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24 minutes ago, Burnt_Out_Koalas said:

Carriers can send 100 planes at you and still continue to attack you, it is the ONLY ship in the game that can survive the whole game and play shit all game and still play. You don't even need to make a mistake in the other ships, if the CV just keeps you spotted and throws 45 Planes that you shoot down you will not last 10 minutes.

 

It is the only ship that Potato's can play every day and have a 20 minute game every game at Tier 10 and have a winrate of around 35%.  This is why there are haters about CV players and why so many people have quit the game.

If the surface ships can't even survive in 10 minutes, how can it be a full 20 minute game? A full 20 minute requires a stalemate between two teams in any modes other than 3-point domination & epicenter.

And if there are indeed so many people have quit the game, how can there be so many players with their new premiums as they follow the hype? There were many players who threaten to quit if RB made it into the live server, and yet there are not few who sail in Ohio & Colbert now.

And as usual, let's see the amount of salt once subs for PvP make it into the game.

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6 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

And as usual, let's see the amount of salt once subs for PvP make it into the game.

Aaaaaand still not quitting but keep playing so the griefing goes on

LOL

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23 minutes ago, MadhatterPH said:

just to ask.. what does SB mean when they talk about US CV?

 i assume they were saying "SBD", its the name of the DBs  on USN 

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9 hours ago, Burnt_Out_Koalas said:

Carriers can send 100 planes at you and still continue to attack you, it is the ONLY ship in the game that can survive the whole game and play shit all game and still play. You don't even need to make a mistake in the other ships, if the CV just keeps you spotted and throws 45 Planes that you shoot down you will not last 10 minutes.

So much exaggeration.

Again proving my point that most CV haters have no idea what they are talking about because they don't play CVs.

9 hours ago, Burnt_Out_Koalas said:

It is the only ship that Potato's can play every day and have a 20 minute game every game at Tier 10 and have a winrate of around 35%.  This is why there are haters about CV players and why so many people have quit the game.

If 35% winrate potatoes can have 20 minute games, then that means CVs have little influence on the match,  because a 20 minute game implies a stalemate or a close match. And a close match means a 35% winrate CV player isn't having much of an impact on the game, and by extension neither is the opposing CV.

Which flies in the face of what other CV haters insist - that CVs have too much influence and the match is decided purely by which side has the better CV.

So which is it?

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3 hours ago, Ryuuoh_DeltaPlus said:

This thread just sums up most of the whiny anti-CV players. Ignorant with bloated egos.

if you think this thread is bad...

 

 

Edited by drakon233
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8 hours ago, drakon233 said:

if you think this thread is bad...

 

 

And I thought that kind of ignorance and egotism only exists in NA forums.

Edited by Ryuuoh_DeltaPlus
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23 時間前、Ryuuoh_DeltaPlus の発言:

And I thought that kind of ignorance and egotism only exists in NA forums.

They think like NA players so......

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On 11/8/2019 at 10:30 PM, Thyaliad said:

If 35% winrate potatoes can have 20 minute games, then that means CVs have little influence on the match,  because a 20 minute game implies a stalemate or a close match. And a close match means a 35% winrate CV player isn't having much of an impact on the game, and by extension neither is the opposing CV.

Which flies in the face of what other CV haters insist - that CVs have too much influence and the match is decided purely by which side has the better CV.

So which is it?

If you cannot see how both these statements can be true then logic is truly beyond you.

I personally have no real issue with CV as a class at all, just something else to take into account.

The issue for me which makes the game really one sided is when there is a reasonable discrepancy between each sides CV.

The influence a good CV player can exert on the game is large, due to the time that player can stay alive, the area of the map that player can cover quickly. This amplifies that players good decision making.

A less skilled CV driver makes poor decisions - won't give support to his team, wants to farm damage at the back of the map, wont move his CV to have more time in the important areas of the map or gets caught out and sunk early in the game. And the class of ship merely amplifies the bad decisions. 

Given that there are 1 or 2 cvs on a side in the higher tiers, CV player quality makes a big difference.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Puggsley said:

If you cannot see how both these statements can be true then logic is truly beyond you.

I personally have no real issue with CV as a class at all, just something else to take into account.

The issue for me which makes the game really one sided is when there is a reasonable discrepancy between each sides CV.

The influence a good CV player can exert on the game is large, due to the time that player can stay alive, the area of the map that player can cover quickly. This amplifies that players good decision making.

A less skilled CV driver makes poor decisions - won't give support to his team, wants to farm damage at the back of the map, wont move his CV to have more time in the important areas of the map or gets caught out and sunk early in the game. And the class of ship merely amplifies the bad decisions. 

Given that there are 1 or 2 cvs on a side in the higher tiers, CV player quality makes a big difference.

