Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
SidTheKnife

CV players griefing new players in low tiers

41 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Member
75 posts
2,030 battles

The low tier battles are plagued by too many CVs, but there is something even worse than having half of each team being CVs.

I am seeing CV players who are very good at aiming, obviously very well practised, playing the low tiers. Their enemy has no AA. They face no danger. This is subnormal conduct.

This is not something that the designers of the game want, clearly, but it is a predictable consequence of the class. CVs are a losers fantasy. At low tiers, it is 100% attack, without being attacked back. You can grief other players with no skill.

I have noticed that DDs have been essentially replaced by CSVs, even in the middle and upper tiers. The game is evolving to be rid of DDs.

CVs are not allowed in Clan Battles. Why? Because they are not tolerated by experienced players. Why? All the reasons everyone has always noted before.

This is a bullies class, a cowards class, of ship. It is not surprising that it is now being exploited by griefers at low tiers.

Do we really want to replace the DD class with CVs? 

There needs to be an "opt in" option for people who do not wish to be part of the terrible game design of CVs. Do not force normal people to associate with CV people. 

CVs are a failure. They are broken, and do not work. They are always first to attack, and last to be attacked. It is a class that attracts subnormals.

Please WG. Let Random Battles be like Clan Battles, and listen to the players.

Edited by SidTheKnife
  • Cool 6
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,610
[REPOI]
[REPOI]
Member
6,802 posts
28,909 battles
31 minutes ago, SidTheKnife said:

The low tier battles are plagued by too many CVs, but there is something even worse than having half of each team being CVs.

I am seeing CV players who are very good at aiming, obviously very well practised, playing the low tiers. Their enemy has no AA. They face no danger. This is subnormal conduct.

This is not something that the designers of the game want, clearly, but it is a predictable consequence of the class.

yes, that's what happens when you nerf all the high tier CVs to the floor and buff the hosho to the level where it can single-handedly break the backs of whole teams, players will gravitate to the better ships instead of the shitty ones.

31 minutes ago, SidTheKnife said:

Vs are a losers fantasy. At low tiers, it is 100% attack, without being attacked back. You can grief other players with no skill.

I have noticed that DDs have been essentially replaced by CSVs, even in the middle and upper tiers. The game is evolving to be rid of DDs

no, CVs and DDs have 1 overlapping trait, spotting. apart from that DDs are far far more fragil but vital to the team, area zoning, area denial, consistent spotting, extra utility such as hydro/smoke ect. 

im not going to say that CVs dont counter DDs pretty hard these days, but they aren't a replacement, nothing will ever truly ever replace DDs

and if we are going to talk about the downfall of the DD meta, it's been a thing since radar was introduced and now far more exaggerated with SAP being a thing

31 minutes ago, SidTheKnife said:

Vs are not allowed in Clan Battles. Why? Because they are not tolerated by experienced players. Why? All the reasons everyone has always noted before.

lmao no, and no one has ever proven that CVs were "OP" here, everyone who's claimed that has either based their arguments off false facts, overexertions and upset emotions. the reason that CVs were banned in CW is that they were too good at picking off stationary targets and solo flankers, which limits tactics in CW. (not to mention most clans lower than storm dont even have good CV players at all)

 

31 minutes ago, SidTheKnife said:

Do we really want to replace the DD class with CVs? 

There needs to be an "opt in" option for people who do not wish to be part of the terrible game design of CVs. Do not force normal people to associate with CV people. 

CVs are a failure. They are broken, and do not work. They are always first to attack, and last to be attacked. It is a class that attracts subnormals.

Please WG. Let Random Battles be like Clan Battles, and listen to the players.

that's the exact same argument that people used against IJN DDs in the early eras of the game, when RUDDs came out, and when BB spam was meta, and when RNBBs was the "OP firebending unkillable ships" ect ect. 

they're still in the game, they got less effective as the meta evolved, people learned to play against them, and nothing certainly came of calling their players.

