DD counter to CV

[MrHumpty_Dumpty]

How do I play DD when I am constantly spotted and harassed by CV.

[Moggytwo]

7 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

How do I play DD when I am constantly spotted and harassed by CV.

Someone asked the same question just last week, I suggest reading this thread.

[EULA_violator]

or this, been a while but the point still stands

[Stormcloak_Rebel]

"If all else fails, you annoy the [redacted] out of CVs and let your team finish the game for you" -  Not Eurobeat   

[PGM991]

most broken thing about CV is their spotting capability, 2nd is strike capability.

fly anywhere with speed 3-4 time that of surface ship, bypass all obstacle (just this 2 factor alone is brake every thing)

once they spot you... 100+ of shell will fly your way, good luck with that.

you can't escape, you can't hide, you can't do anything against them at all if game don't give you strong AA (like... Minotaur strong)

 

 

so, when you see CV in match, throw away everything and hug you team tightly

go where they go, camp where they camp, smoke up for some support 

and if they die.... well, give up.

[Paladinum]

2 hours ago, PGM991 said:

most broken thing about CV is their spotting capability, 2nd is strike capability.

*laugh in RTS*

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

I think the new French DDs, and the main line Russian DDs are better at not being nuked by CVs. They have *beep* concealment, but their long-ranged guns with high ballistics make them capable for artillery support. And there is CV to do the spotting, so you don't really need the small ninjas on the frontline.

[Ordrazz]

20 hours ago, MrHumpty_Dumpty said:

How do I play DD when I am constantly spotted and harassed by CV.

Duck

[RalphTheTheatreCat]

7 minutes ago, Ordrazz said:

Duck

 

[Paladinum]

19 minutes ago, Ordrazz said:

Dive underwater

There fixed it 

[RalphTheTheatreCat]

4 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

There fixed it 

 

[AreaSteal]

There is no counter. (As an exception, you can use HIGH AA DDs and use SMOKING AA. This would be able to annoy CVs.)

Everyone says the basic tactics. I agree with these. But I think these are more appropriate to express DODGE rather than COUNTER.

 

[Onlinegamer]

Just dodge

[Thyaliad]

5 hours ago, Sir_Feather said:

I think the new French DDs, and the main line Russian DDs are better at not being nuked by CVs. They have *beep* concealment, but their long-ranged guns with high ballistics make them capable for artillery support. And there is CV to do the spotting, so you don't really need the small ninjas on the frontline. 

Yup, especially the last one.

Plenty of non-CV matches where a team couldn't contest a cap or flank simply because their only DD on that flank was a Russian one that is outspotted by every other DD. You have to abandon any hope of capping and pray that your team wins the battle of attrition before you can even think about capping.

 

[Moggytwo]

12 hours ago, PGM991 said:

so, when you see CV in match, throw away everything and hug you team tightly

go where they go, camp where they camp, smoke up for some support 

and if they die.... well, give up.

Please do not do any of this, it's terrible advice.  You may as well not queue up as a DD if you're not going to play it. 

You can still do your job as a DD perfectly well with a CV in the game, and if you know what you're doing you can waste the CV's time while you're at it.

6 hours ago, Sir_Feather said:

And there is CV to do the spotting, so you don't really need the small ninjas on the frontline.

CV's can do some spotting, but DD's are by some margin the most useful spotters.  CV's tend to spot briefly then the ships will drop off, only to be spotted again a minute later if the CV comes back.  This is fine for knowing the rough layout of the enemy fleet and getting in occasional shots, but for getting consistent fire into the enemy it's quite sub-optimal, especially against a target that is trying to drop concealment.  A DD will spot those targets far more consistently, and for longer.  Don't forget that surface spotting range is significantly greater than air spotting range as well, so a DD can be spotting far more of the enemy fleet at any one time.

5 hours ago, AreaSteal said:

There is no counter.

You counter CV's by completely wasting their time, and no ship class is better at this than DD's.  What you want to do is show a bit of leg to keep them just interested enough to keep attacking you, while not letting them get any meaningful damage into you.  Nothing frustrates a CV player more than this.

[humusz]

CV like to pad damage too

normaly they would like to shift attention to multiple "farmable" target

when Rocket planes in the air, that means their priorities now is control or kill DD. when its on the air better abandon any intention of caping, disengage and run if your lifesaving skill on cd

when Dive or Torp bomber in the air, you are most likely not on top of his list of "things to bully". and you can work your way around that. just remember to not overextend when doing so. a CV would imidietly bully overextend DD.

also avoid being detected and rocket attacked by 1st wave. if you lost 6k HP before even doing anything. that practicly cap contest half won by enemy. so no need to rush when the 1st rocket squadron probbing  the map

 

The only CV that going up your arse whole game is if you being very major threat, or DD make some stupid decision that made it ez prey. the CV that have unhealthy winning Tryhards and not pad damage is quite rare. prob 1 in 20 matches kinda rare

[Mechfori]

