Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Project45_Opytny

About JB, Donskoi and Roon

17 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Member
875 posts
3,756 battles

As the title implies, I need some suggestion and advice on the said three ships.

I exchanged Jean Bart using all the coal I grinded throughout the summer. The next question is, how can I get better in her?

Currently I would sling HE regularly as in KGV as the 15" guns just cannot overmatch a lot of enemies, including a number of tough cruisers. However I would switch shell types much more often in contrast to the brainless HE barbeque of KGV, and when an opportunity emerges (someone has shown his/her broadside to me), slap on MBRB and deliver two salvoes of 380-mm AP shells. As long as the shells would hit, even regular penetration damage would hurt badly. Manouver and position is generally the generic way of battleships, though her unique configuration means while she can remain a full broadside even when bow-on, she would behave extremely awkward when she has to kite away which makes overextension even more dangerous for her in addition to her 32-mm hull. In some extent she shares some similarities with a casemate tank destroyer.

Are there other suggestions on how to play Jean Bart better? To be honest the highest regular tech-tree battleship I have reached is Amagi and I have only reached Bretagne, which has not differentiated from the generic style of WWI dreadnought yet. So it took me several games to adapt to her style of playing.

The other problem is how to build Donskoi, Roon and Hindenburg in the current meta: namely the choice between the range mod and the RoF mod. Personally speaking I would always choose concealment mod for cruisers, especially the Soviet and German high tier cruisers whose concealment is even worse than proper large cruisers and comparable to a number of stealthy battleships. I have completed the exp grind for Donskoi and the one for Roon is almost done with only a few thousand left, and slightly over 50% has been done for Saint-Louis. The Japanese cruisers are too short-ranged so range mod is the most necessary. French cruisers enjoy long range by default so a DPM increase is the best. The problem lies on the Soviet and German ones.

Like Jean Bart, T9 cruisers get uptiered a lot and neither Soviet nor German high tier cruisers are agile and the Soviet cruisers are fragile in addition. Even when fully uprgaded their range only extend to slightly under 18-km, and I doubt whether that would be viable in a T10-heavy worst case scenario. As both Roon and Donskoi are not that agile like French or Japanese ships, it is natural to attempt to fire from even further to prevent oneself from being devstruck. However, as a HE-spammer, Donskoi's DPM is even worse than T6 Budyonny and I worries about that, even though with her even greater ballistics and ability to penetrate 38-mm USN battleship decks with IFHE. RoF mod can at least mitigate this a bit. It seems like another chapter of the eternal debate between DPS alpha and sustained DPM.

I have searched for the Donskoi build problem both here and at the NA Forums. The result is mixed due to the different playstyle of captains with different combinations of rudder/concealment and range/RoF. A poll thread back in spring 2017 in NA shows that 1/3 of the voters support range build while the other 2/3 support RoF build.

Edited by Project45_Opytny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18
[EE09]
Member
87 posts
642 battles

For Roon, AP is the bread and butter of the ship. HE shells are amazingly underwelming. Their 50mm pen is great but damage and fire change is lower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,738
Member
3,656 posts
7,447 battles

For Roon, if you play Nurnberg a lot, you would see the similarities. I would think you need range to counter the other long-ranged kiters. Concealment on German cruisers is a bit stupid, so, even though I'd use concealment mod, rudder mod may do nicely if you sustain your DPM. I think that either Concealment + Range -or- Rudder + Reload.

 

Btw I don't have Roon but Hindenburg, haha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
875 posts
3,756 battles
3 minutes ago, PanJin21 said:

For Roon, AP is the bread and butter of the ship. HE shells are amazingly underwelming. Their 50mm pen is great but damage and fire change is lower.

Yes, and one should learnt about this when grinding trhough Hipper.

German 203-mm HE is still useful against well-angled targets. However you have to rely on your AP shells much more often to make use of their advantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,738
Member
3,656 posts
7,447 battles

While I find the German 203 AP not bad to use, you need to be at mid-close range and hit the superstructure of ships. In this aspect, US 203 AP do better.

5-7k HE salvoes with Hindenburg is common, making her very consistent.

 

PS. WG keep advertising about how good German AP is, but I find them disappointing to use. German BB AP is worst of the three lines.

Edited by Paladinum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
875 posts
3,756 battles
25 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

For Roon, if you play Nurnberg a lot, you would see the similarities. I would think you need range to counter the other long-ranged kiters. Concealment on German cruisers is a bit stupid, so, even though I'd use concealment mod, rudder mod may do nicely if you sustain your DPM. I think that either Concealment + Range -or- Rudder + Reload.

 

Btw I don't have Roon but Hindenburg, haha

 

1 minute ago, Paladinum said:

While I find the German 203 AP not bad to use, you need to be at mid-close range and hit the superstructure of ships. In this aspect, US 203 AP do better.

5-7k HE salvoes with Hindenburg is common, making her very consistent.

 

PS. WG keep advertising about how good German AP is, but I find them somewhat disappointing to use. German BB AP is worst of the three lines.

Thanks for your suggestions! So you suggest a Concealment-Range build as I would not give up concealment for cruisers currently?

