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Nagatooneechan

Winrate mean nothing (just my opinion)

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Just wanna share some thought. After the match yesterday I convinced win rate mean nothing in this game.. There are more uncontrollable variable that influencing every match (RNG, noob team consist of bot and afk, luck) than controllable one (individual skill based on experience). Right now the most important thing just to play every ship according to its specialty and enjoy the game without thinking about stats at all.

P.S. Beside sharing my thought I also want to train my english writing skill here.

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/me calls in the popcorn strike.
/me sets up the sofa.
/me invites interested people to join in and watch the ensuing fun.

BYO.

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Some people may think that. But Win rate can be also used to determine how you carry your team or help your team to victory besides PR (Personal Rating). But, WR is like the "currency" in our game. To join clan for example. If you have a bad WR, it is likely most clans will reject you. 

But having  good WR but bad PR isn't a good thing either. Most people will think that this kind of player is just carried by their team or divisions. All things need to be balanced.

Edited by I_401
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well AFAIC, winrate is just bragging right for those who are too into these kind of stat ; the numbers do not really translate into good play for any players which ever way

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41 minutes ago, I_401 said:

Some people may think that. But Win rate can be also used to determine how you carry your team or help your team to victory besides PR (Personal Rating). But, WR is like the "currency" in our game. To join clan for example. If you have a bad WR, it most likely most clans will reject you. 

But having  good WR but bad PR isn't a good thing either. Most people will think that this kind of player is just carried by their team or divisions. All things need to be balanced.

WR as currency for clan, hmm agree... maybe I miss that one (my clan been dead for such a long time, the leader and deputy been away for year so there is a lot of unusable oil resources). 

As for PR, I feel it depend on luck too especially for old lonewolf like me. Every 10 win streak there will be 10 lose streak and repeat. Lose sometime mean do more damage but there also time when it make player could'nt do their best cause don't have chance to do it (team lose too fast). Play the game from 2016 but never doing division up until few weeks ago. Never do operation (cause at first I thought it really serious thing) until end of 2018 and never know how to use static crosshair until few months ago (just using feeling when fire the gun at range using BB, my main shipline).  Never do ranked until last rank battle (same reason as operation) As for clan i invited out of nowhere and just accept it without much consideration. Basically I do more than 2000 battle (mostly random) without anything above... just recently I play this game for "real"

Edited by Nagatooneechan

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11 minutes ago, Nagatooneechan said:

WR as currency for clan, hmm agree... maybe I miss that one (my clan been dead for such a long time, the leader and deputy been away for year so there is a lot of unusable oil resources). 

As for PR, I feel it depend on luck too especially for old lonewolf like me. Every 10 win streak there will be 10 lose streak and repeat. Lose sometime mean do more damage but there also time when it make player could'nt do their best cause don't have chance to do it (team lose too fast). Play the game from 2016 but never doing division up until few weeks ago. Never do operation (cause at first I thought it really serious thing) until end of 2018 and never now how to use static crosshair until few months ago (just using feeling when fire the gun at range using BB, my main shipline).  Never do ranked until last rank battle (same reason as operation) As for clan i invited out of nowhere and just accept it without much consideration. Basically I do more than 2000 battle (mostly random) without anything above... just recently I play this game for "real"

you should check their recruitment requirements and see how real it is :Smile_hiding:

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The importance of WR is so grossly inflated you can get trashtalked just because you have WR below a certain point.

Achievement culture, I guess.

 

Even if you always perform very well yourself... potato teams will be potato teams. Some don't even listen.

If you perform like a potato and still get high WR because of the team, is that really your performance?

Edited by Paladinum
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3 minutes ago, Lowyat said:

you should check their recruitment requirements and see how real it is :Smile_hiding:

hmm,, maybe when I finished my last ship type line (the DD) 'am going to apply to more "Serious" clan

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Umm...are you implying the goal of each match is NOT to win? Because WR is the literal measure of that.

However you can try to argue that, your ability to win in random matches, may not carry over well to other modes.

You're welcome to suggest a better metric.

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Yes and no.

Yes, winrate means nothing if you just want to enjoy the game and have fun in ships.

