give unlimited radar charges because why not?:Smile_trollface:

Then Tre Kronor can be the T8, considering she also has radar (lesser range compared to Provincien's, but still postwar radar which is good), rapid-firing guns (she achieved 4s reload IRL). Putting them any lower, they will club the fives, sixes and sevens.

8 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

You cannot be serious... 50-mm belt is weak even for T5 and both Emerald and Nurnberg are infamous for how fragile they are.

I'm totally serious

/s

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5 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Just in case WG uses Holland for a hopefully T-IX Destroyer (Holland is half-sister to Friesland i believe)

T9 EU DD is the Swedish Ostergotland though?

 

6 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

 And since this would be the first major Dutch capital ship, it's better to name it after someone else important to the nation, this case Prince of Orange

WG: :Smile_trollface:

 

On a serious note, it's a tradition (maybe) at this time to name ships with historical names: names that had been used before, especially on the same ship type with the ship being named.

There's no historical Dutch ship named "Prins van Oranje" beside a class of minelayers... So the chance of that name being used is very small, on a pretty big ship no less.

 

The Netherlands Navy keeps reusing the same four names over and over... Have some new naming conventions... Or new names...

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1 minute ago, Paladinum said:

T9 EU DD is the Swedish Ostergotland though?

*Suggested split into ASW-focused line like Friesland*

2 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

On a serious note, it's a tradition (maybe) at this time to name ships with historical names: names that had been used before, especially on the same ship type with the ship being named.

There's no historical Dutch ship named "Prins van Oranje" beside a class of minelayers... So the chance of that name being used is very small, on a pretty big ship no less.

Yeah...but the Dutch never built any ship larger than cruisers, so no naming convention. And i believe the convention random, they named destroyers after admirals (Van Ghent, Piet Hein), then states (Friesland, Holland). Cruisers after colonies and lands (Java, Sumatra) but switched to admirals (De Ruyter). Coastal battleships...just forget it (De Zeven Provincien, Soerabaja).

Prins van Oranje is unique, and has a ring to it. And i observe they tend to name their most powerful units after famed figure, and the Prince of Orange is very much known there.

8 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

The Netherlands Navy keeps reusing the same four names over and over... Have some new naming conventions... Or new names...

There's been seven De Ruyters, so yeah very repetitive.

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6 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

T9 EU DD is the Swedish Ostergotland though?

 

WG: :Smile_trollface:

 

On a serious note, it's a tradition (maybe) at this time to name ships with historical names: names that had been used before, especially on the same ship type with the ship being named.

There's no historical Dutch ship named "Prins van Oranje" beside a class of minelayers... So the chance of that name being used is very small, on a pretty big ship no less.

 

The Netherlands Navy keeps reusing the same four names over and over... Have some new naming conventions... Or new names...

I have seen someone claimed that the ship may be named as "IJsselmeer", though I cannot confirm that. However the Dutch did prepared to name two of their new cruisers as Eendracht and Kijkduin (which became the post-war De Ruyter and De Zeven Provincien finally).

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The latest "incident" of WG had to change the names of test ships was a while ago - the T8 to 10 Italian cruisers. The names WG picked initially had never been used by the Regia Marina and caused a pretty big backlash (not PR grind level, of course) and WG caved and changed the names to more historical ones.

Well, Prince of Orange is a pretty big name, so while I think that name has a very small chance to be selected, very few people would be against it.

Edited by Paladinum

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