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Rina_Pon

Thoughts on KOTS

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I watched the EU vs. US matches.

As you'd expect from that kind of level, the games are very tightly wound up. Everyone gets into position as close as possible and more-or-less waits, then a whole bunch of moves happen very suddenly. It's all about crossfires, really. Very little long distance sniping.

Some observations:

Outside of DesMoines, Moskva, and Shima, no team brings any of the older ships. The German line could be nonexistent entirely, and there are no Zao, or Gearing. Lineups are overwhelmingly Russian:  Kremlin, Moskva, Stalingrad, Smolensk. Russian BBs for armor, pen, and traverse, Russian "cruisers" for all that and 12km radar, Smolensk for smoke and DPM,  torp-machines like Somers or Shima for DD. Somers seemed to be preferred, probably for the better guns and more useful smoke.

So my first thought is that moment you set up the game so that there are no CV allowed, the game balance becomes broken. Obviously, ships that give up performance for better AA are less useful compared to ships that give up AA performance for other combat traits. Typically, no CV environments favor Russian ships.

But my second thought is that even considering that Kremlin, and to a lesser extent Stalingrad and Moskva, break the game. You have ships with massive bow armor, the consequence of that is the only ships counter bringing to the game are the HE pen specialist IFHE Henri, concealment firedemons like Smolensk, torp delivery platforms like Somers, and of course the "Ill pen anything" aforementioned Kremlin.

It was kinda sad to see how badly the couple of Yamatos who came did. Forces into this static, cover-based island hugging gameplay, the poor turret traverse meant they simply couldn't react in time to get a shot off.

While there was a certain degree of diversity in the line ups and tactics, it really only boiled down to do you take 0,1,2 or 3 DDs, and what "diversity hire" ship you bring along to shake things up. Minotaur or seemed to be an good option. Republique and Daring not so much.

So I'm gonna say this, and believe me I've given it some thought:

The game needs CVs.

 

 

 

Edited by Rina_Pon
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And Team Asia decided to make a joke lineup. Not surprisingly did not win as there is no versatility. 

Basically KoTS showed the inherent problems with ship balance. I am not surprised with the ship choices. The clearly defining traits were bow tanking, RoF, huge radar, torpedo spam. Guess what the ships that weren't preferred did not have...

Yamato suffers from poor armour and the misadvertised powercrept 460mm guns.

KoTS demonstrates that good teamwork push beats sniping. Asia seemed to love their Darings. 

If more dynamic play is needed, play every game on Ocean.

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The God of Spreadsheet says it iz balans, tovarish 

:Smile-angry:

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1 minute ago, Paladinum said:

The God of Spreadsheet says it iz balans, tovarish 

:Smile-angry:

That god is now in the process of being terminated and being replaced for incompetence. 

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57 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

The game needs CVs.

 

Lol, Flambass once said in stream. last KoTS they trialed matches with CV

Everyone hate it

no one pick DD, and it devolve into Sniping fest Blob. because only 3 ship can defend against aircraft effectifly. since KoTS not organized by WeGe, and everyone hate it. so............

 

the CV they need is RTS one lel

Edited by humusz

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Well this is the result of the sane people 12 months ago saying 'This rework is not fine' and then the clueless responding 'give is a try first' and now they are whining once the change becomes irreversible. :derp:

Apparently people who lived through the WoT SP artillery problems say this is wows version of it.

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The ASIA vs CIS english broadcast only available at 720p. And, the broadcaster seems ankward ?

Although i can appreciate his effort to it.

So i did watch YONE's although i'm not 100% understand what he said.

Honestly i found ASIA vs CIS matches were more interesting, just because the other were like Russian bias war.

Edited by Brunswickz

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1 hour ago, Rina_Pon said:

I watched the EU vs. US matches.

As you'd expect from that kind of level, the games are very tightly wound up. Everyone gets into position as close as possible and more-or-less waits, then a whole bunch of moves happen very suddenly. It's all about crossfires, really. Very little long distance sniping.

Some observations:

Outside of DesMoines, Moskva, and Shima, no team brings any of the older ships. The German line could be nonexistent entirely, and there are no Zao, or Gearing. Lineups are overwhelmingly Russian:  Kremlin, Moskva, Stalingrad, Smolensk. Russian BBs for armor, pen, and traverse, Russian "cruisers" for all that and 12km radar, Smolensk for smoke and DPM,  torp-machines like Somers or Shima for DD. Somers seemed to be preferred, probably for the better guns and more useful smoke.

