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Sir_Feather

German Supercruisers

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Yes I know WG hates the German things a lot. But I think there could be at least one supercruiser as a possible high tier freemium in the future even if she would be a fictional one.

 

My idea is to take Hindenburg's hull, upscale it, then:

- Her armor scheme should give her at least 30mm bow plating to make brawling against some T10 BBs less risky, but still can be punished by the alpha guns (>16 inch guns). And of course turtleback is a must!

- Her base HP pool should be somewhere between 74k-80k (the Germans were supposed to be tanky). But she will have the same fire duration like the other supercruisers (60s).

- Replace those 203mm guns with Scharnhorst's 283mm. The base reload time remains at 20s. The base max range would be 18km, and the dispersion should be the same like Scharnhorst's (no long-ranged BS HE spamming allowed).

- Her secondary range should be at Bismarck's level (good enough for brawling), while her AA is between Hindenburg's & GK's level (German AA is rather mediocre tbh).

- Replace those 6km torps with the stock Z-52 torps (10km).

- Her consumables set would be the same with Hindenburg's (standard heal, German hydro & defAA in separate slots, and fighter/no spotter).

- Her base top speed should be the same with the current Hindenburg's top speed (buff Hindenburg's top speed later, WG!). Her turning radius should be about 950m (she would be bigger than Hindenburg after all), and her base rudder shift time should be 15s.

- Her base concealment should be about 17km which is more or less of the BB-level concealment.

 

In short, this supercruiser would be literally a T10 Scharnhorst with one more aft turret, and a pair more quad torp launchers. The guns might be too small, but that would be one of the balancing weaknesses of the seemingly OP stats. The combination of the fast-firing guns, long-ranged secondaries, and torps that work at medium range makes her the more proper version of the brawling-type cruiser that Hindenburg was supposed to be. Both Stalingrad and Yoshino might still be better in some scenarios, but this "Super Scharnhorst/Hindenburg" would offer something German to the table, in a literal sense of course.

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Knowing WG, they would either buff the armament a lot (Azuma -> Yoshino) or add more turrets (Alaska -> Puerto Rico).

#1: Siegfried but reload to 21s.

#2: Siegfried but 4 turrets (which basically a lightly armored Bismarck). Seems questionable at best and a no-no in general.

Your torpedo suggestion doesn't seem farfetched, seeing how Yoshino has 20km torps.

 

PS. I will soon post a thread about German panzerschiff - super cruiser line soon so curb your enthusiasm.

Edited by Paladinum

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1 hour ago, Paladinum said:

Knowing WG, they would either buff the armament a lot (Azuma -> Yoshino) or add more turrets (Alaska -> Puerto Rico).

#1: Siegfried but reload to 21s.

#2: Siegfried but 4 turrets (which basically an lightly armored Bismarck)

Your torpedo suggestion doesn't seem farfetched, seeing how Yoshino has 20km torps.

 

PS. I will soon post a thread about German panzerschiff - super cruiser line soon so curb your enthusiasm.

To be honest, most of my suggestions reuse the armaments that have existed in the game. My torpedo suggestion is basically shorter but less detectable than Yoshino's, and of course none of the German torpedoes are that long-ranged to begin with.

As for Siegfried, I find her to be quite absurd because the guns are way bigger than the ones for the supercruisers. I mean Siegfried is basically a buffed T9 Gneisenau, and re-designated as a cruiser.

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32 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

As for Siegfried, I find her to be quite absurd because the guns are way bigger than the ones for the supercruisers. I mean Siegfried is basically a buffed T9 Gneisenau, and re-designated as a cruiser.

Siegfried is at best a Gneisenau alternative. Gneisenau's protection is very good (on paper), while Siegfried is still a cruiser against BB guns.

 

When WG revealed Siegfried, I experienced mixed feelings: happy because Germany finally get a T9 premium, confused because WG put an O-class in the game as a cruiser, while all other super cruisers have been with 12 inch guns.

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What news on siegfried anyway ?

I heard almost all CC found it to be Meh... 

I mean its German, in WG dictionary it must be Meh by default :Smile_trollface:

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29 minutes ago, humusz said:

What news on siegfried anyway ?

I heard almost all CC found it to be Meh... 

I mean its German, in WG dictionary it must be Meh by default :Smile_trollface:

Nothing can beat the Rusky Bias Comrade !!!!!!!!!!!

( and that is the first thing pop up when i search for it :cap_yes: )

 

xyskyFA.gif

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I wonder if they nerfed the German CAs, esp the Hindenburg, at 0.8.8.1. I usually don't get a lot of cit hits before. Now, I disappeared after one shot from a  T10 BB from a distance - like from full HP to nil!  

