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Max_Battle

German Cruiser Ammunition Selection

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TL:DR - Is AP high tier German Cruisers' Universal Ammo type?

I think it was LWM who broke down the effect of firing Kron's AP and HE at a DD and it showed that there was so little difference that there was no point switching ammo types.

It was clearly explained and showed why AP is Kron's universal shell.

Now I for one don't mind changing shells depending on the angle/target - it's part of the game IMO and one that I enjoy BUT if it can be clearly shown that a certain ship does indeed have a vaild and solid reason to have a universal shell, then I would like to understand how and why - and follow suite if that is the smart way to go.

At this stage I'm just gonna tag @Paladinum in because, well I'm talking about German cruisers 😛

I've heard some people say that higher tier German cruisers should also use AP exclusively but I don't remember reading the same evidence as clearly as the Kron example.

I guess I am asking about Hipper (and Eugen of course) up... unless Yorck also counts in this question?

Anyway, I'm getting to the upper end of Hipper's XP bar and I like German ships so its relevant for me now.

But... my experience is that neither shell type on Eugen or Hipper are very good full stop... yes I know Germans are in a bad state at the moment... but even when I use HE on DDs and AP on the sides of BB and CA/Cl I don't get the same satisfaction as the same tier US ship doing the same thing in the same situation (yes taking imprived US AP angles into account).

But seriously... is this not a stupid question in a way?

Would you fire AP at an angled Conkek?

 

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Yeah I remember that thread you posted.

But you only seem to say "meh" which means you should switch ammo types as appropriate as per normal as per almost every ship in the game.

Like you seem to be shrugging right from the start and suggesting that your own findings are inconclusive and don't point to AP as a universal German cruiser shell.

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I only fire AP against a perfectly broadsiding target. I dealt about 21k damage against Wooster once, and about 15k to Montana, both in one full salvo from Hindenburg. However I don't think AP is the universal ammo for German cruisers. And you cannot compare them with Kron because no German cruisers have the same caliber (the closest is Scharnhorst/Graf Spee's 283mm).

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Just now, Max_Battle said:

don't point to AP as a universal German cruiser shell.

Because German CAs don't have a so-called 'universal' shell type a.k.a. the type of shell that you can use in every situation :fish_book: 

The constant switching of shell types is a must if you want to play them effectively. 

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3 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Because German CAs don't have a so-called 'universal' shell type a.k.a. the type of shell that you can use in every situation :fish_book: 

The constant switching of shell types is a must if you want to play them effectively. 

Good. That was my question. I had no preconceived idea. I just seem to remember reading, or someone saying that AP should be your go to shell as a German cruiser, but it didn't make sense because as you say, switch shells to be effective.

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8 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

And you cannot compare them with Kron because no German cruisers have the same caliber (the closest is Scharnhorst/Graf Spee's 283mm).

I was not in any way comparing the guns.

I was only saying the review of the Kron shells was clear and made sense while the information I had seen on German shells was spurious.

It was the method of review and presentation I was comparing, not the gun stats.

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Just now, Max_Battle said:

Good. That was my question. I had no preconceived idea. I just seem to remember reading, or someone saying that AP should be your go to shell as a German cruiser, but it didn't make sense because as you say, switch shells to be effective.

There is no way German CAs have a 'universal' shell type because both have drawbacks that will hamper their effectiveness in different situations.

...or you can always play a few matches with your Hipper using only HE or AP to see for yourself :Smile_trollface:

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The key point is that HE deals damage on contact, however miniscule. This at least represents something. AP overpen falls into the same category. HE also has the fire DoT chance. AP doesn't. Plus AP can richochet doing exactly zero damage. The key to use AP exclusively is that you need to consistently cause damage, be it chip damage or big damage. You lose that consistency if your target angles to deflect your shells.

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Just to add a little more: instead of sightseeing and oggling eyecandy like flags and islands and skies and scenery, I keep thinking and calculating "should I switch ammo? if I switch, is it the most viable? is it wasting my time? it is worth the extra 6s changing midway though a reload? Will the enemy still be broadside when my AP is ready? Is my distance judgement correct? My lead?" And that is only half what goes on. The other half involves not being a target.

That is why RoF ships have a huge advantage over their long reload counterparts. Ammo type not working? Just switch. No need to think so much.

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I will just tell you this

Legendary Mod Quest for Hindenburg name was "Full of Fire"

let that sink in, which Ammo should you pick :Smile_glasses:

Edited by humusz

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Of course one keep switching ammo type on a cruiser ( not super cruiser ) and German too but I wager German Cruiser is handicapoed by HE not doing enough and low fire chance and yet AP is too demanding on angling ; not to mention ROF is at best just mediocre

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8 hours ago, Mechfori said:

Of course one keep switching ammo type on a cruiser ( not super cruiser ) and German too but I wager German Cruiser is handicapoed by HE not doing enough and low fire chance and yet AP is too demanding on angling ; not to mention ROF is at best just mediocre

Yep. Cool. I mean this is what I thought but I wanted to ask the forum in case I was missing something.

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14 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

TL:DR - Is AP high tier German Cruisers' Universal Ammo type?

Nope.

I remember years ago when I was a new player the playerbase kept on saying that German cruiser AP is good and that you should be using it most of the time. But my personal experience taught me that it wasn't good against anything further than medium range and not presenting the flattest of broadsides. After that I learnt to take whatever the community says with a pinch of salt and to always try things out first before coming to a conclusion.

Anyway as with other ships, switching of ammo types is the key to success.

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I'm with @Thyaliad on this one. Further out than mid-range German AP is very mediocre, mid to short range it will punish a broadside, but outside of that its best to mostly just use the HE. German ships all need some serious love, It would be great if they got the same AP angles as US cruisers, that might go some way to making them the tough brawling heavy hitters they are supposed to be.

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9 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

Nope.

I remember years ago when I was a new player the playerbase kept on saying that German cruiser AP is good and that you should be using it most of the time.

Maybe the same playerbase took the feedback from NA players who got enemy broadsides handed on a silver platter.

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The way I understand the advertisement for German AP is that for a given size, it penetrates more armour, hence "better". However, that does not take into account all the other parameters such as angling, distance, etc.

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20 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

The way I understand the advertisement for German AP is that for a given size, it penetrates more armour, hence "better". However, that does not take into account all the other parameters such as angling, distance, etc.

No it doesnt. German AP only have higher base damage than the rest. it always advertised as Best Alpha

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19 minutes ago, humusz said:

No it doesnt. German AP only have higher base damage than the rest. it always advertised as Best Alpha

Thank you. Which makes it look all the worse if you factor everything else into account.

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I use mainly HE, and AP only if opportunity shows up. That’s why expert loader is a good skill to have. Currently at Hipper.

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I've found with my Hindenburger, I have to switch. German HE has their high penetration, but relatively low damage. The AP is fairly light weight in terms of penning at long range.

So my policy is simple. Over 12km and I use HE, under 12km and I use AP.

It's worked so far.

Oh, it helps if you hang back and set everything on fire, a lot.

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This thread has been great info.

Thanks for everyone's insights, experience and comments.

Just what I wanted to know.

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