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Grygus_Triss

I feel ripped off...

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I just played a game in Jutland. Spent most of the game out on a flank spotting, in particular, 2 Des Moines. This entailed staying approximately 10km away from them, and occasionally coming under fire if I got closer and got radared.

Now, I don't claim to be a good player,I feel I could have played better, I should have done more damage, but I was not confident enough in my skill to fire on 2 rapid firing heavy cruisers from open water. And every time I tried to use smoke or cover, they went undetected. I made the decision that the best thing I could do for my team was stay alive, and keep those two lit up.

And it worked out. Team won, mostly because there were a lot of other skilled players who were able to clean up the other flanks. But the game was close enough that I feel that my actions could have decided it.

And while my damage was garbage, my spotting damage was almost 130K. Enemy ships would probably be alive and we would have lost if not for me.

So I was somewhat disappointed at my dismal base XP. Not to take anything away from the rest of the team, but I feel the tactical advantage I gave should have earned more.

What do you guys think? Should spotting damage award more XP, or am I just whinging because I didn't do enough real work.

Jutland1.thumb.png.73acdde7a493e717bd4aa4d5098f7cfe.png

Jutland2.thumb.png.7ab2fcdfd43bcfd50e70db5806f76fc3.png

Jutland3.thumb.png.16886917985a494f1d3f4a72341b7eda.png

Jutland4.thumb.png.85f5886bc7e44ed2567cca76d85bab7b.png

 

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Yes, this has been an issue for a long time. WG seems to want you to play like a selfish arsehat and just DMG farm.

That 130k dmg from spotting is 130k dmg your team mates wouldnt have gotten if not for your sacrifice.

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Scoring definately needs tweaking. Critical passive actions not being rewarded enough for a 'team game'.

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WoWs really has an unhealthy fixation on doing damage. That's why a lot of players just want to farm damage selfishly when damage alone doesn't win games. Worst thing is that the WoWs rewards those kinds of selfish play.

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Typical day for a DD player in this Radar heavy game meta ; last night I had my Jutland in a T10 game with only 2 area to be contested but 5 Radar on the other side ; needless to say cannot do much if any

Edited by Mechfori

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Players: "You need to increase reward for teamplay"

WG: "We don't do that here. That's illegal"

 

This is why the game is overpopulated with "sniper" BBs and HE spammers (+ RN CLs).

For this issue alone: Don't blame the players, blame the makers of the game. (You can blame almost all other issues of the game on the makers AND the players)

Edited by Paladinum
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53 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Players: "You need you to increase reward for teamplay"

WG: "We don't do that here. That's illegal"

 

This is why the game is overpopulated with "sniper" BBs and HE spammers (+ RN CLs).

For this issue alone: Don't blame the players, blame the makers of the game. (You can blame almost all other issues of the game on the makers AND the players)

I do find it quite strange that the same game makers who suggest teamplay as the counter for almost all of the other stuff the throw in, don't give better rewards for it.

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1 hour ago, Grygus_Triss said:

I do find it quite strange that the same game makers who suggest teamplay as the counter for almost all of the other stuff the throw in, don't give better rewards for it.

That's because they are full of you know what! WG are far too busy making the next HE spamming whatever to work on their trash port UI or rewarding team play or even making a halfway decent MM system lol

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with these kind of missions, game ruined

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16 hours ago, dieselhead said:

That's because they are full of you know what! WG are far too busy making the next HE spamming whatever to work on their trash port UI or rewarding team play or even making a halfway decent MM system lol

Sad thing is he isn't even meaning to be funny, it is 100% true:Smile_sad:

P.S. Can I throw in the "new and improved"  autopilot. I was using it yesterday and despite me using it to send my BB towards a cap to my left side, it kept making my ship turn to the right. I kept cancelling it and doing a new waypoint but no go. Was in open water, no islands involved. 

