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ContraXY

How to play dd against cv in t5?

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especially in dual cv games 😞 just get spotted and killed

 

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just got a game like this, no idea how to play in such games...

Edited by ContraXY

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just wait till you got 3 CV match

I'll put down mouse and keyboard altogether. =w='a

 

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Some general tips for playing DDs against CVs.

1) Check your AA range. If it is higher than your air concealment, turn it off. Turn it on only if you are already spotted by planes. DDs are hard to spot by CVs if you don't go in guns blazing.

2) No need to rush the caps. Hang back a bit and see where the planes are going. Contest the caps when the coast is clear. Be patient, you can always contest the cap later even if the enemy takes it first.

3) When you do cap, make sure you have smoke ready. If not, do so at your own risk.

4) Stick near the team (but not right on top of them) so that you can dart into their AA protection if necessary. General rule of thumb for a good distance is to have your concealment radius overlap slightly with a teammate's AA radius. Any greater than that means you are overextended and are at risk of plane attacks.

5) Know what can planes can actually hurt you. Rockets are the only real threat a CV can do apart from spotting. Bombs (especially AP bombs) and torpedoes are of little danger unless you are not actively dodging. So if it is just torpedo bombers and there is no enemy around to shoot you, you are more or less safe. HE bombs can be a threat, but if you dodge properly it is basically down to RNG.

6) When dodging, turn into torpedo bombers, not away. Against bombs, show broadside. Against rockets, sail into rocket planes at an angle. But most important, don't sail in a straight line and never stop moving.

 

Those are just a few tips. But there are plenty more, which also apply for all ships and not just against CVs. For example, paying attention to the minimap and knowing where planes are or are heading to, supporting your team and being ready to fall back if the team does. Most mistakes I see players make is sailing off by themselves without support. You can do that, but understand that it is a risk you must be willing to take, and make sure you have an exit strategy if things go south.

But the most important tip is to play CVs. That way you will know first-hand how CV players think and operate and can learn what tactics work and don't against them. For example, you will learn that rocket planes have a very long run-up time and that sailing directly away from rockets actually benefits the CV player.

I mean, what better way to learn about CVs than playing one yourself? :fish_book:

Edit:

Wow, somebody actually downvoted me for trying to give tips. Must be a very upstanding individual. :Smile_smile:

Edited by Thyaliad
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"Thr average Cv player on this server should be able to kill all enemy DDs in the first 5 mins of the game. Thay leaves the division mates of the CV to easily provide AA for friendly ships"

Quote from Lord Typhoon in another thread

 

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8 minutes ago, dieselhead said:

"Thr average Cv player on this server should be able to kill all enemy DDs in the first 5 mins of the game. Thay leaves the division mates of the CV to easily provide AA for friendly ships"

Quote from Lord Typhoon in another thread

 

You do know that is Lord Typhoon right? His post are often semi-trolling.
 

Though looking at the average skill level of DD players in this server, I kinda agree with him. :Smile_teethhappy:

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7 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

You do know that is Lord Typhoon right? His post are often semi-trolling.
 

Though looking at the average skill level of DD players in this server, I kinda agree with him. :Smile_teethhappy:

Semi trolling or not, one way or another, either directly or from spotting a CV WILL dumpster a DD in short order. Unless youre playing an OP Jutland or Daring with smoke on tap there isnt a lot you can do about it either.

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13 minutes ago, dieselhead said:

Semi trolling or not, one way or another, either directly or from spotting a CV WILL dumpster a DD in short order. Unless youre playing an OP Jutland or Daring with smoke on tap there isnt a lot you can do about it either.

Yup, no different from trying to take on a Wooster or Des Moine or one of the gunboat DDs. Those ships will dumpster your DD in short order if you let them.

That is why DDs should treat CVs the same way as they treat radar. Play cautiously, don't stray too far from the team and don't push the cap unless it is safe to do so, like waiting until planes are elsewhere or radar has been baited. At least against CVs you still have smoke and your AA plus that of your team's to shoot planes down.

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If the enemy CV isn't actively looking for you, don't go too close to friendly ships either. Also note the enemy planes' flight path to your friendly ships. The CV might unintentionally spot you while trying to drop on your teammate.

Its a bit like accidentally blundering into a swarm of torps, that was meant for a BB behind you.

 

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53 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

Yup, no different from trying to take on a Wooster or Des Moine or one of the gunboat DDs. Those ships will dumpster your DD in short order if you let them.

