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Earl_of_Arland

HMS Renown as Premium Tier VII British Battleship

HMS Renown as Tier VII Premium?  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you agree for Wargaming to develop HMS Renown as Tier VII premium?

    • Yes
      3
    • No
      5
    • Maybe?
      9

34 comments in this topic

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HMS Renown (1944)

The only battlecruiser of the Royal Navy to remain afloat by the end of the war, Renown was somewhat unique. Her relatively weak armor and despite her size carried only six 381 mm main armament may seem underwhelming compared to other capital ship, she was very fast at 31 knots and carries decent anti-aircraft armament of 72 Oerlikon 20 mm guns. I potentially see Renown as a long-range sharpshooter with accurate but fast firing guns to compensate the low number or support ship with her blazing AA and speed to keep up with the cruisers. But her low-sitting thin belt discourage mid-range brawling like how Hood is played currently.

Feel free to discuss :D

Edited by Earl_of_Arland

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I don't think the ship can go higher than Tier 6... Tier 7 BBs are all better (In one way or another).

Lyon has more guns (wayyyyyyyyy more guns), rather tanky and good speed.
Gneisenau has superb protection, good AA, torpedoes and good secondary. Scharn is mostly the same.
Colorado and Nagato: more guns that are bigger. Also better protected.
The incoming Californina has more guns and better protected.
KGV and DoY: better protection, more guns and better RoF.

Basically all T7 BBs are better protected than this ship.

Edited by Paladinum
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I'd rather say to have her at T6, not 7. Only 6 381mm guns at would be somewhat underpowered without additional gimmicks. Her closest counterpart that exists is Gneisenau but the latter has decent secondary range, and some torps to compensate the little amount of guns.

Not that I disagree with your suggestion entirely. But Paladinum is right. Most T7 BBs that currently exist have at least 406mm guns with only few exceptions. And the exceptions have to sacrifice one thing to gain an advantage (which is mostly ship's top speed).

Edited by Sir_Feather
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5 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

Only 6 381mm guns at would be somewhat underpowered without additional gimmicks. Her closest counterpart that exists is Gneisenau but the latter has decent secondary range, and some torps to compensate the little amount of guns.

How about giving her faster firing guns (25s?) and higher sigma to compensate that? I do agree that Gnei has better secondaries and armor, but i think her speed and the aforementioned gimmicks makes Renown able to dictate the engagement who to engage, since that's what Battlecruisers are for (kill cruiser, helped in battle line)?

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Just now, Earl_of_Arland said:

How about giving her faster firing guns (25s?) and higher sigma to compensate that? I do agree that Gnei has better secondaries and armor, but i think her speed and the aforementioned gimmicks makes Renown able to dictate the engagement who to engage, since that's what Battlecruisers are for (kill cruiser, helped in battle line)?

Faster gun reload and higher sigma might help. And probably give her the accurate maneuverability stats would not hurt either (32 knots top speed would still make sense).

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I'm speaking from a no-nonsense perspective (aka no gimmick). If gimmicked sure the ship can be T7.

Geez, more gimmicks...

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More like Armory or FXP

 

Fact: Repulse and Renown has an Upgrade plan for 1943 and final conversion at 1944, Which mostly changes in AA And Secondary guns.

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T6

Hood already takes T7. And you will have to worry T9 MM (Murder Meyhem).

Repulse can be Premium.
Renown can be Tech Tree.

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6 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

T6

Hood already takes T7. And you will have to worry T9 MM (Murder Meyhem).

Repulse can be Premium.
Renown can be Tech Tree.

Cane we have that the other way around? make Repulse as Tech tree

 

Spoiler

Image result for レパルス アニメ

 

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18 minutes ago, BIGCOREMKP0I said:

Cane we have that the other way around? make Repulse as Tech tree

 

  Hide contents

Image result for レパルス アニメ

 

If WG will give HMS Repulse her 1943 modernization (Queen Ann's Mansion, 20 to 24 113 mm [4.5 in] guns, Float Plane), no problem. She will atleast have enough fly swatter vs T8 CV.
The question is, will WG give it to us?

 

Also, HMS Hood would have also gotten the same modernization if she was not sunk by the Bismarck.
And she had 3 unbuilt sisters due to Washington Treaty. It can be safe to say they can take the T7 tech tree slot.