Must feel great to be a long term CV player. You get all your hard earned experience with RTS gameplay thrown out, only to find WG has removed hull control of CVs. Well the autopilot must have been obviously actually fixed to compensate you say...…… Nope. This is WG. Are you new here? lol 

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There's one caveat in spotting you missed: The obvious is you'll gain spotting damage when you're the only ship within the enemy's concealment. But, the moment that enemy fired their guns, any team mate(s) that's within the enemy's gun bloom and have direct visual to the enemy ship, you lost spotting damage. So it only benefits you if the enemy never fire their guns, and all your team mates within their gun range is behind islands or smoke.

So you either have an enemy that don't fire at all, or campy team mates that knows how to position themselves, or courageous team mates that'll spot for you unintentionally and allow you to smoke fire.

Edited by Quithelion

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1 hour ago, Quithelion said:

There's one caveat in spotting you missed: The obvious is you'll gain spotting damage when you're the only ship within the enemy's concealment. But, the moment that enemy fired their guns, any team mate(s) that's within the enemy's gun bloom and have direct visual to the enemy ship, you lost spotting damage. So it only benefits you if the enemy never fire their guns, and all your team mates within their gun range is behind islands or smoke.

So you either have an enemy that don't fire at all, or campy team mates that knows how to position themselves, or courageous team mates that'll spot for you unintentionally and allow you to smoke fire.

True. I once got a lot of spotting damage because the ship which was taking advantage of my spotting was a Minotaur.

In this case, I think the enemies were just good at taking advantage of island cover. Which TBH is one of the things the US cruisers do A LOT.

But you do find in a lot of battles that the enemy has eyes on you, and other enemies are firing undetected on you from cover. Nothing is more dangerous or annoying, and it tends to make players make mistakes. Being able to fire on an enemy without being detected. It’s tactics like this which wins games, but it takes 2 ships to do it.

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I played a game with Loyang and did like 14k damage and came 2nd last like above and i lost 0 health. I was spotting all game and playing stealth keeping everyone spotted and avoided engagements. We won by a lot and cos of my positioning we defeated 6 ships on 1 flank without losing a ship. Yes but you dont get rewarded.

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pretty  much the same here ; been in so many game that playing a DD, risk my life to out flank the enemy so they can be kept spotted ; having to keep trying to stay alive and stay stealth ; contribute much to not letting the enemy cap or push through, and help the team push through the flank am on , and might be in the end do 15, 20, 25K damage max and get rewarded none .. WG say we should tam work, but the system penalize those who do and reward those who don't  ; I often had to ask why even bother ; any incoming enemy fire I see guns backing away like full throttle, anytime I cap an Area , the guns left them undefended and simply hand them over to enemy ; and if I want to go cap , I often found all out guns way way back ..

I made it a point nowadays when I see such, I will extract myself from the said flank / area and seek elsewhere when team member would actually push , team play, formation and support ; and I made sure I do not support those who simply would not support others  ( and let them die their just death )

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"Get in the cap, DD."

Unpopular opinion: you got the score you deserved. That is to say, above 1000, which is a solid contribution to the team victory, but well down the list compared to the other players.

You only got 4 of the 240 capture points on offer. No defense points. Less than 500k potential. Pitiful real damage output. Sure, 125k spotting damage is helpful, but hardly that exceptional for a DD  ... Or to put it another way, the DDs that did get those 240 capture points worked a lot harder, and contributed a hella lot more to the victory, than you did.

Look on the bright side - you did better than your Shima xD.

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41 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

"Get in the cap, DD."

Unpopular opinion: you got the score you deserved. That is to say, above 1000, which is a solid contribution to the team victory, but well down the list compared to the other players.

You only got 4 of the 240 capture points on offer. No defense points. Less than 500k potential. Pitiful real damage output. Sure, 125k spotting damage is helpful, but hardly that exceptional for a DD  ... Or to put it another way, the DDs that did get those 240 capture points worked a lot harder, and contributed a hella lot more to the victory, than you did.

Look on the bright side - you did better than your Shima xD.

You’re probably right. And a better player would have done better. And at one point I could have gone to cap, but Yugumo on our flank went instead, and team wanted one DD to stay and spot.

