Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
PanJin21

Cossack or Haida?

17 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

18
[EE09]
Member
87 posts
665 battles

 

As WG has introduced a discount coupon for Premium ships in the Armoury, I finally found it feasible to spend money on the game and I found the Tribal-Class destroyers very attractive, but after doing some research from game stats and fellow players, this is what I determined that was the general opinion of most players by illustrating it in the meme I made.

Btw I made this meme myself like 5 minutes ago.

image.png.1b0bd74b7b450eac4cf4bf2134b9b56f.png

Edited by PanJin21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,987
[CLAY]
Beta Tester
3,290 posts
15,955 battles

I like both.

Cossack very shooty and Haida very hidey.

Edit: You can use Haida in Narai.

Edited by Max_Battle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18
[EE09]
Member
87 posts
665 battles
Just now, Max_Battle said:

I like both.

Cossack very shooty and Haida very hidey.

Btw whatcha think about this first meme I ever made?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,987
[CLAY]
Beta Tester
3,290 posts
15,955 battles
1 minute ago, PanJin21 said:

Btw whatcha think about this first meme I ever made?

It looks like you made your mind up already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,141 posts
4,770 battles

If you can read long English text, I personally recommend Miss Littlewhitemouse's Premium ship reviews series of articles available in NA Forum.

At least these articles can introduce certain premium ships and answer the generic "how is this boat?" question.

Though due to her health problems the latest review she has made is the Soviet battleship Lenin dated back in the Soviet battleships event.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18
[EE09]
Member
87 posts
665 battles
55 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

If you can read long English text, I personally recommend Miss Littlewhitemouse's Premium ship reviews series of articles available in NA Forum.

At least these articles can introduce certain premium ships and answer the generic "how is this boat?" question.

Though due to her health problems the latest review she has made is the Soviet battleship Lenin dated back in the Soviet battleships event.

Well I checked out the reviews while thinking about the purchase. I haven't spent any money on WG in months, but I sure have spent an approximate 100+ SGD on WoT and WoWS.

I hope she gets better soon. Dasha is the queen of the WoWS channel but LWM is the queen of the forums.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18
[EE09]
Member
87 posts
665 battles
46 minutes ago, Korrupt_Penguin said:

Cossack! much more enjoyable

Well yea I agree Cossack is very attractive. What I also wanted to know is how Haida matches up against Jervis.

102mm secondary or an extra quad torpedo launcher?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,090
Member
4,231 posts
8,070 battles
1 minute ago, PanJin21 said:

102mm secondary or an extra quad torpedo launcher?

Tribal class has only one set of 4 torp tubes. That applies to both Cossack and Haida.

Cossack has more main guns, Haida has more AA range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,771
[MRI]
Member
3,067 posts
14,037 battles

I don't have Haida, but from what I see it is pretty much the same as Cossack except you give up pair of main guns and torpedo range for slightly better AA at a tier lower. And you get creeping smoke like Perth or Huanghe instead of the standard RN smoke. Otherwise they are quite similar. Both have only 1 quad torpedo tubes and have extremely good concealment for their tiers.

It depends on what you want them for. Cossack can be used to train your Brit DD captains while Haida is only limited to Commonwealth ships, but Haida can be used in Narai Operation since it is a Tier 7.

However for the Cossack (and Haida) it is important to note what is your role in battle. You have only 4 torpedo tubes so that is an indication you should not be trying to farm torpedo damage. You are primarily a DD hunter. Your role to contest caps by ambushing and gunning down rival DDs, provide spotting and to screen for the fleet with your long lasting but short range hydro. Any DD you can't gun down you outspot them instead for your team to shoot at. It is only after the enemy DDs are dead and all the caps secured can you then try to farm torpedo damage. Because with 1x4 torpedo launchers you are not going to a do a whole lot much with them. Like I said I don't have Haida, but I imagine the same knowledge should apply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,237 posts
11,808 battles

Haida is the best hider.

Cossack is the best co- uh... something.

They're both very good ships and fun to play, but they're also more different from each other than the basic stats might suggest. Haida has the creeping smoke as everyone knows, but she also has a special Hydro (3.5km ship detection range) which gives her some nasty tactical options. On top of that, her shells do more damage than usual (1900 for HE). She's very, very powerful once you get the hang of her unique playstyle.