Edited by drakon233
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
693
[MALD]
Member
712 posts
4,451 battles
35 minutes ago, SidTheKnife said:

CVs are a failure. They are broken, and do not work. They are always first to attack, and last to be attacked. It is a class that attracts subnormals.

I believe the first and second sentence are backlashing with the third sentence. It's exactly that advantage which completely negates other ship IRL, and makes carriers the dominating one today as the most effective, most working, and indeed overpowered in today's world :Smile_trollface:

But eh, i only speak in the logical, real-world provided facts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
75 posts
2,030 battles
3 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

 

lmao no, and no one has ever proven that CVs were "OP" here, everyone who's claimed that has either based their arguments off false facts, overexertions and upset emotions. the reason that CVs were banned in CW is that they were too good at picking off stationary targets and solo flankers, which limits tactics in CW. (not to mention most clans lower than storm dont even have good CV players at all)

 

I did not say that CVs were OP. They are simply a very, very poor piece of game design.

In any combat game, if one class is always attacking, never having to defend, and if it is always the first to attack and the last to be attacked, then that class is not "OP", it is badly designed. 

CVs are prohibited from Clan war battles because they destroy the game for everyone else.

Look, let us not forget that WG is an enterprise, a business. They are seeking the griefer dollar, and they are getting it. They are not the first gaming company to seek the griefer dollar. Look at CCP, and Eve online. A classic submarine simulator for greifers.

It is, in fact, true that CVs are displacing DDs in all tiers of Random battle.

The truth is, CV players have a special advantage and they like it that way. Others are forced to play with them in Random battles. In my opinion, this will discourage fair minded folks from playing DDs, which is a shame, because they are the fiery crucible.

Others may have different opinions. Mine is that CVs are so very badly unbalanced that they attract disreputable persons to them. It is enough to make a sober person turn to drink, or buy a Smolensk.

Carry on.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,472
Member
5,967 posts
9,915 battles

Why is my deja vu sense tingling? Perhaps I've seen this before... I cannot tell...

  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,610
[REPOI]
[REPOI]
Member
6,802 posts
28,909 battles
1 minute ago, SidTheKnife said:

I did not say that CVs were OP. They are simply a very, very poor piece of game design.

In any combat game, if one class is always attacking, never having to defend, and if it is always the first to attack and the last to be attacked, then that class is not "OP", it is badly designed. 

CVs are prohibited from Clan war battles because they destroy the game for everyone else.

Look, let us not forget that WG is an enterprise, a business. They are seeking the griefer dollar, and they are getting it. They are not the first gaming company to seek the griefer dollar. Look at CCP, and Eve online. A classic submarine simulator for greifers.

It is, in fact, true that CVs are displacing DDs in all tiers of Random battle.

The truth is, CV players have a special advantage and they like it that way. Others are forced to play with them in Random battles. In my opinion, this will discourage fair minded folks from playing DDs, which is a shame, because they are the fiery crucible.

Others may have different opinions. Mine is that CVs are so very badly unbalanced that they attract disreputable persons to them. It is enough to make a sober person turn to drink, or buy a Smolensk.

Carry on.

that's quite fair, though I would say that the impact on the game and it's players is more on a phycological level.

while CVs are powerful in the right hands, handling them to bring out their max potential requires a LOT of skill, especially map awareness and on the fly decision making, and even then they are inherently limited by the long rotation time for dealing out damage. not to mention the massive impact that MM can make to a CV's experience, if the enemy team has just 3 AA ships on each flank and near the middle they can render a CV useless without him banzaiing his squads for a single strike while even the most Meh surface ships can sit and spam people for damage. 

it's more the frustration of playing against them without seeing an actual "impact" done to a CV, many times even if a CV is almost fully deplaned not one singular player will notice the contribution they made in rendering the CV useless. which gives rise to a mentality of "he can hurt me but I can't hurt him back", ergo a sense of frustration.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
767
[SALT]
Member
2,139 posts
10,571 battles

CV and Seal club is basicly goes hand in hand since the game launch 🤣

even on the age when RTS midway, and Haku club TX. CV Sealclubber still the one stomping lower Tier.