In the end the CV vs surface ship present a dis-balance in the form of CV having ability to deal damage without themselves taking any , and the penalty they pay for is their lost of planes ( whichr really only affect how fast they can spam attack ) ; and further for DD , the issue is that when WG introduce en mass CV and then rework CV ; they still aim for DD to live by stealth and of course this prove not to be .. since planes can go anywhere with speed none can match and with disregard to landmass ; DD's spec especially number of smoke and cool down time for the consumable is still specified as they were pre CV days when the spec is balanced for a visual surface ship vs surface ship game mechanics. This had not been updated for CV and now rework CV ( and of course thrown in more radar ; Hydro and all )

The spotting mechanism is the prime culprit and its time and time already mentioned that CV's planes should not spot for the team , what it should reflect is an icon on mini map telling the team there's an enemy there ( and it should not allow visual targeting ) and that is both accurate and to the fact too ... it also should not be able to keep updating that location data real time , there should be a delay of 5 sec ( in real world its more like 30 minutes and way up to hours ) and it should then ( once spotted ) be updated every 5 sec ( or whatever time balanced for )

As many had mentioned already , right now that's the meta ... I do agree a DD exposed can act somewhat like a firebait so the team can escape ( talk slow BB and CA ) but it only work if the said DD are then supported by team surface ships guns by actively and heavily suppressing enemy guns in range and usually that do not happen ; all I see always is if am playing DD and get spotted by CV and trying my best to dodge and escape ( both planes and incoming enemy surface fire ) all the big guns do is using that as a window to ran back, ran off and never ever support at all .. so in the end it brew further game play that DD refuse to go forward and even refuse to help in AA by any measure ( since they are practically used as scape goat )

[Mechfori]

3 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

....

You counter CV's by completely wasting their time, and no ship class is better at this than DD's.  What you want to do is show a bit of leg to keep them just interested enough to keep attacking you, while not letting them get any meaningful damage into you.  Nothing frustrates a CV player more than this.

Yes, that is true but WG and the game itself do not reward such tactical move and unless otherwise ... its not fair to ask any player to sacrifice his / her play for the team or other team member just so the enemy CV time are wasted without properly paying back the due and right now that due is overdue ...

[PGM991]

4 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

Please do not do any of this, it's terrible advice.  You may as well not queue up as a DD if you're not going to play it. 

my DD play style in CV match is largely depends on how my teammate behave.

if they safely camp behind island and I have to be lone pusher in cap? risking combine wrath of CV+Radar?

if they safely camp behind island and I have to be lone flanker spotting out in open water?

hahaha...  no way dude

if they push and provide me a strong AA coverage, I'll be more than glad to lead ahead and screenings DD/torpedo smoke for team.

to summarised, hug the team.

Counter CV by wasting their time? oh please.

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

5 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

You counter CV's by completely wasting their time, and no ship class is better at this than DD's.  What you want to do is show a bit of leg to keep them just interested enough to keep attacking you, while not letting them get any meaningful damage into you.  Nothing frustrates a CV player more than this.

And this is one of few reasons why the high tier CVs are rarer than during the peak period. The more time to be wasted, the less likely they can cover the service cost even if they keep their premium account running. And then because the CVs have "unlimited amount" of planes, their service cost can easily soar up higher if they take too many unnecessary risks.

 

And of course the triple CV battles at T4 can happen because of the same reasons (along with the almost non-existent AA at low tier).

[Mechfori]

3 hours ago, PGM991 said:

my DD play style in CV match is largely depends on how my teammate behave.

if they safely camp behind island and I have to be lone pusher in cap? risking combine wrath of CV+Radar?

if they safely camp behind island and I have to be lone flanker spotting out in open water?

hahaha...  no way dude

if they push and provide me a strong AA coverage, I'll be more than glad to lead ahead and screenings DD/torpedo smoke for team.

to summarised, hug the team.

Counter CV by wasting their time? oh please.

Well welll, ..............very well put ... DD's play nowadays is more about how the team play or rather how the team do not play , especially in Domination and Epic Center : just how many game there are that are like 1 CV, 2 DD, 3 Areas, and 4 Radar ... in fact this is pretty common and you can had the numbers this and that .... I've been blamed for being the only DD on the team and wandering , hiding and shooting torp ... in a Domination when all the guns do not push, do not support CAP and do not defend at all, all hiding behind rocks and way out and yeah I am in  my T8 Kagero .. and I am not suppose to shoot torp ..... really really I had to ask if they really want a victory or not ; too many guns are looking at it that all others should support them just doing their farming and that's all .... and my take is - forget it - 

[Moggytwo]

12 hours ago, PGM991 said:

my DD play style in CV match is largely depends on how my teammate behave.

if they safely camp behind island and I have to be lone pusher in cap? risking combine wrath of CV+Radar?

if they safely camp behind island and I have to be lone flanker spotting out in open water?

hahaha...  no way dude

if they push and provide me a strong AA coverage, I'll be more than glad to lead ahead and screenings DD/torpedo smoke for team.

to summarised, hug the team.