Edited by S0und_Theif

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In this game, if there are 2 sister ships, the one with more "modernization"/"refit" (this is somewhat inaccurate because tech tree ships are supposed to represent the whole class - all ships in the class) is more likely to be the tech tree ship. Not a certainty, of course.

 

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If the 381mm is the same gun characteristics as QE, in term of penetration;

She would have difficulties dealing AP damage to Bismarck.

Her deck armor is strong enough to shatter QE's AP.

Even T6 with 6 guns will prove difficult to her IMHO.

T5 is probably the best spot. Can be advertised as Highest caliber at T5. Even with 30s reload.

Her main problem will probably sniper Kongo. But not something larger than that.

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6 hours ago, Brunswickz said:

Her main problem will probably sniper Kongo. But not something larger than that.

She will be compared to Kongo, there's little doubt. T5 would be the most comfortable for Repulse. Refitted Renown can be a T6 tech tree with some minor buffs.

Edited by Paladinum
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4 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

She will be compared to Kongo, there's little doubt. T5 would be the most comfortable for Repulse. Refitted Renown can be a T6 tech tree with some buffs.

With superior range, Kongo can burn down Renown without chance to counter attack.

I used that to defeat Warspite, many times.

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17 hours ago, Paladinum said:

If gimmicked sure the ship can be T7.

Geez, more gimmicks...

Come on, list me ships that doesn't have gimmicks... 

On the bright side, at least Renown wasn't a paper ship.

To simplify the opinions here, Renown being implemented is acceptable as long it was T6 considering her weak armour and low number of guns.

Now that i think more, i do agree with that statement. And also, More T6 Prems = rEpOpUlAtE tHe MiD tIeRs so win for us, win for WG

Now, how about  HMS Tiger or Repulse 1930 as T5 premium?

Edited by Earl_of_Arland

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6 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Come on, list me ships that doesn't have gimmicks... 

On the bright side, at least Renown wasn't a paper ship.

To simplify the opinions here, Renown being implemented is acceptable as long it was T6 considering her weak armour and low number of guns.

Now that i think more, i do agree with that statement. And also, More T6 Prems = rEpOpUlAtE tHe MiD tIeRs so win for us, win for WG

Now, how about  HMS Tiger or Repulse 1930 as T5 premium?

HMS Tiger can be used as T5 for a potential British Battlecruisers branch. I agree with use Repulse as a premium (Renown recieved extensive refits historically and it would be better to make her the tech-tree ship at T6).

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7 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Now, how about  HMS Tiger or Repulse 1930 as T5 premium?

I put Tiger at T5 tech tree for RN "battlecruiser" line.

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Just to make sure, the retrofitted Renown you people mentioned also regarding her main gun right?

In short, she would have the same gun as Vanguard. Smaller Vanguard at is T6 probably fine. With the stealth and stuff.

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Battlecruiser Branch
Note: T9 and T10 are fiction.
 

T5 Tiger

Armament:
8 - 343 mm (13.5 in)/45 guns (4 x 2)
12 -  152 mm (6 in)/45 guns (12 x 1)
2 - 76mm (3 in)/45 AA guns (2 x 1) More AA needed please

Note: Kongou's design inspired her. She was suppose to look like Princess Royal or Queen Mary, but when the British designed Kongou and found her design more uperior, they altered Tiger to look like Kongou.
Note: Due to kongou's design insperation, she plays like Kongou. Same tier.
Note: German Battlecruiser Derfflinger shares this design, playstyle and tier. (See German Tech Tree Suggestion)


T6 Renown (1939)

Armament:
6 - 381 mm (15 in)/42 guns (3 x 2)
20 - 113 mm (4.5 in)/45 DP guns (10 x 2)
32 - 40 mm 2-pdr AA guns (4 x 1)
?? - 20 mm

Note: Renown will represent her 1939 upgrade like QE at T6.
Note: The major difference between her counter part, the German Mackensen Class, is that Renown carries 6 - 381 mm (15 in)/42 guns, while Mackensen carries 8 - 350 mm (13.8 in)/45 guns at T6.