I have meet not just one people, but multiple people. that have more battle than me at that time (he have like 8000 on Hosho with 90% something winrate) 🤣 -

Seal cluber or Smurfing (as it known in other games - WoWs comunity use seal club instead as you dont need to use alt account nor there Skill bassed Brackets to bully lesser player) never born from Certain class/Hero/Unit is OP or balans or what not. But skill and experience diffrence betwen Players. There always a Gamer that like to Play lowest difficulty afterall :Smile_trollface:

The fact was not AA problem and whatnot. but that lower tier simply easier to get win and carry. :fish_haloween: 

Edited by humusz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,212 posts
11,077 battles
22 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

that's quite fair, though I would say that the impact on the game and it's players is more on a phycological level.

To a degree yes, then there is the side effects of CV's from their planes and fighters spotting everything all the time.

 

25 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

while CVs are powerful in the right hands, handling them to bring out their max potential requires a LOT of skill, especially map awareness and on the fly decision making, and even then they are inherently limited by the long rotation time for dealing out damage.

No different to a torp boat DD.

26 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

not to mention the massive impact that MM can make to a CV's experience, if the enemy team has just 3 AA ships on each flank and near the middle they can render a CV useless without him banzaiing his squads for a single strike while even the most Meh surface ships can sit and spam people for damage.

Again, no different to playing DD with a radar/hydro packed MM. You see the issue there dont you? By your own words it takes 9 ships to hard counter a CV. How is that ok?

30 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

it's more the frustration of playing against them without seeing an actual "impact" done to a CV, many times even if a CV is almost fully deplaned not one singular player will notice the contribution they made in rendering the CV useless. which gives rise to a mentality of "he can hurt me but I can't hurt him back", ergo a sense of frustration

Yeah it is frustrating to not be able to disengage in a BB coz your perma plane spotted. Or you lose half your HP in a DD coz you got plane spotted while trying to contest key map areas. No matter what you and others have said, you cant avoid a CV's planes if he wants to spot you in a DD. Eventually if youre doing your DD duty you have to contest caps etc.

How often is a CV actually deplaned? Killing 10 planes vs losing half of your HP from drops and spotting is NEVER going to sit well with anyone for obvious reasons. Now if the CV actually got sunk or lost HP for each plane he lost we might have a more level playing field.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
914
[SMOKE]
Member
2,840 posts
18,844 battles

In the end and especially at low to mid tier with plenty of multiple CV games it is simply a fact that the game, the mechanism, and MM is griefing other players for CV players easy gain with practically no counter play possible.

DD of course suffer the most cause but its just the same for CA CL & BB but they had tolerably manageble armor hp and AA 

Is the game fair for these surface ships players when they are MM and spec to fail ; its not about how CV can be or need to be played ; its about how all the surface ships players simply unable even to play the game 

 

Edited by Mechfori
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,610
[REPOI]
[REPOI]
Member
6,802 posts
28,909 battles
 
 
 
 
2
31 minutes ago, dieselhead said:

Again, no different to playing DD with a radar/hydro packed MM. You see the issue there dont you? By your own words it takes 9 ships to hard counter a CV. How is that ok?

i might have worded that wrong, i takes 3 AA ships, one on each flank

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,610
[REPOI]
[REPOI]
Member
6,802 posts
28,909 battles
 
 
 
 
2
32 minutes ago, dieselhead said:

To a degree yes, then there is the side effects of CV's from their planes and fighters spotting everything all the time.

again, he's giving up damage while the enemy CV whittles down your teammates, it's a rats race for damage and while you can spare some time to spot some people, you cant do it on a consistent basis 

33 minutes ago, dieselhead said:

No different to a torp boat DD.

torpboats relies on luck and they still have more utility and FAR more consistent spotting, not to mention the zoneing and capping