Counter CV by wasting their time? oh please.

If you basically stop playing the game every time your team isn't very good, then you're significantly reducing your teams chance of winning that battle.  There are plenty of crappy teams that you get to play with, but fortunately if you're in a DD you have a better chance than most ships at being able to carry them to a win.  To do that you need to operate in such a way so as to maximise your effect on the enemy.  If you're staying back with your team you have no map presence, and may as well not be there.

You can operate perfectly well separate from your team in a DD with radar and CV's around.  You can't just completely ignore your team, you always need the ability to fall back into some form of friendly protection if necessary, but that doesn't preclude you roaming far enough away from your team to do your job reasonably well even if your team is hanging a long way back.

As a DD main, I do this all the time.  I maintain my awareness of what the CV is doing at any time, and I know the ship I'm sailing and what its strengths and weaknesses are against CV's.  If you see my post in the thread I linked in post 2 of this thread, I have written up a fairly thorough outline of anti-CV tactics for DD's.  These are very effective if executed well. 

As for countering CV by wasting their time, that is yet another job of the DD now.  Once you are comfortable with anti-CV tactics, and depending on the DD you're in (some are much better at it than others, RN DD's are the best at it), you can try and attract the CV's attention by positioning in what looks like a vulnerable place, only to make them waste their time when they come attempt to attack you.  This doesn't limit your ability to do your other jobs to any significant extent, so long as you are maintaining awareness at all times of the level of vulnerability to enemy shells if spotted, something you should be assessing at all times in your DD anyway.

[Mechfori]

5 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

.....

You can operate perfectly well separate from your team in a DD with radar and CV's around.  You can't just completely ignore your team, you always need the ability to fall back into some form of friendly protection if necessary, but that doesn't preclude you roaming far enough away from your team to do your job reasonably well even if your team is hanging a long way back.

...

 

Humbly I agree and disagree ... in general I do agree with it, but playing DD, you simply cannot hope to outmatch superlative force .... that require team work, that require big guns ... that require ... well ... ( made your choice ) and the part with the argument is where is these ... its OK to be optimistic and proactive, its another case to be reckless and sometime too hot headed. And I had to say so many time I do that too, but I learn .. its simply not worth it when the team decide that they would not play the game ; I've seen game that the BBs all stay last 3 line of map all the duration, I've seen Cruiser CL that right from start pick the largest chunk of Rock and stay behind it and would run as quick as possible any enemy even come close to their gun range ; plenty more ...

Really it would need a very very very positive incentive for one to persuade me to go do the job when others won't do theirs ... and I mean not credit and EXP .. I had to say I will and will continue to ignore the team who fail to sail forward to provide the support and to do the fight .. if they do not want it , then the will not get it .. and I made it very sure I will abandon anyone who shown just sitting and sniping using others on the front as firebait ( and its all too common ) .. no support from the team then no support will be shown to the team.

 

[Moggytwo]

2 hours ago, Mechfori said:

playing DD, you simply cannot hope to outmatch superlative force .... that require team work, that require big guns ... that require ... well ... ( made your choice ) and the part with the argument is where is these ... its OK to be optimistic and proactive, its another case to be reckless and sometime too hot headed.

I totally agree.  I didn't mean go sailing off into the teeth of the enemy alone where you will just get yourself killed.  It's important to assess the situation - are your ships outnumbered by the enemy on this flank, what is the relative distance from the cap to both teams, how many enemy DD's (and which DD's they are) and potential radar threats are on your flank, any CV concerns etc.  You then decide how best to approach the enemy.  Sometimes if you are really outnumbered or outpositioned you need to do a slowing play, where you do your best to slow the enemy down by being generally annoying, this gives your other flank as much time as possible to hopefully win on what is your team's strong flank.  You do what you can basically, and often you can do a significant amount even when outnumbered.

2 hours ago, Mechfori said:

Really it would need a very very very positive incentive for one to persuade me to go do the job when others won't do theirs ... and I mean not credit and EXP .. I had to say I will and will continue to ignore the team who fail to sail forward to provide the support and to do the fight

The incentive is the opportunity to win.  I hate losing battles, and I honestly wouldn't care if I averaged 10k damage a game if it meant my team won.  I don't care in the slightest about credits and XP, although no doubt plenty of others do.  I don't play the game to grind up lines, I just play my favourite ships.

[AreaSteal]

I believe this is matter of liking or battle style. Again, all tactics which you said is reasonable. We should care to these. However, I wouldn't think it is COUNTER.

When I'm wasting CV`s time, I am also wasting my time.

Spot, check enemy DDs and RADAR, shot torp, gun fire and cap. OK ! I like these. Now, run from planes ? Air planes lightly enters my concealment area and attack me.

I hope MAAF buff. At least I want to shoot down more planes. (More precisely, I want a bit penalty for CV`s scout ability.)

56 分前、Moggytwo の発言:

  I hate losing battles,

Anyway, I try to do diversionary action within my skill. But WG…