No, winrate is the most important stat if you even remotely care about winning the match and your skill level as a player. Because no other stat is more important than winrate, since the entire objective of a match is to win it, not farm damage or whatever.

So ultimately it depends on what kind of player you are. Do you care about about your standing as a player? If yes, then winrate means everything. If no, then it means nothing.

Edited by Thyaliad
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Except the OP seems to be trying to imply WR doesn't matter because its luck based.

You don't have to really care about WR as a stat itself or be competitive, but you should at least be making some effort towards winning as the main goal.

Otherwise we'd be implying how all the people farming damage on easy targets, those who play for individual score and only helping the team by accident, is perfectly good behaviour.

There is a frustration among players because not everyone is playing towards the same goal, although its WG's fault for not better aligning those 2 goals.

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All things being equal, and matchmaker being truly random, over time you W/R will reflect your ability to carry a team.

You will always have teams that cannot be carried even by the best player, but, sooner or later MM will even out everything and you'll be in teams you can carry. If you're good at the game, you'll be better able to compensate for the poorer players in your team, and the higher your W/R will be.

Of course, that's over time, and assuming that MM will put you in as many good teams as bad.

That said, I don't especially care about W/R. I play as well as I can in any given game. Course, I'm a sub 50% W/R, so of course I would say that :Smile_trollface:

Then there's all the RNG in the game. 

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:Smile_popcorn::Smile_popcorn::cap_rambo:

Getting some meat to roast:fish_viking:

 

It's like asking an university: "Why can't I study law? I did the final exam in year 12 / F7/whatever the last year of high school in your country -  and get some mark, just about 50% less than that guy before me. Why discriminate me? scores, marks, or points? doesn't matter, I can study as hard as him anyways."

University C&P response and suggests you to choose art.

you: "Ram you and your discrimination over poor incapable student."

 

P.S. If you don't care about Win rate why bother argue about it?

Edited by spixys

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1 hour ago, Verytis said:

Umm...are you implying the goal of each match is NOT to win? Because WR is the literal measure of that.

However you can try to argue that, your ability to win in random matches, may not carry over well to other modes.

You're welcome to suggest a better metric.

Nope. There is individual and team goal for each match in my opinion. Team goal always mean "winning". But for individual, I think it depend on every captain personality. For me the goal of every match is getting closer to the historical ship that I want (exp focus) and of course do good (or maybe the right thing) so people around the team will have fun either when winning or lossing the match. It seems to me winning the game is like "firing long range, easy to spot torpedo from japanese DD" that if it hit enemy ship count as bonus as they could be changing direction at all time when those fish run, in other word something you could'nt control directly (but experience could fix it a little bit). Especially when you play on weekend..,, a long losing streak even at the operation scenario sometime. Maybe preplanned ranked battle (where there only a few player involved) is the only gamemode where WR could be counted as "real" indicator of good player according to me (of course).

Edited by Nagatooneechan

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1 hour ago, Verytis said:

Except the OP seems to be trying to imply WR doesn't matter because its luck based.

You don't have to really care about WR as a stat itself or be competitive, but you should at least be making some effort towards winning as the main goal.

Otherwise we'd be implying how all the people farming damage on easy targets, those who play for individual score and only helping the team by accident, is perfectly good behaviour.

There is a frustration among players because not everyone is playing towards the same goal, although its WG's fault for not better aligning those 2 goals.

Yes I implying winrate does'nt matter cause there is many uncontrollable variable but not necessarily translated that I play to lose... it just like I don't care be it win or lose as long it fun for all who participate (funnily I regard my karma higher than winrate cause of that I very rarely play as CV in random... even I just grind dd line recently cause of same problem) and I play my favorite ship.

You could check my winrate which I think not so bad (it ever fall to 43-45% W in the past)

Edited by Nagatooneechan

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1 hour ago, S0und_Theif said:

Got room for 1 more? 

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i need a big one pls 

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2 hours ago, Onlinegamer said:

i need a big one pls 

Only in JP and PH I see these big fries. Not sure in other countries.

 

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3 hours ago, Verytis said:

You don't have to really care about WR as a stat itself or be competitive, but you should at least be making some effort towards winning as the main goal.

