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IJN_Katori

They seems to focus on Submarines rather than Game Balance

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Lets just discuss this seriously, they probably nerf the CVs again and yet the rework is being a fail (now i can agree with this more than anything)

 

Fighters are more useless and CV being Auto-Consumables is just pathetic, who knows?

 

Maybe they should fire one of their staff and Re-rework the Carriers with their Fighters back, Also make it RTS Hybrid, like the one on Battlestations Pacific, give Plane Controls and Carriers Secondary guns as their main guns.

 

Also, Nullify the Fire 5 Second rule, they should had at least like the one with the ships with 60 seconds of fire, also increase the flooding time by 30 seconds.

Edited by BIGCOREMKP0I

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My question is whether WG really give enough scrap about CVs at all, whether they just put them in simply because of the "historical ship type".

Sure CVs are popular now, but at what cost lol

 

Edited by Paladinum
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2 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

My question is whether WG really give enough scrap about CVs at all, whether they just put them in simply because of the "historical ship type".

Sure CVs are popular now, but at what cost lol

 

 

@Paladinum They probably using it as an EXCUSE for nerfing the CV alot than to re-overhaul the rework, Strange.

 

 

Autoconsumables are Heresy and Disgusting, Bring back RTS but in a hybrid way.

Edited by BIGCOREMKP0I
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I feel like they are rushing the game. I just can't point out what and why they are rushing.

Rushing things can and will cause harm sooner or later in any software programming. Not to mention not paying attention to bugs and issues.

At least that's what I feel why they negletced a lot of things in the game.

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3 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

I feel like they are rushing the game. I just can't point out what and why they are rushing.

Rushing things can and will cause harm sooner or later in any software programming. Not to mention not paying attention to bugs and issues.

At least that's what I feel why they negletced a lot of things in the game.

Despite all of their advantages, they still have their flaws, as in CV

 

yet they focus on Submarines and STILL nerfing CV Economy, they should REALLY pay attention on the re-rework than the other stuff.

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4 minutes ago, BIGCOREMKP0I said:

yet they focus on Submarines and STILL nerfing CV Economy, they should REALLY pay attention on the re-rework than the other stuff.

Which is dissapointing, I was going to give the ree-work a try, but with a negative economy, I might stop using CV. It is not fun.

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CV rework was rushed, that's obvious to so many people.

RTS CVs basically griefed everyone but the CV unicums, rework CVs also griefed everyone, sometimes including the CV players. That Reddit thread shows it and the writer is obviously a biased, grievous CV player LOL

You can play one ship type and still talk about others, but when you start to argue for your ship type, your bias WILL show and makes your arguments much less convincing.

I always hate it when people say "AA requires no skill" (and "secondary requires no skill"). AA and sec should be automated systems so players can focus on other things. Since 0.8.0, AA has been buffed and mechanics changed a few times to a point it simplifies a lot and can be somewhat overpowering (IMO not much). Secondary on the other hand requires a lot of investment and skill, but the reward isn't worth the risk. 

There is much grief in this playerbase, players of certain ship types hating on other ship types that naturally counter them :fish_book:

Just for the records, while I can be utterly indifferent about CVs vs other ship types, I really hate the "just dodge"/"git gud" thing. It's condescending to other players. Ever try to "just dodge" in a German BB?

I'm not even saying "bring back RTS CVs", I'm don't want to say anything about CVs at all after the rework. I take this back. I wanna make dank memes about it.

 

28 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

I feel like they are rushing the game. I just can't point out what and why they are rushing.

Rushing things can and will cause harm sooner or later in any software programming. Not to mention not paying attention to bugs and issues.

At least that's what I feel why they negletced a lot of things in the game.

The game version isn't 1.0.0 yet, lol

Edited by Paladinum

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I'm certain that there will be no ship type gameplay rework in the future, except for more CV reworks :fish_book:

 

2 minutes ago, BIGCOREMKP0I said:

@S0und_Theif@Paladinum AA Flak still crap as is as now, even though they are REWORKING it :Smile_trollface:

Where's my NTC/RB rework?

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4 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Where's my NTC/RB rework?

NTC / RB Ree-move.

If the dry dock concept is successful, NTC / RB Ree-place.

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2 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

NTC / RB Ree-move.

