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SidTheKnife

Economics of Destroyers

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I was interested to look carefully at the credits for each battle tonight. I found that taking my tier 8 DD out to play was costing me credits.

In one battle, I capped an objective, hit an enemy with a torp, and then got spotted by a CV and soon died, as everyone focused fire on me. This is highly typical for DD play. When CVs spot you in the cap, everyone shoots at you. 

I discovered I had lost 25K credits, even though I secured a cap for the team, and did damage with a torp, before dying. It cost me money to have that experience.

In the next battle, I did not secure a cap. I was unlucky with the CV, and died quickly. Here, I lost 65K credits.

In short, DDs are money losers, if (when) you get spotted and killed taking caps. You may find it very hard to save credits, playing this ship.

Perhaps this is why there are so few DD in the higher tiers, and why so many are premium.

I had not realised I was actually losing money, playing DDs and getting destroyed by CV spotting. I had thought that taking caps was enough, and that the aggravation of being hit by players who never get hit back was "just a feature of the game".

Now I understand why nobody is playing normal tier DDs. Without the bonus to credits from premium ships, it costs money to play DDs.

So, be careful. Have a careful look at how much it costs you, to take your DD out to be spotted and destroyed by a CV, and the 27 different radar ships now in the game.

Pushing caps in DDs is a money losing proposition. It is good economics for everyone else. Certainly, your team will benefit. But you will lose, and your experience and financial loss will be subsidising the guys in premium battleships who hang back, and wait for others to engage.

When you have more than one CV, you are being farmed, in a DD. Be aware.

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yeah.... no

 

that's just you not playing well, and losing credits is perfectly normal when playing badly at T8 no matter what ship you are in. DDs have the lowest service cost of any class and you were in a premium ship to boot, if you lose credits then... tough luck.

perhaps if you stopped whining about CVs for a bit and took the time instead to learn how to play the game better? that usually solves the issue of losing credits T8 in every ship class :Smile_popcorn:

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[KAMI]
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Buy premium time right now to stop losing credit!!!!!

 

if you still lose, then idk

 

 

Edited by Gummilicious

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32 minutes ago, SidTheKnife said:

In short, DDs are money losers, if (when) you get spotted and killed taking caps. You may find it very hard to save credits, playing this ship.

absolutely wrong

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these are my credits grinder from 2016 - 2017

DD.png

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Very few DDs per match in high tiers is more likely because of the overflow of radar ships in the game. Many ships in the game can counter DDs or deal great damage to them with relative ease, even BBs. People also don't want to play T8 DDs (or any T8 ships in general) because they will most likely get uptiered.

Spotting and capping should yield more profit than they are now, esp. for DDs whose main jobs are spotting and capping. Many people are very frustrated because of this, and it has been this way for a while. Many things in the game do not support DD mains.

In general, if you're constantly losing money (in any ship), you are most likely playing poorly. In regards of your past threads, you simply have yet adapted to the server's playstyle. Or maybe you don't want to but expect others to play by you.

 

Afterwords: You're trying to push the problem to CVs while it's a general mechanic problem of the game. It's utterly stupid to push 3 CVs per side in a T4 match, but the problem in that is not the CVs, instead, it's WG's incomprehensible way to handle the situation.

Edited by Paladinum
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If you perform decently on average in T8, you won't lose credits, although you won't really make credits either. Thats in a tech tree ship without special cost reduction camo.

With economic bonuses like most premium ships or premium time, you should be making credits.

If you're losing credits over time despite having bonuses, you're probably not ready for T8 DDs.

 

Because its only gonna get even harder to float in T9 and T10 without economic bonuses.

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1 minute ago, Verytis said:

If you perform decently on average in T8, you won't lose credits, although you won't really make credits either. Thats in a tech tree ship without special cost reduction camo.

With economic bonuses like most premium ships or premium time, you should be making credits.

If you're losing credits over time despite having bonuses, you're probably not ready for T8 DDs.

 

Because its only gonna get even harder to float in T9 and T10 without economic bonuses.

T9 you can break even if you are consistently getting good results, T10... you'd better maintaine purple stats the whole way if you want to just break even

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shot-19_05.10_12_41.23-0559.thumb.jpg.cd906526c26a45ecd73bd0694763a224.jpgshot-19_05.10_12_41.33-0773.thumb.jpg.a1cd99d09772e596b83a903a185ab2e4.jpg

Not my highest record in DD. But I still made tons of credits with only premium account. And yes I topped that leaderboard in a CV game, plus the fact I used my guns more than my torps.