Cossack is more of a normal British destroyer, though still with some interesting differences. Speed Boost (Haida has this as well, by the way), 8 guns, and incredible concealment make her a fearsome anti-DD brawler. No enemy destroyer will be happy to see your Cossack pop up at 5km. The torpedoes, while only having 4, reload very quickly and can be single-fired. They are quite useful on Cossack (not so much on Haida).

Can't really go wrong with either of these two. Both great fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
517
[BLESS]
Member
977 posts
9,197 battles

That's really one of those "six of one, a half dozen of the other"-type questions. They are similar except for their differences, and both are effective and fun ships in the right hands.

The thing is, so is Jervis and Lightning. Buying premium camo for either of these ships would be an entirely viable alternative.

Me, I would get Haida as being unique and separate from the tech tree, as well as for having historical value. Cossack is only valuable vs. Lightning for the free captain reassignments. That is, if I didn't already have far, far too many T7 DDs already. I actually do have Cossack - bought cheap during the British DD event - but never play her. Benson, Kagero, Asashio, and even Akizuki always seem to get the nod.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is: are you sure you don't want to buy Tirpitz instead? :crab:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
170
[FISH]
Member
405 posts
31,243 battles

Cossack is one of the best dds in the game imo, carry potential probably the highest in T8.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
171
[ANZAC]
Member
503 posts
17,161 battles

Cossack is one of those DDs that is still competitive when bottom tier. I dont have Haida, so cannot comment on how good it is, but I suggest you check out how it does when in T9 games. This is the measure I use when deciding if I want to go for a premium.

Although as the Haida is T7 it does benefit from MM and is more often top tier than not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,309
[REPOI]
Member
5,834 posts
24,295 battles

haida is rather anti DD, she's very strong in her role but has a hard time dealing with larger ships since she feels very sluggish 

cossack is a good all rounder, good guns, fast reload torps and the 8 120mm guns with IFHE can bring a lot of hurts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
856
[AUSNZ]
Beta Tester
1,153 posts
10,041 battles

Well if I had to choose between the two I'd definitely pick Haida.

There are a number of reasons for this.  The main one is that Haida is the best T7 DD in the game, while Cossack has a DD at it's tier that is almost identical, but is better, in Lightning.  Lightning has 20% worse dpm than Cossack, and doesn't have engine boost, but in every other respect it's a better ship.  The 120's on Lightning are unique to the ship, with a longer barrel firing a heavier shell that has much better speed retention over distance.  As an example, at 12km Lightning's shells will arrive in 10.4s, while Cossack's will take 14.2s.  They also have nearly double the AP pen, 360° turrets, and excellent firing angles compared to Cossack's pretty crappy ones.  The only time Cossack's guns are better are when firing from a fairly broadside angle at a ship at less than 8km range.

As for Haida, she is one of the best DD's in the game, and the best at her tier.  The reason for this is her unmatched ability to operate at danger close ranges to enemy DD's and absolutely tear them to shreds without them being able to retaliate.  Her creeping smoke and 3.5km range hydro, when used correctly will enable you to avoid damage while keeping enemy ships spotted while 2.5 - 3.5km away (I did mention she operates rather close).  It's genuinely thrilling to sail her and operate like this.  I have over 100 battles in her and am server 3rd for PR, so I am reasonable at this play style and can speak with some confidence on the issue.

Much like playing French DD's, you need to know when to be aggressive, and then be so aggressive that the enemy ship is left with no options.  Many people do not expect invisible enemy DD's to turn up 3km away and kill them before they can get moving.

However, and this is a BIG however, Haida is a very difficult ship to play well.  Because of the ranges she operates at, mistakes get punished pretty much like no other ship.  An awareness lapse will see you spotted at ranges that mean instant death.  You need to know concealment stats of every DD you will come up against, hydro ships and range/duration stats, radar ships and range/duration stats, DD smoke firing ranges, and most of all you need to have exceptional situational awareness.  You need to know the concealment mechanics of ships and smoke intimately and be able to apply them to any situation instantly.  If you do not feel extremely confident in your close range DD play then I would suggest maybe giving her a miss.  If you really like RN DD's and are happy and successful with aggressive counter DD play in these ships, then Haida will take this play style and turn it up to 11.  If you are under-confident and play Haida like a regular general purpose DD, you will likely be more successful in other ships.