That is why DDs should treat CVs the same way as they treat radar. Play cautiously, don't stray too far from the team and don't push the cap unless it is safe to do so, like waiting until planes are elsewhere or radar has been baited. At least against CVs you still have smoke and your AA plus that of your team's to shoot planes down.

Difference is you can avoid those ships, you cant avoid a CV. You can also torp a gunboat or Wooster. What can you do when a CV attacks you? Oh that's right. Not much hey?

Sure you can watch the mini map but its just luck if the CV decides to fly your way or not.

AA? Dont Make me laugh. CV can dumpster a DM so it has no issues against 90% of DD's AA.

Game is full of CV's atm because AA is garbage again, bunch of exploiters only play it when they can dumpster everyone.

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47 minutes ago, dieselhead said:

AA? Dont Make me laugh. CV can dumpster a DM so it has no issues against 90% of DD's AA. 

You keep on saying this but I have yet to see any proof from you of a CV doing this that doesn't involve the DM player doing something extremely stupid, like camping stationary behind an island or turning into AP divebombers.

But whatever, it is not as though you are going to provide any evidence anyway. Well I am not going to clutter this thread up further replying to your rants. The OP asked for tips and I gave some (though apparently it gets a downvote because it goes against the CV haters' narrative, really shows their maturity when people giving tips get downvoted :Smile_sceptic:). I am just doing what I can to help players get better.

But if you want to be a negative pansy then go start your own CV rant thread. One wonders why you insist on playing WoWs when it is very clear that CVs aren't going away and WG is not going to let the CV population die (not intentionally anyway :Smile_teethhappy:).

Edited by Thyaliad
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7 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

You keep on saying this but I have yet to see any proof from you of a CV doing this that doesn't involve the DM player doing something extremely stupid, like camping stationary behind an island or turning into AP divebombers.

But whatever, it is not as though you are going to provide any evidence anyway. Well I am not going to clutter this thread up further replying to your rants. The OP asked for tips and I gave some (though apparently it gets a downvote because it goes against the CV haters' narrative, really shows their maturity when people giving tips get downvoted :Smile_sceptic:). I am just doing what I can to help players get better.

But if you want to be a negative pansy then go start your own CV rant thread. One wonders why you insist on playing WoWs when it is very clear that CVs aren't going away and WG is not going to let the CV population die (not intentionally anyway :Smile_teethhappy:).

Would you like some replays? I havent seen anny replays from you either so go ....yourself. What else is a DM going to do? like really? lol 

This isnt a court of law and like I said, I dont see you providing evidence for your BS either.

Wasnt even a rant FYI, just stating the facts as I see them in game.

Negative pansy? ROFL. Come to Australia mate, we shall see who the pansy is wont we?

The CV population is a bunch of exploit players, they only play when CV's are OP or AA has been nerfed. Proof of this is the recent patch and hey presto, CV spam everywhere.

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6 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

Some general tips for playing DDs against CVs.

1) Check your AA range. If it is higher than your air concealment, turn it off. Turn it on only if you are already spotted by planes. DDs are hard to spot by CVs if you don't go in guns blazing.

2) No need to rush the caps. Hang back a bit and see where the planes are going. Contest the caps when the coast is clear. Be patient, you can always contest the cap later even if the enemy takes it first.

3) When you do cap, make sure you have smoke ready. If not, do so at your own risk.

4) Stick near the team (but not right on top of them) so that you can dart into their AA protection if necessary. General rule of thumb for a good distance is to have your concealment radius overlap slightly with a teammate's AA radius. Any greater than that means you are overextended and are at risk of plane attacks.

5) Know what can planes can actually hurt you. Rockets are the only real threat a CV can do apart from spotting. Bombs (especially AP bombs) and torpedoes are of little danger unless you are not actively dodging. So if it is just torpedo bombers and there is no enemy around to shoot you, you are more or less safe. HE bombs can be a threat, but if you dodge properly it is basically down to RNG.

6) When dodging, turn into torpedo bombers, not away. Against bombs, show broadside. Against rockets, sail into rocket planes at an angle. But most important, don't sail in a straight line and never stop moving.

 

Those are just a few tips. But there are plenty more, which also apply for all ships and not just against CVs. For example, paying attention to the minimap and knowing where planes are or are heading to, supporting your team and being ready to fall back if the team does. Most mistakes I see players make is sailing off by themselves without support. You can do that, but understand that it is a risk you must be willing to take, and make sure you have an exit strategy if things go south.