If the dry dock concept is successful, NTC / RB Ree-place.

Well my NTC/RB rework is simple: 

 

 

Also this:

 

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8 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Well my NTC/RB rework is simple: 

 

 

Also this:

 

Me getting old.

Your ree-work, I up vote.

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NTC / Trash Heap was even more of a Rush than Regia Marina Does.

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Cause WG believe new content attracts/retains players more than gameplay.

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How to be the victim of your own success

1st Become more popular than you expected as in way more popular. Be bought out by a 'big' name. This causes an increase in a mass amount release of dopamine (the drug of choice of the day) This can be very addictive ask any sports super star one day playing in a stadium full of people come to see them with a mass tv coverage to boot, nek minute, retire, 'who are you again' so they start 'chasing' sport stars chase the next adrenaline rush. WOW its about  the next surge in popularity numbers ( recruit someone and we reward you....)For WOW its no longer a surprise to be popular instead its its expected and when not growing its the naval gazing time starts 'what are we doing wrong'

2nd This leads to who we are vs who we could be when Mc donalds started to get more competition they started to 'chase' customers with new products etc, this continued for years until they realised they lost their identity (burger joint) and were trying to be everything to everyone and not succeeding and losing market share. so they started to cut back on the amount of products (sound familiar). Realise the market is finite  people/time/money

3d when you become successful people feel a sense of ownership so when systems/ships change this leads to 'what are you doing to my game? Vent ....'

To WOW's credit ( I do think they do listen but there are so many voices to listen to, ranging from hate to 'i've had a few too many' and just blowing steam to productive feed back to trolling etc......) how to decipher this information with cultural context. example Kiwi's when talking and giving feedback can be interpreted by other cultures as cutting/abrupt/rude. Where for Kiwis are understanding the context 'joke' etc. Like when you see a brother and sister talk to each other and you can be like 'dude that was harsh'....and they're laughing at whats been said. I've noticed asians don't like the f word etc yet NA they are all saying it and slap talking etc

CVs are most popular in SEA minimal play in EU and close to non inexistent in NA, even if they put more time in is worth it for WOW. They are a business if they are not making money they are losing it....

Personally I think WOW need to look at there mission statement and ask them selves what are we...

What can we do

This is a hard game to learn and play armour thickness/fire range/arc/radar etc ranting at people that they are noobs as a put down well where are you suppose to learn? If we want more players maybe try letting them know some basics like bow in etc

I was thinking maybe a good beginners guide would be helpful to give newbies an idea of game style example Brawler - German BBs, designed to tank while the support ships deal to the red bbs etc.  I think this would really help for beginners so they can see which ship line to invest in. This would be best when people download the game to have this guide, it may take people a while to find this forum 

Brawler (had a few beers win\lose who cares, playing for fun)                                                                                                                                                                    Tactical (I want to outwit and stealth them)                                                                                                                                                                                                          Long range supporter Idon't want to push but will support when needed                                                                                                                                                               Assassin (stealth and devastate)                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Ambusher - Light cruisers with radar etc                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Game Styles                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Team (Its all about the team even if I don't get big damage)                                                                                                                                                                            Farmer (team? I'm here to get as much dpm as poss and if we win bonus)

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I get a kaga, it gets nerfed nerfed and now nerfed again.

Currently, they are continuously nerfing it in ways they dont expect players to notice, but I do, and not announcing the nerfs (afaik).

Now I fly my torp planes to expect each torpedo hit to do up to 2k dmg (DD torps will do 15-20k).

And the torpedo arming indicator has "mysteriously" been extended as I drop my fish in the water, I must do so from further away from target than I used to.

Fun fact, a russian BB Sinop and Vlad can BOTH now dodge my torps even if they weren't turning at the time of the drop. Take the hit on the belt and hey it's just a scratch.

I need approx 20 torpedo hits in a game to get 40-45k torpedo dmg.

And the torpedo protection belts of BBs have become so much more effective, there is NO WAY with the LONGGGGG torpedo arming time, that a cv player can aim their torpedoes at a bow or stern section, and the incredible turning agility the BBs have now "found".

And while I'm here, I'll just let you non CV players know how much AA bursts, the chaos of the attack, smoke, fire etc makes it impossible to even SEE a target ship at certain times when attacking with rockets or bombs.