T7 Anson or Howe (Hood Class 1940)

Armament
8 - 381 mm (15 in)/42 guns guns (4 x 2)
20 - 113 mm (4.5 in)/45 DP guns (10 x 2) or 20 - 133 mm (5.25 in)/50 DP guns (10 x 2)
32 - 40 mm 2-pdr AA guns (4 x 1)
?? - 20 mm (0.79 in) Oerlkon guns

Note: Anson or Howe will represent Hood's 1940 upgrade if Hood did not sank with her battle with Bismarck. The Queen Ann's Mansion superstructure. QE's secondaries of 113 mm (4 in) or KGV's secondaries of 133 mm (5.25 in). As well as thicker armor.
Note: Implemented, Anson or Howe not only compliment/counter German battlecruiser Ersatz Yorck at T7 (See German Tech Tree Suggestion), but also compliment/counter US battlecruisers Constellation AND Constitution (Both Lexington class battlecruisers) at T7 (See US Tech Tree Suggestion). Planned and designed at almost the same year (Late 1918 to early 1920).

Historical Note: If Hood got her 1940 upgrade before battleing Bismarck, she "might" have survived her duel with Bismarck. British Admiralty knows Hood's weakness is her thin armor.


T8 Beatty or Jollice (Vanguard Class)

Armament:
8 - 381 mm (15 in)/42 guns (4 x 2) possible to upgrade to 381 mm (15 in)/45 guns
18 or 20 - 133 mm (5.25 in)/50 DP guns (8 x 2 or10 x 2)
32 - 40 mm 2-pdr AA guns (4 x 1)
?? - 40 mm (1.6 in) Bofors guns
?? - 20 mm (0.79 in) Oerlkon guns

Note: She is vanguard in many aspects, but with gun upgradeable to make her competitive during high tier battles.
Note: Possible to upgrade her guns from 381 mm (15 in)/42 guns to 381 mm (15 in)/ 45 guns found in the Monarch for better penetration.


T9 King Edward VII

Armament: Design 1
8 - 381 mm (15 in)/45 guns (4 x 2) possible to upgrade to 406 mm (16 in)/45 or 419 mm (16.5 in)/45
18 or 20 - 133 mm (5.25 in)/50 DP guns (8 x 2 or 10 x 2)
32 - 40 mm 2-pdr AA guns (4 x 1)
?? - 40 mm (1.6 in) Bofors guns
?? - 20 mm (0.79 in) Oerlkon guns

Note: In this design, she is like the German O Class (Double), 2 guns per turret, 4 turrets.
Note: T9 and T10 British battlecruiser sacrifice armor to attain speeds of 30 to 32 knots.

Armament: Design 2
9 - 381 mm (15 in)/45 guns (3 x 3) possible to upgrade to 406 mm (16 in)/45  or 419 mm (16.5 in)/45
18 or 20 - 133 mm (5.25 in)/50 DP guns (8 x 2 or 10 x 2)
32 - 40 mm 2-pdr AA guns (4 x 1)
?? - 40 mm (1.6 in) Bofors guns
?? - 20 mm (0.79 in) Oerlkon guns

Note: In this design, her gun arrangement is more like of Lion class while still acheiving 30 to 32 knot speed.
Note: Germany sacrificed guns for armor. British sacrificed armor for guns.
Note: T9 and T10 British battlecruiser sacrifice armor to attain speeds of 30 to 32 knots.


T10 Thunderer (Name already taken. Currently no Name.)

Armament:
12 - 381 mm (15 in)/45 guns (4 x 2) possible to upgrade to 406 mm (16 in)/45 or 419 mm (16.5 in)/45
18 or 20 - 133 mm (5.25 in)/50 DP guns (8 x 2 or10 x 2)
32 - 40 mm 2-pdr AA guns (4 x 1)
?? - 40 mm (1.6 in) Bofors guns
?? - 20 mm (0.79 in) Oerlkon guns

Note: In this design, she is like the German O Class (Triple), 3 guns per turret, 4 turrets.
Note: Germany sacrificed guns for armor. British sacrificed armor for guns.
Note: T9 and T10 British battlecruiser sacrifice armor to attain speeds of 30 to 32 knots.