But the most important tip is to play CVs. That way you will know first-hand how CV players think and operate and can learn what tactics work and don't against them. For example, you will learn that rocket planes have a very long run-up time and that sailing directly away from rockets actually benefits the CV player.

I mean, what better way to learn about CVs than playing one yourself? :fish_book:

Edit:

Wow, somebody actually downvoted me for trying to give tips. Must be a very upstanding individual. :Smile_smile:

thx for advice! the main problem for me is that if cv players really want to kill dd, i can only do nothing and get killed after rounds of planes, or just stay with team and do nothing. and in lower tiers even teammates cannot protect dds. i think they should somehow buff dd against cvs.

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Play a CV and try to kill DD. Learn what it's like to be the CV.

And in all seriousness, when I am playing my Nicholas or Hill I pray for CVs.

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10 hours ago, ContraXY said:

thx for advice! the main problem for me is that if cv players really want to kill dd, i can only do nothing and get killed after rounds of planes, or just stay with team and do nothing. and in lower tiers even teammates cannot protect dds. i think they should somehow buff dd against cvs.

The hard part is knowing how to balance safety and risk. As you said, you either get killed after rounds of planes or you stick with the team and do nothing. The answer lies somewhere in the middle. You push out further when you are able, but do not hesitate to retreat to the safety of your teammates when the situation becomes too hot to handle. Think of it as how you would play a stealthy assassin in a Moba or Mmorpg. You move out, unleash your attacks, then retreat to your team when you draw too much aggro.

Of course, this is all easier said than done. That's why I highly recommend you to try CVs for yourself, that way you can learn how fast CVs are able to respond to a DD appearing in the map, their turnaround times, how much AA is needed before it can be a deterrent, etc. I really can't stress this enough.

 

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There are also several differences between the 3 nations to take into account when you deal with each of them.

IJN CVs = have rockets with terrible accuracy, and fastest torp speed,. But paper-like durability (US DDs can shred most of them during the attack), and cannot hit DDs with DBs (AP bombs always overpen DDs).

US CVs = have more accurate rockets, but the very high flight speed makes them fly past the DDs with their AA off easily which forces them to turn around and blindly guess where the targeted DD is.

UK CVs = I'm not really sure what kind of threat they pose to DDs other than the aerial spotting which is something the other 2 nations can also do. I mean I have played all 3 nations, and figured out UK CVs are the most difficult to deal with most situations.

 

I think it wouldn't hurt to try to use CV on Co-Op, and see how the bots will react against your moves. The bots tend to maneuver better than some humans for some reasons although they are still dumb enough to keep their AA on, and will not stop shooting when they see any enemy within their gun range.

 

Edit:

Before someone tries to flame me; I have played numerous DD games with more than one CV per team.shot-19_06.25_11_40.50-0923.thumb.jpg.dc063cb7516f1e0861342f6c56ec57db.jpgshot-19_06.25_11_41.01-0291.thumb.jpg.dbddfab793c75c3059c5550feac4fcbe.jpgshot-19_07.28_14_12.31-0625.thumb.jpg.fdf9f195a23ee31717f1cfe6a4c93f71.jpgshot-19_07.28_14_12.43-0069.thumb.jpg.a67824041325c4186279df6c9ae8fb31.jpg

One has plentiful smoke charges, one has none. But both have weak AA.

Edited by Sir_Feather
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As a new player trying out the Hosho I have noticed that the DD players in low tier seems to just take no notice of me always just keep going straight for those cap zones. I can just easily line up the rockets and get chip damage off and keep them spotted easily. It's harder to rocket destroyers if they hide out with their fellow captains for a bit or making lining up rockets annoying. It's also very easy to predict where destroyers will be as they just love to banzai the cap zones. In other word just get your buddies to help you out and try to making lining shots up on you painful. A lot of what Thyaliad said remains true as well.

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On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 12:43 PM, Sir_Feather said:

Before someone tries to flame me; I have played numerous DD games with more than one CV per team.

That is what we have been trying to put through a lot of thick skulls in the last 8 months. The pro-CV players have more matches in other ships and they know the strengths and weaknesses. The anti-cv lot are "i don't play cv so it must be removed" like a broken record.

As for co-op CV. I am sad to say it is a huge pain in the ass. Amazingly, human players are better targets than bots as bots push together to maximize their AA, make themselves dificult moving targets to hit (as opposed to potato humans). From the replays I've watched and some personal experience, I can sum up CVs as ships that "play the long game and perform better as the game drags on". So, the best way to neuter the CV performance is to make the game as short as possible.