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15 hours ago, appoclyse said:

Nothing can beat the Rusky Bias Comrade !!!!!!!!!!!

( and that is the first thing pop up when i search for it :cap_yes: )

 

xyskyFA.gif

lol that gif.

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10 hours ago, greywolfsdb2013 said:

I wonder if they nerfed the German CAs, esp the Hindenburg, at 0.8.8.1. I usually don't get a lot of cit hits before. Now, I disappeared after one shot from a  T10 BB from a distance - like from full HP to nil!  

It is actually a normal thing because all German ships except DDs are virtually unprotected from long range salvo. And of course there are more ships with better accuracy (or just better at anything in particular) since the release of the German tech tree. So whatever WG said that German ships have "better survivability" as the national flavor is obsolete today (only GK remains true with the impenetrable bow armor/Yamato or Musashi cannot overmatch GK's bow armor).

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WG seriously need to do something about that German AP they keep praising CONSTANTLY.

The problem seems to be their low Krupp value and somewhat weak drag coef, but Krupp value is a hidden stat so I can't compare it.

Edited by Paladinum

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5 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

WG seriously need to do something about that German AP they keep praising CONSTANTLY.

The problem seems to be their low Krupp value and somewhat weak drag coef, but Krupp value is a hidden stat so I can't compare it.

Sometimes I feel Charles Martel has better AP performance than Hipper.. 

 

When there were only 3 tier 10 CA, undoubtedly Hindenburg has good survivability, comparing to DM and Zao. 

But now:

1. So many LARGE cruiser which can fire their guns from greater distance effectively 

 

2. So many BBs with pseudo Yamato guns. I still clearly remember how much hatred I had towards Yamato when I got my Hindenburg (first tier 10), always got citadeled by Yamato no matter how I angled myself, which seldom happened when facing Montana. Now it is like always eating Citadels, forcing me to play Hindenburg passively. 

Edited by Darkworld_2015

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3 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

WG seriously need to do something about that German AP they keep praising CONSTANTLY.

The problem seems to be their low Krupp value and somewhat weak drag coef, but Krupp value is a hidden stat so I can't compare it.

They accidentally gave those AP to Russian ships like... Stalingrad

I mean seriously, that one ship hits harder than some BBs.

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The ONLY good trait of German AP is their damage, and every other trait negates "advantage" this completely.

:Smile_facepalm:

 

Edited by Paladinum

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14 minutes ago, Darkworld_2015 said:

Sometimes I feel Charles Martel has better AP performance than Hipper.. 

 

When there were only 3 tier 10 CA, undoubtedly Hindenburg has good survivability, comparing to DM and Zao. 

But now:

1. So many LARGE cruiser which can fire their guns from greater distance effectively 

 

2. So many BBs with pseudo Yamato guns. I still clearly remember how much hatred I had towards Yamato when I got my Hindenburg (first tier 10), always got citadeled by Yamato no matter how I angled myself, which seldom happened when facing Montana. Now it is like always eating Citadels, forcing me to play Hindenburg passively. 

Herni IV acquired 50-mm HE penetration with IFHE while at the same time being much faster than Hindenburg. At the same time, 27-mm hull extermities and 30-mm midsection also became more widespread among T10 cruisers. The profileration of "semi-lolpen" battleship guns, including Republique's 431-mm and all those 457-mm guns also make the things worse.

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10 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Herni IV acquired 50-mm HE penetration with IFHE while at the same time being much faster than Hindenburg. At the same time, 27-mm hull extermities and 30-mm midsection also became more widespread among T10 cruisers. The profileration of "semi-lolpen" battleship guns, including Republique's 431-mm and all those 457-mm guns also make the things worse.

Thank you, this is what I wanna say but you put in with evidence 🙂

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4 years playing this game, Best AP imo was Russian, followed by French, then US, Japan and last was German.

british AP were kinda exception, but its no doubt among top best. I mean, short fused high velocity AP gun ? dayum man. thats prob perform like Italian SAP - OP AF

 

but ofc WG chart would say otherwise 🤣 - everything balans and zen in soviet russia

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51 minutes ago, humusz said:

but ofc WG chart would say otherwise 🤣 - everything balans and zen in soviet russia

I doubt their God of Spreadsheets can tell them how damage was achieved - whether the majority of damage done by German main guns was made by HE or AP shells.

 

WG: "German ships (cruisers and DDs) will have the best AP shells"

Also WG: *allow German AP to have the highest damage but other characteristics are worthless or standard and German HE pen more than any other line, except British*

Yeah, people will appreciate German AP and will not use German HE often. /s

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