So my first thought is that moment you set up the game so that there are no CV allowed, the game balance becomes broken. Obviously, ships that give up performance for better AA are less useful compared to ships that give up AA performance for other combat traits. Typically, no CV environments favor Russian ships.

But my second thought is that even considering that Kremlin, and to a lesser extent Stalingrad and Moskva, break the game. You have ships with massive bow armor, the consequence of that is the only ships counter bringing to the game are the HE pen specialist IFHE Henri, concealment firedemons like Smolensk, torp delivery platforms like Somers, and of course the "Ill pen anything" aforementioned Kremlin.

It was kinda sad to see how badly the couple of Yamatos who came did. Forces into this static, cover-based island hugging gameplay, the poor turret traverse meant they simply couldn't react in time to get a shot off.

While there was a certain degree of diversity in the line ups and tactics, it really only boiled down to do you take 0,1,2 or 3 DDs, and what "diversity hire" ship you bring along to shake things up. Minotaur or seemed to be an good option. Republique and Daring not so much.

So I'm gonna say this, and believe me I've given it some thought:

The game needs CVs.

 

as someone who personally played stragized and shotcalled for KOTS and associated   scrims , no to many of the things that you said

 

i'll add more later when i have  time

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1 hour ago, Rina_Pon said:

The game needs CVs.

 

 

no, the game was more fun without CV. KotS with CV is boring. watch them play so passive and get pick in distance. without much actions.

game without cv is way more exciting since more strats are open like rushing a flank or dd charging BB or BC with torpedo. bb can now rush CA too. instead of getting pound to pieces by CV. it award more risky play that is not possible with CV.

the only boring part is the new Russian CL that has its own smoke generator and spam yamato to death. meanwhile kremlin survives longer so US use her with great effect. she's also better at brawling without sacrificing long range gunnery like german.

IMO they should implement ship banning like in Moba, where each team can ban 2 ship each. those ship will cant be use for the rest of the round. this way teams are force to use other ships, instead of use using russian BIAS SHIPS.

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47 minutes ago, humusz said:

 

Lol, Flambass once said in stream. last KoTS they trialed matches with CV

Everyone hate it

no one pick DD, and it devolve into Sniping fest Blob. because only 3 ship can defend against aircraft effectifly. since KoTS not organized by WeGe, and everyone hate it. so............

 

the CV they need is RTS one lel

And even then it was just a war between the 2 cv's for spotting privileges. 

At least the DD's can do their jobs with no CV's around, the abundance of 12km radar keeping them in check without choking them too much.

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1 minute ago, yansuki said:

IMO they should implement ship banning like in Moba, where each team can ban 2 ship each. those ship will cant be use for the rest of the round. this way teams are force to use other ships, instead of use using russian BIAS SHIPS.

Pretty sure Kleber was banned, Drakon will be able to verify this or not.

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1 minute ago, dieselhead said:

And even then it was just a war between the 2 cv's for spotting privileges. 

At least the DD's can do their jobs with no CV's around, the abundance of 12km radar keeping them in check without choking them too much.

yeah, its so fun to watch them charge helpless BB and BC too.  that one is impossible with cv around.

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1 hour ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Yamato suffers from poor armour and the misadvertised powercrept 460mm guns.

Let me rephrase it,

Yamato suffers from poor armor scheme and while 460mm guns still pack a lolpen, it lack turret traverse compared to the newer BBs thereof, power creeped.

I tried Yamato once at PTS and decided not to research her.

When Republique came, i'm saying to myself "this is it, RIP Yamato".

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1 minute ago, yansuki said:

yeah, its so fun to watch them charge helpless BB and BC too.  that one is impossible with cv around.

If that happens in competitive play your BB or BC are way way out of position or its the end of the battle with no ships left.