A more extreme example of the latter problem is the German 150-mm AP. Though their damage is indeed surprising, they are hard to use in combat situations owing to their mediocre ballistics and light shell weight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,738
Member
3,656 posts
7,447 battles
3 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

A more extreme example of the latter problem is the German 150-mm AP. Though their damage is indeed surprising, they are hard to use in combat situations owing to their mediocre ballistics and light shell weight.

Nurnberg also has disgustingly poor maneuverability for some reason. The ship's protection is already junk and her HP pool is a sick joke.

Give all German ships with 150 mm main guns (DDs included) RN CL short-fused AP to compensate :Smile_glasses:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,811
[TLS]
Member
3,013 posts
18,421 battles
26 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

PS. WG keep advertising about how good German AP is, but I find them somewhat disappointing to use. German BB AP is worst of the three lines.

They forgot to add the disclaimer that if your opponent is angled, it is still useless. From my experience, it is good provided your opponent shows you their broadside.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,738
Member
3,656 posts
7,447 battles
14 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

From my experience, it is good provided your opponent shows you their broadside.

Aka any AP ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
387
[KAMI]
Member
1,216 posts
11,033 battles

Donskoi ->> range build is the safest for farming damage and avoiding BB shells

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gummilicious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
875 posts
3,756 battles
15 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Aka any AP ever.

I remember the USN AP is a tad better though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
162
[POI]
Member
961 posts
9,671 battles

I don't have JB, and I rarely play Richelieu in Random battles thus can't comment much. 

For Donskoi and Roon:

Donskoi I personally go for reload build, with full concealment build. With that it is actually very easy to support your team DD (thus being very helpful for your team to win the match) and stay undetected from planes until the almost stray into your AA zone. Downside is you will need IFHE to vastly improve your quality of life against CA/BB. 

Roon.. Sad story. If you go for range mod, you really have to continuously firing your guns (and land the shells, German shells become very slow at long ranges) if you want to do substantial damage to actually influence the battle. If go for reload, frequently you will need to get into a range that BBs will love to shoot at you. Your ship not stealthy enough to support DD, enemy BBs laughed at your HE alpha dmg and fire chance, and decent Asia server players will angle their ships enough rendering your AP useless. Oh the extra charge of heal will make sure you to stay alive to watch your team gets defeated. 

(I love German line, you can see my 3 most played ships are all KM ships. But I'm very disappointed with the current state of Roon, and to a lesser extend, Hindenburg.) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
162
[POI]
Member
961 posts
9,671 battles
1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

I remember the USN AP is a tad better though.

USN AP has improved autobounced angle, thus more reliable even when opponents are relatively angled

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
875 posts
3,756 battles

@Darkworld_2015 @Gummilicious

Thanks for all of the suggestions above.

Initially I perfer a range build. However, some simple calculation shows that due to her slow reload, Donskoi's stock DPM is even worse than T6 Budyonny, not to say Shchors or Chapayev despite the railgun performance and ability to penetrate the 38-mm USN battleship decks. At the cost of gun handling a reload mod can at least mitigate this issue. Moreover, even her guns has fantastic shell performance, it is questionable would it be really viable to shoot at targets 20-km away. Experience from Hipper shows that though sometimes I may wish for even farther range, such a range is enough and viable under most circumstances. Soviet cruisers may be a little squishy I admit, and it may depends on how well I WASD-hack. At least Donskoi is surprising fast for her size unlike the German cruisers, and her rudder shift time when fully upgraded is comparable to pre-buff Hipper and Prinz Eugen though her turning radius remain whopping. I have stockpiled enough Fxp to skip both the stock hull and the stock GFCS to ease the stock grind, and also a few hundred doubloons recieved for free during the recent events. At least that allows several chances of trial-and-error tests had I find a certain build isn't working for me.

When grinding Ibuki in CN Server I found that stock GFCS with Range mod (17.4-km range) already works for me, while a DPM mod build (16.5-km) feels somewhat underwhelming. Maybe 17.8-km range would be enough?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
397
[SMOKE]
Member
1,201 posts
12,915 battles
5 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

They forgot to add the disclaimer that if your opponent is angled, it is still useless. From my experience, it is good provided your opponent shows you their broadside.

 

which is why German BB and Cruisers are generally not the one chosen when the need to compete arise, their HE is underwhelming , their AP would only work at certain range and when enemy give you a fair broadside .. in sort .. unlikely at the range the German ships brawl ; and at long range the distance mitigate the damage that ca be inflicted ; the are sort of like DD in the current game meta , they are simply out ranged and these days no one care to support close rage charge and brawl , not even those with big pool of HP and nice Armor   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
436
[SALT]
Member
1,687 posts
9,954 battles

Range mod for german cruiser, and you prob want those steering gear mod. Since german cruiser was clumsy.

Why not coancealment, because they clumsy, their support tools was hydro, and you wont get much opportunity to get 6 km close to a dd. they slow as duck, a dd can spot you and have no problem stay away. And without def aa hakuryu ap bomb gonna shave those 12k dmg per raid.

Their ap also shit, its not easy to surprise prey (since they were slow to timely get into location and inscopicius asf) for massive salvo only to see 8 of your 12 shell shatter. Because german ap is as brittle as chalk. 

So you just better play them at long range spamer, Utilizing pen damage to pad dmg like inferior version of hiv they are.

Thats what works in this meta for me. Also even if you trade coancelment module for steering always take CE. 

 

German ap, "best" ap. Ap focused line they say

Edited by humusz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×