That said, I disagree with the idea that DDs can’t contribute unless capping, yes, that is a VERY IMPORTANT job to DDs, and had the rest of the team been unable to do it, I would have, but radar ships are very dangerous. Who’s to say that my allied DDs would have got any points had those ships not been pinned down?

As a DD player, I don’t even bother trying to cap unless I have a rough idea of where radar ships are

Unfortunately, game does not award points for psychological damage to enemy ships.

Nor the confidence boost to allied DDs by knowing where Radar ships are.

But maybe next time I should just run to other side of map, away from radar ships, and cap there.

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" go cap ; DD " that had fast becoming one of the most hated request a DD player would like to get ; sure DD are mean to do that , but then its for a long time WG had neglect the ship type and their spec, most of them are still the same as balanced for pre Radar , pre CV rework days ... and of course now you face cruiser that are more like CB , but further it put everybody into a ranged engagement game meta ; and when that happen , that practically mean DD are all left out dry cause they do not had the range , and then of course the team still ask them to go cap, go spot, go do this , go do that, but again without the team close behind providing IMMEDIATE up close, up front fire support ... Now there's the problem ; we DD players are asked to do support duty which reward little and most cases reward none , we are asked to go cap, go spot, go flush out that enemy DD but all our guns big or small would only sit behind islands, way back ... its at time like they are using ( whether its intentional or not ) their team DD as firebait to get the enemy exposed, and nobody like to be that.

These days, with domination or even standard battle , and even epic center , all I see is guns rarely ever actually sail forth and push, they just go find the largest piece of rock to hide or sail along that last 2 or 3 line of map ... and then they ask the DD to go out and do theirs .. the part is what I see is guns not doing theirs, and yet keep asking light force to do theirs .. yes that is a rip off alright. .......................... .Yes there are many time both team had that, and the team with the more aggressive DD usually got the CAP cause he/she choose to risk it , and the important part is risking it. If a DD player is risking so much to get the team ahead, should not he / she got rewarded .. sorry usually no .. it will that heavy farming guns who will got most rewarded , so again is it a rip off  ? well you can judge for yourself.

In any case it had degenerate enough today to the point that I would just not push if the team do not push, I am not suicidal and I am not a firebait so the guns can just farm from back there ; and I would made it very sure I do not support the guns that do not support others

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well, while "support" not rewarding enuff But.............

intelligence data is only as good as the one that act upon it

while capping were directly contributed  to the game outcome

 

DD receives approximately 40% of the reward for full HP damage to a spotted ship. the Caveat is, the reward is shared for Every single ship that also have vision of it

140k Spotting dmg should yield quite substantial reward, but your spotting Number prob not from your effort alone. the battle is far from orderly, so its very often the target is in vision of several other ships. Unless ofc an enemy Destroyer - since its prob only other DD can spot it.

So remember, spotting opponent DD yield more reward, as it also count in percentage - not damage number

 

Edited by humusz

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The game has become so stale and passive im going to sail into the corner, every game. 😃

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On 8/31/2019 at 4:19 PM, Mechfori said:

Typical day for a DD player in this Radar heavy game meta ; last night I had my Jutland in a T10 game with only 2 area to be contested but 5 Radar on the other side ; needless to say cannot do much if any

I actually was in this situation last night...and with my Jutland! 

But add to this a T10 CV who happens to know where I am all the time.  

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15 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Unfortunately, game does not award points for psychological damage to enemy ships.

Nor the confidence boost to allied DDs by knowing where Radar ships are.

Winning the battle gives a 2x XP bonus, no? Whatever the exact bonus, playing a routine game and winning is almost always awarded more than playing exceptionally well on a loss. And as I wrote last post, 1000+ XP is a good score. That 11/12 ships your team got 1000+ is an indication that everyone played well. You played well too, just not better than the other 10 ships who you left to do the business of sinking the other ships, defending and capping...

In my (humble) opinion, 125k spotting damage is a Jutland is like tanking 2.5 million potential in Bismark. Commendable, and better than average, but your battle contribution shouldn't end there.

Edited by Rina_Pon
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