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2 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

Not my highest record in DD. But I still made tons of credits with only premium account. And yes I topped that leaderboard in a CV game, plus the fact I used my guns more than my torps.

Unless you got blapped or the match ended too fast before you could get in on some action, you can't really lose credits on premium time.

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"One" cap and "one" torpedo hit is the start of a good DD game, not the entirety of it.

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Playing T8 - I assume randoms - on just over 1500 battles strikes me as a little iffy given you'll face T10 opponents. Doubly so for DDs as they are much less forgiving.

If you are likely to get plane spotted in the cap, don't go in without smoke ready. Every move you make must factor in counters like this. You have to think ahead.

Edited by Rina_Pon
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I’m not sure your argument has merit syd.  I’ve literally sailed the entire game without firing a shot.  Spotting and capping was all I did but I stayed alive the whole game.   I am a terrible dad player but I cannot even remember losing money in games.  

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Losing credits is typical of T8 battles, especially if you’re not running premium time. Nothing to do with DDs in particular, it will affect all ships at T8 above, including CVs.

It can be reduced by premium time, economic signals, camouflages, especially permanent ones which give -10% or more reduction on repair bills

Its a ploy by WG to get you to spend money.

Yes, you can negate it by being really really good, but if you’re just starting out at T8, you!re unlikely to be that good yet.

One strategy is to just recoup expenses by playing at lower tiers, or operations like Narai.

You’re also playing in Asashio and Kagero, IJN torpedo boats which aren’t very suited to current meta, not just because of CVs, but because of lots of radar, hydro, and so many gun DDs which can eat them easily if you’re not careful. You’d probably find Kidd a better T8 DD in this meta.

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well being a DD main I think I had some insight into that .. yes at high tier DD play can often be money losing business and no CV is not the reason but its part of the cause. At todays game meta which is bring about by introduction of so many new ships and mechanism without buffing the old ships to update ( and that not only DD ) it had put in particular DD in a very bad situation.

1 or 2 CV, 4 to 6 BB, 3 , 4 even 5 Radar , and plenty of Super Cruiser is almost always the norm , ending up in many game where DD numbered in 1 or 2 only , and as a DD you do not had the range ( guns and torp ) you no longer had the speed ( unless you play French ), and all you rely on is stealth and this is taken away by introduction of CV and too many Radar , so in essence as a DD your main strong point to play with are all taken away or at best significantly nerfed and countered ; with you not giving the proper counter to others

Then there's the teammate or their lack of any real support, with high tier and now super cruisers and more Radar its increasingly any of the guns be it B CA or CL would only sit far from the front and sling shells at each other , well as a DD you cannot cause you simply do not had the range but to get into range then you position yourself in a position where enemy spotting will almost always had a high % chance of spotting you, planes, Radars, enemy DD and no less even hidden enemy guns , and when you are spotted you can be sure of intense focus and cross fire on you ..that of course is not help by your own team's guns keep asking you to go out and do your DD duty but they would not do their up close CLOSE support duty and continuous to just snipe, fame at the easy target from back there and get their return of EXP, and Credit. So while high tier financially is not friendly to all class of ships its especially so to DD

But I do also play torpedo boat , I like the play and know to adept ... it may not be what gun players like but the motto is - survival - your survival is first and foremost , you cannot do anything if you are dead within the first encounter, and that first encounter is where you need to get to know if your teams guns are about actually formation and group to push or just wanting to casual snipe and farm, and know enough to assertively telling them " NO " when you are asked to do your part without them doing theirs ( especially when they will not TANK ). Got to learn when to abandon them when they show no willingness to fight a battle , learn not to be part of a brawl. Know your duty is to spot, screen, scout, and cap ( but of course most of which reward none or reward little if any ) .. and of course in the end its the game mechanism that dictates; this game really only reward for Damage and Kills so to hell with the team, and any tactical play needed if ever they are not into it ... forget supporting the guns or doing your DD part , just go do your own damage dealing .. that is not the best approach but that's the financially viable one.