 

 

I don't see an incentive to move around much in CV , especially in tier 8 , 10. The spotting distance for CV is huge, sometimes more than a BB and you don't want to spend 4 points for a measly 10% camo improvement when your plane need every help they can get.
Map placement also discourage moving up your CV. The other CV can spot CV for BB to shoot , remember that most BB can shoot upto 25km no problem. This leave CV most of the time to sit far far behind the frontline. Only on maps with a lot of island is  there any chance of moving up and not get shot to pieces.

Even if you are parking behind an island , this server love to set up crossfires. If you happen  to move to the wrong flank that collapse , it's game over. Not moving much in the beginning is actually the safe choice.

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3 hours ago, Puggsley said:

The influence a good CV player can exert on the game is large, due to the time that player can stay alive, the area of the map that player can cover quickly. This amplifies that players good decision making.

Well as we've shown statistically CV's are mid-range for impact on the battle of the best players of the class.

Having said that, I think it's much easier to notice for other players when CV's are being very effective, since their actions are very visible to all.  Players of the other classes who are doing just as much carrying as an excellent CV captain can be much less obvious to others.

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6 hours ago, Puggsley said:

.... ...

The influence a good CV player can exert on the game is large, due to the time that player can stay alive, the area of the map that player can cover quickly. This amplifies that players good decision making.

... ..

 

 

and this is compounded by both enemy and friendly surface ships AA, and rather lack of any in the low to mid tier .. especially T3 to T7 games its so common to see 3 CV game with a fleet of BB that's so slow and so short of AA that all they can do is watch the bomb drops .. yeah that CV is sort of OK balanced for now in current game meta in high tier games but that does not take away the fact that for most part its grossly in-balanced at mid to low tiers, specifically after the fact that  game allow multiple CV games too, that really should be taken care of, if WG are finding with all the good AA and strong self defense , even top tier surface fleet can only stand 1 CV a side, then I do not see the logic that low to mid tier surface ships with even bare a bit of AA can stand 2 or 3 CV a side

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shot-19_11_11_19_00.53-0835.thumb.jpg.99bda57f12ed34e20f94194ed7db57fb.jpgshot-19_11_11_19_01_01-0437.thumb.jpg.6d1751b1579118dbf53377dbbd960790.jpg

20191111_184050_PBSC110-Minotaur_50_Gold_harbor.wowsreplay

The enemy Enterprise almost carried his team to win until my team got some grip to push back, and won by a slight margin. I mean, I thought Enterprise is so P2W ship that never loses a battle.

If anything, CV should be buffed or reverted back to RTS because they can't even carry the team unless it's a steamrolling game.

Edited by Sir_Feather
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1 hour ago, Sir_Feather said:

The enemy Enterprise almost carried his team to win until my team got some grip to push back, and won by a slight margin. I mean, I thought Enterprise is so P2W ship that never loses a battle.

If anything, CV should be buffed or reverted back to RTS because they can't even carry the team unless it's a steamrolling game.

While I might be on your side for reversion or buffing, others will say otherwise because they don't want unicum players cv carrying all the way to a win. As if they don't carry in other ship classes already... In the end, the useless "magic spreadsheet speaks".

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15 hours ago, Puggsley said:

The issue for me which makes the game really one sided is when there is a reasonable discrepancy between each sides CV.

The influence a good CV player can exert on the game is large, due to the time that player can stay alive, the area of the map that player can cover quickly. This amplifies that players good decision making. 

But is it really? Especially since CVs don't actually fight each other directly, I would say the match is decided by which team knows how to better operate in a CV match.

As someone who plays all classes, I can say from experience that when I play CVs, I seldom go "oh hey this enemy CV player is good and is giving me a run for my money". More often I would go "oh hey this enemy team is pretty good and not showing any openings." Because if the enemy CV is bad, that doesn't mean anything to me. It just means I don't have to babysit stragglers or the overextended allies as much and perhaps I wouldn't have to worry about the enemy CV interfering with my plans.

And while CVs do have a lot of global influence, their local influence isn't as much as a surface ship. What I mean is if your team is fighting on a flank and it is 4 enemy surface ships vs 3 friendly surface ships + you as the CV, your side is actually at the disadvantage. Because the enemy team can share their AA and basically render you useless, plus your dps is nowhere near as high as a surface ship, so it is 4v3. I find CVs actually have very little ability to actually turn around a losing game.

When playing surface ships I do notice good enemy CVs for obvious reasons, but I almost never encountered an enemy CV that was so good until I was made utterly debilitated. As a matter of fact, today I did find a pretty good enemy CV (he killed me with a blind rocket strike into my smoke despite me already smoking up and concealed when his planes approached), but he was the first in a very long while. 

Spoiler

shot-19_11.12_04_09.13-0039.thumb.jpg.4ca09758b2f3d25e8049861b47f60fd9.jpg

Thing is though, he still lost the match, despite being top tier and carrying his team. Because the rest of my team played better than his. While he routed my flank, he could not do the same to my team's other flanks.