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35 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

T7 Anson or Howe (Hood Class 1940)

The official name is Admiral-class. The other chosen names are Rodney, Anson and Howe, which were all used for other classes of BBs.

 

35 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

T8 Beatty or Jollice (Vanguard Class)

*Jellicoe

 

35 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

T10 Thunderer (Name already taken. Currently no Name.)

As Conqueror and Thunderer took the 2 official names of Lion-class 1939, the only name left is Temeraire.

 

IMO the fundamental issue with your picks is they are not align with the RN's ideas of "battlecruiser" (less armored version of contemporary battleships, while not downgunning). And Vanguard is definitely not a battlecruiser design.

Edited by Paladinum
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18 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

The official name is Admiral-class. The other chosen names are Rodney, Anson and Howe, which were all used for other classes of BBs.

You are right, they are called the "Admiral" class. Hood, Rodney, Anson, and Howe. But since 3 of them were never built, Rodney became a Nelson class and both Anson and Howe became the KGV class.
For now I will leave the naming to WG.
At that time, I was only thinking that KGV will be the tech tree and both Prince of Wales and Duke of York will be premium. The other 2 can be reused as Admiral class.
Unless WG release a 12 gun version of KGV. Where turret B have 4 guns.

32 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

As Conqueror and Thunderer took the 2 official names of Lion-class 1939, the only name left is Temeraire.

I would like to save Temeraire as a 457 mm version of the Lion. 6 guns. (The British Georgia):Smile_hiding:

33 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

IMO the fundamental issue with your picks is they are not align with the RN's ideas of "battlecruiser" (less armored version of contemporary battleships, while not downgunning). And Vanguard is definitely not a battlecruiser design.

Guilty. Especially on T8. To be honest, I don't have any design for T8 to fill. So I used the Vanguard design as a patch solution.
For T9 and T10, could do a Lion and Conqueror copy pasta, but the armor is thinned out to attain speed. (Thinking of considering that idea.)

RN CB Philosophy = less armor without down gunning
KM CB Philosophy = less guns without sacrificing armor
Main goal is speed

Correct me if I am wrong 🙂

 

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7 minutes ago, LawrenceXVIII said:

You guys talk about Renown, wheres the Repulse ?

It started with Renown and then we dragged her sister Repulse.
We still have not dragged their 3rd sister Resistance, and their cousins, the Revenge class.

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3 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

RN CB Philosophy = less armor without down gunning
KM CB Philosophy = less guns without sacrificing armor
Main goal is speed

This is true. If you compare the RN and KM battlecruisers and their battleship "counterparts" (usually the designs immediately of the previous year), like Nassau - Von Der Tann or Bayern - Mackensen/Ersatz Yorck. IDK if Hood is like the battlecruiser counterpart of Queen E-class. 

Well some classes of RN battlecruisers actually got downgunned, but in general they focused on speed and firepower, while KM battlecruisers are generally more well-rounded. When compare to their BB counterparts, that is. KM battlecruisers aren't as fast as RN ones though.

Renown-class is basically Queen E-class but very lightly armored (6-inch belt as designed), very fast but with 1 less turret.

 

For T8, 9 and 10, there are a number of pre-Nelson designs that WG can "modernize", much like the now-Thunderer is basically Design L2. I'm not exactly confident with my tiering because those have rather light tonnage, a bit too light for my liking. In this game, more tonnage = more HP.
Design J3: 3x3 381 (AB-X). This can be T8 or T7 if WG want Hood to be unique.
Design K3: 3x3 457 (AB-X). Can easily be T10 but as stated above, the design may be too light.
T9 can be K2 with 4x2 457 (AB-XY), the only difference from K3 is the main armament layout. There is no 406 design which makes me uncomfortable somewhat.
The rest of the "known" designs have turret layout either all-gun forward or similar to G3/N3 which I really dislike.

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31 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

It started with Renown and then we dragged her sister Repulse.
We still have not dragged their 3rd sister Resistance, and their cousins, the Revenge class.

Not just those, theres a Courageous Class Battlecruiser too.

They need more than just UK ships. Dont forget Admiral Class Battlecruiser ( Hood's other Battlecruiser too ) .

 

Edit :

Oh oh did i mention we forgot Prince of Wales?

Edited by LawrenceXVIII
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