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On 10/23/2019 at 5:03 PM, dieselhead said:

Pretty sure Kleber was banned, Drakon will be able to verify this or not.

kleb, thunderer, ohio and colbert were banned, which is actually why one of the sea teams was running a 8 kleber comp in the cross server scrim against RU

 

RU fucked up their rules and allowed klebers in their internal matches, while asia had them banned all the way up until the finals. so instead of banning klebers during the cross servers the KOTS orgs(read. russians) decided to allow RU to go ahead with the klebs even tho asia had 0 history playing them or playing against them

 

it wasnt a meme comp, it was a protest comp

 

edit, i protested on the main KOTS server (there's a asian and international one) and the orgs had this to say

Spoiler

kelb3.thumb.png.985a3a5ccd291d1b796b27554ba85075.png

kleb.thumb.png.026bc3a38f0ea0ac07430c8203b3b743.pngkelb1.thumb.png.90731f4b505ea7683d1045ed9b0cbb34.pngkelb2.png.cb2f2629d20b10154dee8aba7fb6a407.png

"SEA and RU will sort it out"

 

ha, sort it my [content removed] ass

Profanity. Post edited.

~Beaufighter

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2 minutes ago, Brunswickz said:

Let me rephrase it,

Yamato suffers from poor armor scheme and while 460mm guns still pack a lolpen, it lack turret traverse compared to the newer BBs thereof, power creeped.

I tried Yamato once at PTS and decided not to research her.

When Republique came, i'm saying to myself "this is it, RIP Yamato".

no

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1 minute ago, drakon233 said:

kleb, thunderer, ohio and colbert were banned, which is actually why one of the sea teams was running a 8 kleber comp in the cross server scrim against RU

 

RU fucked up their rules and allowed klebers in their internal matches, while asia had them banned all the way up until the finals. so instead of banning klebers during the cross servers the KOTS orgs(read. russians) decided to allow RU to go ahead with the klebs even tho asia had 0 history playing them or playing against them

 

it wasnt a meme comp, it was a protest comp

New I read something on the KOTS discord somewhere haha

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5 minutes ago, dieselhead said:

If that happens in competitive play your BB or BC are way way out of position or its the end of the battle with no ships left.

it happened couple of times in EU Kots and EU VS NA. mostly happened when DD exploit a gap in enemy defense. or against stalingrad anchoring a cap point.

love this new KotS without CV. it has more brawling potential, than with CV.
 

Edited by yansuki

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6 minutes ago, Brunswickz said:

Let me rephrase it,

Yamato suffers from poor armor scheme and while 460mm guns still pack a lolpen, it lack turret traverse compared to the newer BBs thereof, power creeped.

I tried Yamato once at PTS and decided not to research her.

When Republique came, i'm saying to myself "this is it, RIP Yamato".

My eternal problem with it. 4884 damage. Like wtf. Not working as advertised.

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Just now, yansuki said:

it happened couple of times in EU Kots and EU VS NA. mostly happened when DD exploit a gap in enemy defense. or against stalingrad anchoring a cap point.
 

NA and EU played like it was randoms, more tham half of the games people died to stupid mispositions and stupidity, not to mention ships that actually got deleted early on.

 

watched all the kots matches, had no idea what they were thinking of

 

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Just now, dejiko_nyo said:

My eternal problem with it. 4884 damage. Like wtf. Not working as advertised.

Once WG advertised, "Play WoWs, to destroy Yamato".

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1 minute ago, yansuki said:

it happened couple of times in EU Kots and EU VS NA. mostly happened when DD exploit a gap in enemy defense. or against stalingrad anchoring a cap point.

love this new KotS without CV. it has more brawling potential, than with CV.
 

Its a risky move.

Agree with your CV comment.

1 minute ago, drakon233 said:

NA and EU played like it was randoms, more tham half of the games people died to stupid mispositions and stupidity, not to mention ships that actually got deleted early on.

 

The finals games were quite good I thought. EU was so passive though I thought they had fallen asleep at times haha.

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4 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

NA and EU played like it was randoms, more tham half of the games people died to stupid mispositions and stupidity, not to mention ships that actually got deleted early on.

 

watched all the kots matches, had no idea what they were thinking of

 

While Asia took it as serious business? 

Also, thanks for explaining the Kleber ridiculousness. I thought to myself: "WTF are these screwballs doing?!" Its a no brainer you don't play an inflexible lineup.

PS, anyway Asia won the bragging rights in the end, though not as definitively as I would have liked.

Edited by dejiko_nyo

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Just now, dieselhead said:

The finals games were quite good I thought. EU was so passive though I thought they had fallen asleep at times haha.

ja, i think that's was the reason of their lost. i love how NA bring the aggression to the table. though they have some issue with communication. like the game where 07 rush C flank with CA and BB. henri rush too fast and got deleted. they even collided with other team. it was the kremlin who save the day there.

wait, was it 07 or PWP? kinda forgot which team was that.

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