It's not as easy as you think.

I love the CV rework gamestyle, not a huge fan of the nerfing to find balance, and I look forward to submarines.

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The problem I see it after a few years playing this is that the devs are listening to a vocal minority clamouring for content. Content is fine but the way they are doing it is like rushing to release "content" every 3 months or so without doing the proper due diligence testing.

CV fiasco is a prime example I like to use because:
1) announce 4 months from year's end (iirc)
2) implement testing about a month later
3) hard release date of January
4) 3 limited sessions of "beta" testing of a game in beta
5) Feedback regarding issues that are not resolved prior to release since there is a "commitment to that hard release date"

The same can be said of Italian cruisers.

The game is basically catering to those few that have "finished" the game and have nothing better to do with their life. I know some of you are like me and own like at least 150+ of the ships in the game and apart from blowing off snowflakes, how often do you regularly use a ship. By regular I mean like you will play it every other time you log in and this does not include ships that you are grinding. Most of my fleet sit rusting.

The excuses given: "remove skill gap", "there is no issue with MM", "our useless spreadsheets say" are pathetic to say the least. As @Paladinum puts it about the "git gud" replies from the player base, these sort of replies I will just ignore because it does nothing to resolve the primary underlying issues in the game; they only serve to cover it in a veneer of normalcy.

I was reading a comment in a Utimate Admirals: Dreadnoughts youtube video last night and this caught my eye:
 


"Sadly WoWs did more damage for naval combat perception due it's many IDIOTIC in game mechanisms (mad HE spam which could turn Yamato in to burning crisp by FREAKING CLEMSON class DD if she would be lucky enough, Citadel crits system which in fact forced the ship to sail with its bow AIMED at the enemy otherwise you risking insta destruction due "citadel penetration" instead of DESIGNED for combat ship full broadside, ect...) than I would ever suspect when first closed beta of it was started...
Hell, even Gaijin with its Naval Forces did a far better job than WG."


This is in reply to the player building a BC to "HE spam a BB to death".

Basically the game has no instructional book about how to effectively play apart from "do not show broadside" and "dpm always wins". Frankly, the instructional videos are informative, but next to useless. Much of what I learnt about bowtanking, torpedobeats come from watching a few youtube videos here and there and then taking the concepts and then practicing it like hell. 1K+ games in a Desu and learning how to angle, use its AP shells and what sized guns not to go against even when angling is what I took out of the games. Nearly 1K games in a Zao learning how to pray when I turn to get my torps off, learn to snipe accurately and how being a stealth ninja is good. Please ignore my yamato, that was back in the early days when I ground out my first complete line.

The issue is basically the majority of the player base are casual players. They are not going to spend tens or hundreds of hours reading the technical manual or finding out by trial and error how to best play. Each ship has it own peculiarities. A Kremlin does not play like a France. You can't play a Zao like a DM. Bowtank in a DD and you are asking for a quick death. Okay, that last one was a stupid comparison.

The ones that make the most noise are a few minority who I can say, are like hooked onto the game. That fortunately, or unfortunately, includes the us lot that make forums a busy place. That said, the sane subset of this group is even smaller.

Right now, I couldn't careless anymore how the game is burning itself to the ground. Yes, it may be maintaining the numbers but what about the profibility and the long term welfare of the game? FYI, the premium shop is geared towards the people who "do not want to live the tedium of grinding and wasting hours in the game and their time is more valuable than that one click purchase". Granted, there are those that want an edge and it caters to them as well.

And let's not get into that NTC crap. I'd be raving the same thing as in the previous threads.

Just to end this TL;DR rant, skills based MM, "why not just give it a try" just like the pro-wg faction love to say about cv rework and how good it is and we should be giving it a try.

PS. As evidence for skills based MM: Does Manchester United (or Liverpool) play against pub football teams most of the time?

 

Edited by dejiko_nyo
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@Dread_Pirate_BlackHeartYou summed up how I feel about current CVs. Returns of the effort needed is pathetic.