56 minutes ago, Kongo_Senpai said:

As a new player trying out the Hosho I have noticed that the DD players in low tier seems to just take no notice of me always just keep going straight for those cap zones. I can just easily line up the rockets and get chip damage off and keep them spotted easily. It's harder to rocket destroyers if they hide out with their fellow captains for a bit or making lining up rockets annoying. It's also very easy to predict where destroyers will be as they just love to banzai the cap zones. In other word just get your buddies to help you out and try to making lining shots up on you painful. A lot of what Thyaliad said remains true as well.

Good. You have taken the first step to becoming a better dd player by doing first hand what  you need to do whack dds.

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On 9/7/2019 at 7:05 PM, ContraXY said:

How to play dd against cv in t5?

This is a repost from a response I wrote to someone asking the same question on reddit.  Hope it's the sort of thing you're after.

You have to look at the advantages you have as a DD. You have excellent air concealment, you have very good maneuverability, and of course you have smoke.

You also need to understand what the CV is doing when he attacks you, and what makes it difficult for a CV to get a good attack off on you. First thing is that the further out the CV can see you, the easier it is to line you up properly and maximise their chance of a good attack. Concealment is absolutely key here. Second thing to know is that the smaller the aiming reticle for the CV, the higher damage you will take. If the CV doesn't have long to aim, or the CV has to change the direction of aim rapidly, then the reticle (and thus dispersion) will be quite large. The third thing you should know is that there is an aiming time of a few seconds from attack initiation till the CV is able to actually release rockets.

So the key premise that mitigating damage from RF's is built around is using your concealment and maneuvering to minimise time from attack initiation to release, and to maximise the change of direction of aim required.

So to minimise time from initiation to release, clearly you want to be traveling towards the RF's at all times. T6 DD air concealment will be around 2.5km, and that will give very little time for the CV to aim. There is no way they can get the reticle anywhere near fully aimed in that time. To maximise change of direction of aim, you don't want to be heading directly at the RF's - you want to be heading at an angle (20° or so) to the direction they are approaching from, and then kick the rudder over hard to tack in the other direction when the RF's are a few seconds from release. This will make it harder for them to line up properly on you, and it will increase the size of the reticle.

If you do this right even with a CV that does everything perfectly they will struggle to do meaningful damage. Sometimes CV's will do no damage at all if the aiming time doesn't complete until they are past you, or they started an attack from a sub-optimal position.

Once the RF's are past you, you need to be turning rapidly to face them again. You want to be unspotted for as long as possible, so unless your AA range is less than your air concealment, don't even turn it on. You should be heading off at an angle while heading towards the RF's as you go off detection, and as soon as you are off detection, you want to turn rapidly to the other tack. This will make it very difficult for the CV to start the attack run early and be aimed in on you before you are spotted, which is a technique they can use. The idea is that you don't want to be where they expect you to be when you're respotted. They may even not be able to get an attack off on you at all if you really out-position them. Apart from that, rinse and repeat the procedure for the RF approach and attack.

That's basically the core of it. If the CV drops fighters over you, that is the time to pop a smoke and turn your AA on, hit your priority sector, def AA if you have it, try to get those fighters down ASAP. If that isn't an option you need to do the same technique as above, while trying to shoot the planes down and leave the fighter area. Turn your AA back off as soon as you are outside concealment range from the fighters.

When you're not being focused by the CV, you need to be keeping an eye on the minimap to see where the CV's planes are, and which squadron he is using. If it isn't RF's then you obviously have plenty of freedom to play your normal game, but if he has RF's and they are headed towards you, you need to think about dropping off detection if you are detected (or not choosing to be detected if you were thinking about it). You also need to think about your position relative to your team and the other team. If you are in a position where when you are spotted the enemy team will have good quality shots at you at a range where you are vulnerable, you may want to consider smoking prematurely if you are confident the CV is coming for you. Also, if you can create a situation where the CV will be flying in AA range of some of your larger team mates as they egress from an attack on you, then they may well lose quite a few planes, and may have to recall as well.

Note that if you do smoke, it's very easy to target you in smoke if you are firing your main guns. Don't do this if there is an RF squadron over you trying to attack. AA use is fine in smoke, they made it so the AA appears to come from all over the smoke, so it won't give away your position. Make sure you move from your last spotted position when you smoked, the CV can use the minimap to attack you, and they will be aiming at the spot they last saw you or just in front of it if you went unspotted on the run in.