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,023
[OAKUM]
Member
2,135 posts
17,578 battles

As they stand now, I'm pretty happy with the way CVs are now..., having said that, there are WAY too many CVs in T 3-4 games, & most of them are multi-clubbing hoshos...  & Sid is right by saying they are killing off the newer players before they can learn the game properly... Its OK for us veterans (well in a way) because we know what to expect.... But to the rest of the team its horribly demoralising , when the game loads up & there's 3 CVs per match, very regularly... Even worse when the CV players know their ships, & all they do is stat-pad their CV battle rates, because they know at low tier, there is hardly any AA...

To solve the issue & stop potentionally losing the newer players, WG need to do a couple of things:

Nerf the Hosho from being able to do more than 1 attack per launch.

Hard set the MM to not allow more than 1 CV per match at T 3- 4.

Allow MM to have up to 3 CVs in T6-7-8 matches, where ships have at least some AA to deal with 3 CVs.... This is really where the CV concentration should be, so they can learn which ships to pick on, refine tactics,  & be a use to the team (instead of being a selfish twat on a damage farming mission)

Having tried out a few games & training in a new CV, I know how hard it can be trying to drop bombs, launch torpedoes & rocket planes, its not my cup of tea, but at least I know what they have to go through, & I also did it to try & refine my counter measures... In that sense it has been enlightening...

So this is my 2 cents... Agree or disagree if you wish...

:Smile_child:

See you out there...

 

Ordrazz

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,924
[-CAT-]
Member
3,836 posts
14,580 battles
56 minutes ago, Ordrazz said:

Allow MM to have up to 3 CVs in T6-7-8 matches, where ships have at least some AA to deal with 3 CVs.... This is really where the CV concentration should be, so they can learn which ships to pick on, refine tactics,  & be a use to the team (instead of being a selfish twat on a damage farming mission)

2 is enough. 3 is a crowd.

Besides, the MM is always drunk. Putting one T6 and two T8 CV will still make the new players quit.

One CV lock per side on T4-T5 games, let the hatchlings get comfortable with the game.

Since at T5 we get + / - 2 MM, two CV lock per side from a T6 game onwards. At least still making it comfortable for the hatchlings to be battlehardened to get used to the game.

Edited by S0und_Theif
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
619
[AN-DO]
Member
759 posts
11,085 battles

1) We get it OP, you hate CVs, and think they are cowardly. All your other threads are about the same thing and its starting to get a bit tedious and repetitive to see them keep popping up on the forums. WG aren't going to change things for you so you'll have to learn to adapt - it's a pretty important skill in life too.  As many of the most experienced players here have repeatedly pointed out to you low tier CV issue is about MM and AA balance on T3 and T4 ships, not an issue with the class itself.

2) CVs have not replaced DDs at high tiers because as @drakon233 mentioned they have key abilities that CVs don't like capping and area denial that are key to winning games.

3)  you say WG needs to listen to the players and remove CVs yet in this thread alone there seems to be a lot of players happy to keep CVs.

4) If you want people to listen to your arguments try reasoned explanations and viable solutions rather than name calling. I know plenty of players who play both CVs and DDs, they are not cowards nor are they a separate group as you seem to try and claim. History's worst moments have been filled with instances of people being separated into different groups and maligned as inferior or different. I would caution you from following that course.


As for real solutions to the problems with CV MM down at T4, I really like your idea @Ordrazz That multiple CV games should really be moved to the mid tiers since there are good AA ships there and its a much better place for players of all ships, not just CVs, to hone their skills and pick up the more advanced strategies. T4 CVs cant even deploy fighters which become a useful tool to them later in the game. Much better to prolong the CV play at T6 and T8 and allow new players down at T4/T3 a bit more space to breath so they aren't put off by the game

 

Edited by blauflamme22
  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,565
[TLS]
Member
5,195 posts
21,710 battles

Once again, like a parrot, problem starts at T10. Whine whine whine etc2. 