LWM has a good review on Haida.  She is spot on for pretty much all of it.  Make sure you take IFHE.  I'd suggest reading the cobra chicken segment of the review, this pretty much nails it!  Here's a key takeaway from her review: "I cannot stress this enough: Haida’s ideal engagement range is at distances that would be suicide to any other vessel.  What is most remarkable about her is that she not only pulls it off, she excels in this environment.  With her tiny surface detection, her access to a weird creeping Smoke Generator and an even weirder Hydroacoustic Search, she is well suited to not only closing into these ranges and engaging the enemies, but doing so without giving herself away."

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
877
[151ST]
Member
1,904 posts
8,827 battles
10 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

Well if I had to choose between the two I'd definitely pick Haida.

There are a number of reasons for this.  The main one is that Haida is the best T7 DD in the game, while Cossack has a DD at it's tier that is almost identical, but is better, in Lightning.  Lightning has 20% worse dpm than Cossack, and doesn't have engine boost, but in every other respect it's a better ship.  The 120's on Lightning are unique to the ship, with a longer barrel firing a heavier shell that has much better speed retention over distance.  As an example, at 12km Lightning's shells will arrive in 10.4s, while Cossack's will take 14.2s.  They also have nearly double the AP pen, 360° turrets, and excellent firing angles compared to Cossack's pretty crappy ones.  The only time Cossack's guns are better are when firing from a fairly broadside angle at a ship at less than 8km range.

As for Haida, she is one of the best DD's in the game, and the best at her tier.  The reason for this is her unmatched ability to operate at danger close ranges to enemy DD's and absolutely tear them to shreds without them being able to retaliate.  Her creeping smoke and 3.5km range hydro, when used correctly will enable you to avoid damage while keeping enemy ships spotted while 2.5 - 3.5km away (I did mention she operates rather close).  It's genuinely thrilling to sail her and operate like this.  I have over 100 battles in her and am server 3rd for PR, so I am reasonable at this play style and can speak with some confidence on the issue.

Much like playing French DD's, you need to know when to be aggressive, and then be so aggressive that the enemy ship is left with no options.  Many people do not expect invisible enemy DD's to turn up 3km away and kill them before they can get moving.

However, and this is a BIG however, Haida is a very difficult ship to play well.  Because of the ranges she operates at, mistakes get punished pretty much like no other ship.  An awareness lapse will see you spotted at ranges that mean instant death.  You need to know concealment stats of every DD you will come up against, hydro ships and range/duration stats, radar ships and range/duration stats, DD smoke firing ranges, and most of all you need to have exceptional situational awareness.  You need to know the concealment mechanics of ships and smoke intimately and be able to apply them to any situation instantly.  If you do not feel extremely confident in your close range DD play then I would suggest maybe giving her a miss.  If you really like RN DD's and are happy and successful with aggressive counter DD play in these ships, then Haida will take this play style and turn it up to 11.  If you are under-confident and play Haida like a regular general purpose DD, you will likely be more successful in other ships.

LWM has a good review on Haida.  She is spot on for pretty much all of it.  Make sure you take IFHE.  I'd suggest reading the cobra chicken segment of the review, this pretty much nails it!  Here's a key takeaway from her review: "I cannot stress this enough: Haida’s ideal engagement range is at distances that would be suicide to any other vessel.  What is most remarkable about her is that she not only pulls it off, she excels in this environment.  With her tiny surface detection, her access to a weird creeping Smoke Generator and an even weirder Hydroacoustic Search, she is well suited to not only closing into these ranges and engaging the enemies, but doing so without giving herself away."

Agree with this 100%

To add to this, Cossack can be out-done in a few places by other T8 DDs like Lo Yang, Lightning, Kidd, Z-23. They can all fight on fairly even ground or from better ground in certain circumstances. To compound this T8-10 sees a drastic increase in radar saturation and the differences between T8 and T10 are exponentially more than previous tier differences.

The Haida only really hurts against the Z-39 and even then either out-spots or out-guns everything in tier and many above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×