Note also that you shouldn't expect to take no damage from CV's - they should be able to get some damage on you, but you are trying to minimise and sometimes eliminate this damage. Don't be discouraged if you take damage - it's part of the game. Just keep trying to use the right techniques. The longer the CV is attacking you, the less effective they will be.

Lastly, different DD's have different strengths - some have better maneuverability and great air detection, they all have different smokes which you can use to your advantage (RN DD smokes are particularly strong against CV's, they can make a CV's life completely miserable), some have good AA (although you need to be very careful with your AA usage as I mentioned above), some are really fast.

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IMO, the only DD that has a chance against CVs at tier V is Nicholas. The CVs would either be Tier IV or VI, so if you get matched up in a DD with a Tier VI CV even the Nicholas with fully specced AA has a hard time.

The other DD branches can barely do a thing to a CV.

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19 minutes ago, PanJin21 said:

IMO, the only DD that has a chance against CVs at tier V is Nicholas. The CVs would either be Tier IV or VI, so if you get matched up in a DD with a Tier VI CV even the Nicholas with fully specced AA has a hard time.

 The other DD branches can barely do a thing to a CV.

I think your going off the expectation that CVs should just do no damage to DDs. That DDs should just delete planes out of the air. Your always going to get touched by a CV no matter how hard you try not to mention the rockets firing is RNG. What you can try to do is minimise the damage done as described by Moggytwo above. The rest is up to RNG.

 

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1 hour ago, Kongo_Senpai said:

I think your going off the expectation that CVs should just do no damage to DDs. That DDs should just delete planes out of the air. Your always going to get touched by a CV no matter how hard you try not to mention the rockets firing is RNG. What you can try to do is minimise the damage done as described by Moggytwo above. The rest is up to RNG.

 

Im talking about the AA suites of Tier 5 DDs. I don't expect CVs to not hit me cuz missiles are RNG and bombs are more skill.

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On 9/10/2019 at 8:08 AM, Kongo_Senpai said:

I think your going off the expectation that CVs should just do no damage to DDs. That DDs should just delete planes out of the air. Your always going to get touched by a CV no matter how hard you try not to mention the rockets firing is RNG. What you can try to do is minimise the damage done as described by Moggytwo above. The rest is up to RNG.

 

but another problem is being spotted. sometimes cvs on the opposite dont attack me but keep spotting me and call their teammates to attack. it's hard to shoot down the planes for ijn dds and their planes just keep scanning the area  instead of attacking any target. i think in current gameplay there is really no way to avoid get killed when the enemy cv and surface ships want to kill you if they are not noob

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On 9/8/2019 at 1:41 AM, dieselhead said:

Would you like some replays? I havent seen anny replays from you either so go ....yourself. What else is a DM going to do? like really? lol 

She gave good advice, you waste everybody's

time with your whinging and whining.

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On 9/7/2019 at 9:05 PM, ContraXY said:

especially in dual cv games 😞 just get spotted and killed

There is already good advice in this thread. I don't play much Random or Ranked these days, but when I do, I play mostly DD.

Thyaliad's post has the most important tips already.

This may help: 

 

Essentially, stay alive. Maybe you want to do damage, but if you are dead, you don't do damage and you won't help your team.

Even if you don't do much damage, you can earn a lot of XP when you spot and cap... capping with CV's would not be early in the match.

Edited by PeterMoe1963
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3 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

There is already good advice in this thread. I don't play much Random or Ranked these days, but when I do, I play mostly DD.

Thyaliad's post has the most important tips already.

This may help: 

 

Essentially, stay alive. Maybe you want to do damage, but if you are dead, you don't do damage and you won't help your team.

Even if you don't do much damage, you can earn a lot of XP when you spot and cap... capping with CV's would not be early in the match.

So this is before his blow up saying CV's are total BS then?

His theory is basically turn AA off, use OP smoke ship, hide next to AA ship, hide in smoke (meanwhile DD 101 says never sit in smoke screen), or if no smoke just dodge.

3 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

She gave good advice, you waste everybody's

time with your whinging and whining.

I actually gave advice she agreed with, get your facts right. In FACT the advice I gave about playing UK DD's is EXACTLY what Zoup said in the video YOU posted as advice!

Either way, you need a bunch of ships to counter 1 ship.

Edited by dieselhead

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