I will say this to shut up the people that say "play more CV, you will eventually get better" and the similar crowd: This fiasco rework CVs I now play much better than at the beginning. I drop payloads with minimal visual cues/assistance and it is only through suffering through many, many games that I learnt how to compensate for the lack good targeting markers. The reticles are useless when you have to think about dodging. Getting proficient in it is one thing. Actually liking it is another. The skills gap in CV is back. FYI, skills gap WILL always exist. The only way to mitigate it is to seperate them out into similar groups.

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1 hour ago, dejiko_nyo said:

As @Paladinum puts it about the "git gud" replies from the player base, these sort of replies I will just ignore because it does nothing to resolve the primary underlying issues in the game; they only serve to cover it in a veneer of normalcy.

Yeah please try to "git gud" when the ship you're playing is unplayable in the current meta and depends heavily on the enemy's mistakes/poor play. The current Pasta cruisers are a good example.

Edited by Paladinum

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Hard question is. do the staff listens our complain shere being CVs overnerf?

Yes probably

 

 

It won't take a matter of time since the submarines will be super nerfed after its beta 

 

 

and again, like the CV Test. its has less testing rounds so you CAN'T figure it out.

 

 

They should really focus on the AA and buff the Carrier's planes, and simply NO AUTOCONSUMABLES, just like Nobilium got removed from halloween, Shame for the WG Staff that she didnt appear this year.

Edited by BIGCOREMKP0I

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15 minutes ago, BIGCOREMKP0I said:

Hard question is. do the staff listens our complain shere being CVs overnerf?

The next question is: what are they gonna do about it?

The usual answer is "pretty much nothing" and "make excuses of why they are doing pretty much nothing". This applies to serious complains like MM.

Edited by Paladinum

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I honestly don't get the OP's opinion.  The game has some individual ship balance problems, but so does basically every game ever made - it's very difficult to balance a huge number of individual units in a highly complex game, and there will inevitably be levels of imbalance.  The criticism I'd give WG here is that they tend to be a bit slow to rebalance ships that seem clearly unbalanced, but I also understand the reasoning behind that - they would rather be slow to make a change and give themselves the data to get it more correct than they otherwise would, and minimise the chance of having to do multiple buffs and nerfs to a single ship over the course of a number of patches.

As for the classes overall, they are extremely well balanced.  The class interplay is great, CV's as a whole mesh really well with the rest of the game, and add some really great extra dimensions to the play that weren't there pre-rework.  The game is so much more interesting and engaging post rework.  I had my doubts about the AA rework of 0.8.7, but I really feel they've nailed that as well.  In my surface ships, I feel my AA is effective, and that I get some nice input that gives an appreciable result with the new sector system.  In my CV's, I feel AA is very dangerous and threatening so that I have to pick my targets and ingress and egress directions very carefully, but I can still get attacks off successfully and consistently if I make good decisions and execute them well.

As of the last few patches, the game is the best it has ever been.

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30 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

I honestly don't get the OP's opinion.  The game has some individual ship balance problems, but so does basically every game ever made - it's very difficult to balance a huge number of individual units in a highly complex game, and there will inevitably be levels of imbalance.  The criticism I'd give WG here is that they tend to be a bit slow to rebalance ships that seem clearly unbalanced, but I also understand the reasoning behind that - they would rather be slow to make a change and give themselves the data to get it more correct than they otherwise would, and minimise the chance of having to do multiple buffs and nerfs to a single ship over the course of a number of patches.

As for the classes overall, they are extremely well balanced.  The class interplay is great, CV's as a whole mesh really well with the rest of the game, and add some really great extra dimensions to the play that weren't there pre-rework.  The game is so much more interesting and engaging post rework.  I had my doubts about the AA rework of 0.8.7, but I really feel they've nailed that as well.  In my surface ships, I feel my AA is effective, and that I get some nice input that gives an appreciable result with the new sector system.  In my CV's, I feel AA is very dangerous and threatening so that I have to pick my targets and ingress and egress directions very carefully, but I can still get attacks off successfully and consistently if I make good decisions and execute them well.

As of the last few patches, the game is the best it has ever been.

Some of the Mechanics are rushed and the Carrier buffs are NOT being probably getting delayed as of now, we only get a minor nerfs for carriers. the Anti Air is also a bit of a issue since because of the Mid range AA gun flaks were wiped as well.

 

Like i said, they have advantages but still have Major Flaws.

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