T10 CV caps. Problem now spills over into T8.

Now T8 has problem. Whine whine whine etc2. 

T8 CV caps. Problem now spills over into T6.

Now T6 has problem. Whine whine whine etc2.

T6 CV caps. Problem now spills over into T4.

Now T4 has problem. Whine whine whine etc2.

T4 CV caps. Problem now spills over into T2.

Now T2 has problem. Wait. There is no T2 CV. 

ThishasgottobetheeasiestexplainationIhavedone.Copypasta.

You can nerf, then beginner will no longer want to play CV. What was CV rework supposed to do again? Oh yes, encourage new CV players. That much I have to agree has been acheived. But at what cost?

Hard caps? Well there is this lame excuse that wg loves to throw around called "waiting times". And if hard caps are in place you can argue that other classes should be in place. Like how every match should not have more than 3BBs. Period. 

And just to piss dddrivers off, by right, one good big shell hit from a BB should wipe out a DD. or a CA. What has happened is a lot of liberties have been taken to "BALANS" the game. Seriously, DD tactics should be mass and swarm. Which I am not going to get into because that will be another TL;DR post by iteslf. The whole reason dds exist in the real world situation is that they are a hell lot cheaper and economical to maintain in a navy. Easier to sacrifice. (WHACK! BAD DG! I SAID STOP!)

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,472
Member
5,967 posts
9,915 battles
23 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

But at what cost?

Why do you think like me? Who allowed you? Even if you're allowed, how dare you?

Edited by Paladinum
  • Funny 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
914
[SMOKE]
Member
2,840 posts
18,844 battles

Well as a DD main I would not mind the game swarm DD as in real world but can they likewise then for reality check CV need to position themselves something like 180 / 200 km from the front and at best only avble to sortie 1 flight ...

I repeatingly state this its a game so each and every player should be given equal chance to play and excel and be rewarded ..its clearly not so now and CV gaming mechanism and MM is A big cause to that ... Don't tell me you guys do not know about the 4DD max and 1CV max limit we had at high tiers ..if WG sees that for season players even they would need this limit its hard to reason why training low to mid tier do not and yes I do agree these same limit should be applied to number of BB and number of radar per game

And all the argument about DD not obsolete by CV is a moot as the game do not reward the said tactical task mentioned in fact it negatively incentive these task especially with CV present ... its stated that only 1 AA ship needed on any flank &  center to hard counter CV what it do not mention is that all other surface ships are then by spec locked out to free sail and do their parts or lock tied to that AA platform 

CV and CV player themselves are not to be blamed its the overall faulted mechanism ; lack of proper counterplay ; and overall allowing overpopulation of any ship class ( in this case CV ) in a single game 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,565
[TLS]
Member
5,195 posts
21,710 battles
1 hour ago, Paladinum said:

Why do you think like me? Who allowed you? Even if you're allowed, how dare you?

I have been carefully pondering on the appropriate response and cannot come to the conclusion. Either it is 1) Thiopentol 2) Word of Stalin 3) Both 4) Mind Control 5) Aliens 6) more creativity on the way.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,023
[OAKUM]
Member
2,135 posts
17,578 battles
4 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

I have been carefully pondering on the appropriate response and cannot come to the conclusion. Either it is 1) Thiopentol 2) Word of Stalin 3) Both 4) Mind Control 5) Aliens 6) more creativity on the way.

Most definitely Aliens..... Without a solitary doubt.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
276
[TF44]
Member
399 posts
5,258 battles

It's a never ending cycle. New player get obliterated by CVs. New player thinks CVs are OP. New player plays CV. Rinse and repeat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,472
Member
5,967 posts
9,915 battles
48 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

Well as a DD main I would not mind the game swarm DD as in real world but can they likewise then for reality check CV need to position themselves something like 180 / 200 km from the front and at best only avble to sortie 1 flight ...

I think some players told me when the game was in alpha/beta, 'DDs' were 4-ship group played by one player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×