And while our team's CV was no slouch either, he did lose out on kills, scoreboard position and base xp (disregarding the winner's 50% bonus), meaning he had a smaller influence on my team relative to the enemy CV on his team. In other words, the enemy CV played better than our CV, but still lost.

Sure, skill discrepancy exists between each sides' CV, but it is no greater than that of other ships. Hell, skill discrepancy isn't necessarily a bad thing, because if a good player cannot outperform a bad player, then that means the ship is badly designed.

8 hours ago, Sir_Feather said:

The enemy Enterprise almost carried his team to win until my team got some grip to push back, and won by a slight margin. I mean, I thought Enterprise is so P2W ship that never loses a battle.

It is as though match outcomes are determined by a lot of of things, not just who has the better CV player...

But nah according to the CV haters I am talking nonsense and CV matches are clearly determined purely by which team has the better CV, so what do I know...

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12 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

I find CVs actually have very little ability to actually turn around a losing game.

This is an interesting comment.  You're not wrong, it is definitely tough to turn around a losing game in a CV.  You are more of a pressure class, not hitting decisive blows like a BB or DD, but keeping pressure out on the enemy in the right places to slowly turn the battle in your favour.  As you suggest though, that makes it pretty tough to really turn a game that is going against you.

I prefer higher alpha CV's for that reason.  Haku is a clear example, it's the best T10 CV precisely because of that heavy alpha ability it has.  I also really like Saipan, since it has superb torp alpha, and you can really cripple ships quickly in it.

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6 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

This is an interesting comment.  You're not wrong, it is definitely tough to turn around a losing game in a CV.  You are more of a pressure class, not hitting decisive blows like a BB or DD, but keeping pressure out on the enemy in the right places to slowly turn the battle in your favour.  As you suggest though, that makes it pretty tough to really turn a game that is going against you.

I prefer higher alpha CV's for that reason.  Haku is a clear example, it's the best T10 CV precisely because of that heavy alpha ability it has.  I also really like Saipan, since it has superb torp alpha, and you can really cripple ships quickly in it.

How's Saipan plane management though. I find that particular CV very very prone to getting snuffed by FT. 

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1 hour ago, legionary2099 said:

How's Saipan plane management though. I find that particular CV very very prone to getting snuffed by FT. 

Well plane management is what Saipan is all about, more so than other CV's.  You make one mistake and your alpha potential can be ruined for the rest of the battle.  So long as you're smart about plane use though, you can keep using your TB's for the majority of the battle and really get some good alpha out.  I definitely think it's the best T8 CV overall, but there's no doubt it is comparatively difficult to play.

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30 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

Well plane management is what Saipan is all about, more so than other CV's.  You make one mistake and your alpha potential can be ruined for the rest of the battle.  So long as you're smart about plane use though, you can keep using your TB's for the majority of the battle and really get some good alpha out.  I definitely think it's the best T8 CV overall, but there's no doubt it is comparatively difficult to play.

I contest that the Enterprise is arguably better than Saipan because it can absorb mistakes better and it's beefy rocket squad is not that bad anyway lul.

That said , the slower US planes are really taking their toll on US CV effectiveness. Now , they are effectively slower , have less health and same squad size as UK CV after nerf.

 

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Wow. CVs nerfed economically now. Looks like wg wants to discourage cv play. Make it a pain to play. Nerf planes. Buff AA. Now nerf economics.

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42 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Wow. CVs nerfed economically now. Looks like wg wants to discourage cv play. Make it a pain to play. Nerf planes. Buff AA. Now nerf economics.

Technically yes because planes are easier to kill after the never-ending nerfs. More dead planes = more expensive service cost.

And yet many haters wonder why the CV players flood up the low tier, especially with Hosho which lead up to 3 CVs per team.

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4 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

You are more of a pressure class, not hitting decisive blows like a BB or DD, but keeping pressure out on the enemy in the right places to slowly turn the battle in your favour.

Well said. 

This was what I was thinking of, but I was struggling to put it into words. :Smile_medal:

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2 hours ago, Sir_Feather said:

Technically yes because planes are easier to kill after the never-ending nerfs. More dead planes = more expensive service cost.

And yet many haters wonder why the CV players flood up the low tier, especially with Hosho which lead up to 3 CVs per team.

I can understand that, but that further drive the divide between surface ship player and CV player ... at those low to mid tier CV had little mean to support the surface fleet so they do their best to deal damage and since all the mid to low tier ships had practically marginal if any, AA, they see multiple CV as just plain system abusing them the surface ship players and of course the blame will fall onto CV and CV player. With all their strong AA so and so at top and high tier games the limit is 1 CV per game and we have ships at low to mid tier that had really  no AA , and the game think its OK to MM with 3 CV per side ( and in many cases not even a full 12 roster ) surface players just see a system and CV player abusing them as targets and we cannot deny that its the case

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