Don't like to say this but at current game meta and at high tier, DD is the class of ships that are most power creeped and the class most asked for to go out and do their part without the game giving them the proper buff to stay in the game. Like it or not, as a DD player one had to do what one had to do to survive first and foremost , frequently ( at current guns all stay at range meta ) its about learning not to do the proper DD thing and not to do the proper support cause DD are simply not being allowed the luxury to do so ( and to you guns ; you guns are not supporting us to go out and do so ; so pls stop asking if you guns are not prepared to give that CLOSE fire support )

Edited by Mechfori
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11 hours ago, Verytis said:

Unless you got blapped or the match ended too fast before you could get in on some action, you can't really lose credits on premium time.

Exactly what I meant. If anything, DD is somewhat the cheapest class to run.

On a side note, OP might use full sets of premium consumables without extra spares in reserve, and blapped too early/without having done much.

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1 minute ago, Sir_Feather said:

blapped too early/without having done much.

Considering the OP's playstyle, no doubt it happens frequently.

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33 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Considering the OP's playstyle, no doubt it happens frequently.

A typically snarky post from you. You really should begin more of your own threads. It would do you good. Sniping can become a bad habit.

Now, I had thought the point of DDs was to try and win the cap, and scout for the team. In my experience, this gets countered by CVs scouting the caps, and revealing DDs for their team.

The battle for the caps begins with scouting, and the dds tend to be on the front line.

I am noticing more DDs sticking back with the high AA ships now, and indeed that does protect the ship quiet well. But then, if you not scouting and capping, what are you for?

I note that credits are fairly easy to get in premium ship. I make bank with my Asashio. So that is interesting. I had not realised, as other posters have noted, that stock ships at high tiers often don't make profit.

Anyway, it makes me value premium ships a lot more. I doubt I will bother grinding the Kagero to progress the IJN DD line. The Asashio has smoke and torp reload booster, and decent guns. And it makes a profit. A great little ship. The Kagero.... meh.

 

Edited by SidTheKnife
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Even if you are in matches with no CV, DDs will hang back too. And is that a CV problem?

First thing to do when I, yes, ME, come into a match is to check the team line-up before enter battle. Even more cautious when I play a DD (Kitakaze/Z-52/any other DD in that tier bracket) and the enemy team has ANY radar cruiser. Radar cruisers are more destructive than CVs because radar can see through Smoke and aircrafts cannot. When you are out of the Smoke, they are the same, but radar sees you even in Smoke. When I see a radar cruiser getting near my cap, I usually go far away from that guy as possible, or bait him into using his radar, hightail out and return later when the radar duration runs out.

Basically, NEVER go to a cap as soon as the match starts. It's suicidal.

 

The game has changed a lot but many of the core mechanics or the older ship lines aren't adjusted accordingly. You can say whatever you like about anything, but in the end the problem is WG's handling of things. And they have been pretty bad at it.

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12 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Even if you are in matches with no CV, DDs will hang back too. And is that a CV problem?

First thing to do when I, yes, ME, come into a match is to check the team line-up before enter battle. Even more cautious when I play a DD (Kitakaze/Z-52/any other DD in that tier bracket) and the enemy team has ANY radar cruiser. Radar cruisers are more destructive than CVs because radar can see through Smoke and aircrafts cannot. When you are out of the Smoke, they are the same, but radar sees you even in Smoke. When I see a radar cruiser getting near my cap, I usually go far away from that guy as possible, or bait him into using his radar, hightail out and return later when the radar duration runs out.

Basically, NEVER go to a cap as soon as the match starts. It's suicidal.

 

The game has changed a lot but many of the core mechanics or the older ship lines aren't adjusted accordingly. You can say whatever you like about anything, but in the end the problem is WG's handling of things. And they have been pretty bad at it.

Interesting.

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I think you should first question yourself whether you are suited to play dd's at all. Before you question about CV's and so forth, you are severely lacking the match experience to be honest. 

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13 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

...

 

The game has changed a lot but many of the core mechanics or the older ship lines aren't adjusted accordingly. You can say whatever you like about anything, but in the end the problem is WG's handling of things. And they have been pretty bad at it.

ain't that so ; but so do players , WG do not force players to stay back lane but players themselves do so I count them just as guilty

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Just now, Mechfori said:

ain't that so ; but so do players , WG do not force players to stay back lane but players themselves do so I count them just as guilty

DDs need to play around the cap, not yolo into it, there's so many things that can easily kill a lone DD cap rushing that going in without either lots of experience or backup.

 

i far perfer a DD that stays alive to one that yolos in and dies within.333 the first 5 min, those shitters ought to lose credits to dissuade them from playing o badly that it's unsustainable 

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