Otherwise we'd be implying how all the people farming damage on easy targets, those who play for individual score and only helping the team by accident, is perfectly good behaviour.

There is a frustration among players because not everyone is playing towards the same goal, although its WG's fault for not better aligning those 2 goals.

Good points.

Personally I think that while everybody plays games for different reasons, when playing in a team game with other players, one has a moral obligation to not be a burden on one's team. And that means working towards a win and not being selfish. You don't have to be unicum, just as long as you can carry your own weight and work toward's the team's goals. Hell, even carrying your own weight is not strictly necessary, as long as you are sincerely trying to help the team to win. Because if you can't put your team's needs ahead of your own, then you shouldn't be playing a team game imo.

I realise not everybody may agree with this "moral obligation", but this is just the set values I was brought up with and believe in.

2 hours ago, Nagatooneechan said:

Yes I implying winrate does'nt matter cause there is many uncontrollable variable

That is the wrong mindset though.

While there are many uncontrolled variables, your skill can influence the outcome of the match. And over the course of hundreds and thousands of games, your skill level will reflect in your winrate. (Unless you are telling me that you don't really care about trying to win for your team, which is a different matter altogether.)

Look at it this way. You can win about 30% of your games even if you go afk every match. You can also lose about 30% of your games no matter how well you played. However it is the remaining 40% of your games which are decided by your skill level. It is those games in which you can look back and safely say that your team would have lost if a less skilled player than you was playing. It is those 40% of games that are reflected in your winrate. That is why even bots can have around a 30-40% winrate, and unicums seldom get higher than a 60% solo winrate.

Edited by Thyaliad
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As a solo player(most of the time).I value average exp and  damage more.Because in many cases, one player has too limited effect on the winning compared to three reliable people in a division.You can't stop others from teaming up or stop your teammates from sinking too quickly.But I think it's not too hard to get enough exp and damage as long as the game doesnt end too fast.At the same time when you do a lot of things for the team or deal much damage,usually you wont own a terrible overal winrate.

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Over a small sample size I agree. Say < 200

Over a large sample size I disagree.

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3 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

Good points.

Personally I think that while everybody plays games for different reasons, when playing in a team game with other players, one has a moral obligation to not be a burden on one's team. And that means working towards a win and not being selfish. You don't have to be unicum, just as long as you can carry your own weight and work toward's the team's goals. Hell, even carrying your own weight is not strictly necessary, as long as you are sincerely trying to help the team to win. Because if you can't put your team's needs ahead of your own, then you shouldn't be playing a team game imo.

I realise not everybody may agree with this "moral obligation", but this is just the set values I was brought up with and believe in.

That is the wrong mindset though.

While there are many uncontrolled variables, your skill can influence the outcome of the match. And over the course of hundreds and thousands of games, your skill level will reflect in your winrate. (Unless you are telling me that you don't really care about trying to win for your team, which is a different matter altogether.)

Look at it this way. You can win about 30% of your games even if you go afk every match. You can also lose about 30% of your games no matter how well you played. However it is the remaining 40% of your games which are decided by your skill level. It is those games in which you can look back and safely say that your team would have lost if a less skilled player than you was playing. It is those 40% of games that are reflected in your winrate. That is why even bots can have around a 30-40% winrate, and unicums seldom get higher than a 60% solo winrate.

Just like I said from analogy before which taken from "Japanese DD torpedo", experience = skill could help to actually "hit" something at range but it rarely the case when you play it solo. I'm agreeing with what @LitScheR said. Also you stated that normally player have about 40-60% winrate except unicum which you said if played solo seldom past 60% (I play solo all the time and consider myself average player, only div twice with same person when playing twilight battle) so yeah,, winrate does'nt matter then as the range not so far ahead at each end. I think PR is more important than WR as a stat if we want to see real player skill. Btw it's only my opinion, thanks for your's. (Hope my english understandable, hehe)

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51 minutes ago, Nagatooneechan said:

..... I think PR is more important than WR as a stat if we want to see real player skill.....

But why would I play to increase my PR when the objective is WR?

I could play to increase my PR but that would mean sacrificing my WR. Playing PR is selfish.

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