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LonerPrime

Will the CV topic ever die? WG says...

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image.thumb.png.7ffb4068a218cd460bfa4a58dc74322c.png

 

First they made surface ships suffer. Now it's the turn of CVs. Yeap, like it wasn't a punishment enough playing Kaga in tier X match. Now I'm gonna get deplaned so fast, my head will spin.

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huh?

shot-19.01.01_15.46.21-0639.jpg

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CV is an excuse or a scapegoat, its the game play that's simply ruined that people are so voiced against and sadly that was indeed bring in by the CV rework ( though CV itself should only shoulder part of the blame ) .. no the topic will not die yet .. because WG will not fix the inbuilt unbalance and unfairness as it is

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There are clearly a bunch of problems here, its just really weird how Notser only delivers WG's news without mentioning problems.

 

  • What happens if you enter a small blob of ships? Multiple sources of these instant damage will create a no fly zone. WG wanted to change this as part of rework.
  • Flanking ships will still continue as normal, CV just have to pay an upfront cost for approaching you.
  • Why do planes still have to split their attack into multiple waves, when its clearly not meant to be practical to do so. Its so jarring knowing over half your squadrons carry payloads for apparently no reason. I want to nuke people that do nothing but HE spam behind islands entire game. Instead, you're very slowly grinding them to death, which is NOT fun for both sides.
  • It also feels odd for there to be an "instant damage" button that requires NO SETUP when all shells, torpedos, and now bombs as well, have travel time, etc.
  • Current air concealment values means that CA/CL and DD can easily ambush planes. CA/CL probably shouldn't be allowed to do that.
  • However, the idea of DDs ambushing planes, is a very interesting one. DDs are masters of concealment, so being able to ambush planes seems quite interesting from a gameplay standpoint. Especially when CV greatly affects concealment play.
  • Flak is a flawed system, shifting DAAF consumable onto mostly flak is WG trying to give up on balancing it, so they're just gutting the consumable. Although the fact there are consumables for countering against 1 specific class itself is awkward, so I see this part as neutral, if not a win.
Edited by Verytis
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Tbh I think they're going in the right direction with the flattening of AA, I've been calling for this for a while.

My concern is that they're doing too many changes at once.

Flatten the AA/plane HP and then see what it looks like. I tried PTS extensively over the weekend but I can't give any honest feedback due to server population meaning 99% of games are single tier. AA and CVs felt better but they do when same tier (and thus going back to the +/-1 argument).

I think they're almost there with CVs and they need to listen to the 'average' to 'decent' players who do both and aren't just raging on the class.

Honestly I've got actual serious hope now because they're listening, albeit in their own 'WG' way.

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27 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

My concern is that they're doing too many changes at once.

To be honest, as a player not a staff, I'm of the same opinion. Yes we need a step-by-step change or progress. Totally agree.

Thank you for your honest opinions, captains! Will put this in the weekly report as well. 

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10 minutes ago, GOMBEE8626 said:

To be honest, as a player not a staff, I'm of the same opinion. Yes we need a step-by-step change or progress. Totally agree.

Thank you for your honest opinions, captains! Will put this in the weekly report as well. 

A legend as usual...

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CV should play as a spotting role. In in return get more credits and exp through intel rather then damage. Cant see another option for balance. Or increase there attack run distance from outside the AA range. So at longest range they take minimal and less damage but ship has more time to dodge. If CV is removed then all the AA and mod equips become useless and also AA ships.

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A lot of changes to digest. Honestly, it is hard to see how this will turn out right now. All these changes, especially now that overlapping AA is back, further means the past 6 months were pointless in terms of balancing. But hey 0.8.5 threw everything out of the window anyway, so might as well start from square 1. So much for the rework being complete enough for Premiums to be sold. :Smile_sceptic:

Anyway, my thoughts:

The new priority system seems to ensure that even weak AA ships can shoot down some planes. Overall I like this change, though the instant damage mechanic does feel very weird. I am going to miss the "fire-and-forget" nature of the old system though. You can no longer just leave the reinforced sector on the side the planes are coming from, and must constantly refresh it. Going to be a bit hectic when I am playing my DDs and cruisers, that's for sure. My only worry is it would be too much for the average player to handle and they will not use it, then complain when they are getting wrecked by planes. We already saw some people doing that with the current system.

About the DFAA changes, I think it is only fair that the bonus to constant AA DPS be lowered, since AA zones will overlap now. Also by buffing flak damage, it seems WG is trying to make the consumable more team-oriented. The idea is that you pop DFAA when your teammates are under attack so that you can shoot down planes with your long range flak puffs, since chances are they will only be within flak range anyway. Flak from lone ships are easy to dodge, but when 2-3 ships share flak it gets a lot harder. And with the buffs to flak damage, even 1 hit can wipe out a good chunk of your planes.

One complaint I have about this new DFAA is that it is actually a nerf to the DDs that have it. Currently, the best way to use an AA DD is to ambush planes by turning off your AA, then turning it on (with correct priority sector of course) while activating DFAA when the planes wander into air detection range. Then boom, the planes get hit by massive unavoidable constant AA damage. I have racked up a lot of plane kills this way in AA DDs (that's is why I disagree with people saying AA DDs are useless, they just aren't using them right). Moving the focus of DFAA from constant AA DPS to flak is a nerf to plane ambushing, because flak only hits the planes on their way out; the real source of damage is the constant AA. Plus the new priority sector requires a ramp up time, so if you were to ambush planes, your AA won't be fully buffed by priority sector (apart from the instant damage). The new DFAA will still be useful in protecting teammates with flak, but using it for self defense purposes as a AA DD will be a bit iffy.

Of course, with the new priority sector this could very well be a buff instead, but it looks like ambushing planes with AA DDs may be a thing of the past. This is good news for CV players, but it is a bit of pity as ambushing planes is a skill element in the current system. Good DD players can ambush planes to get lots of plane kills, while bad players just leave their AA on the entire time and wonder why they are still getting wrecked by rockets. But the DD skill gap is a big issue in the current rework, so I can see why WG wants to do away with it.

With that said though, there are problems that I foresee. For one, it is still pointless to bring in full squadrons since it is highly unlikely you will be able to use all your planes, so pre-dropping and slingshotting will still be a thing. So CV players will still be wasting time and credits emptying their ordnance into the water, which still looks utterly daft (just allow CVs to select how many planes to launch already). Also with the level of plane losses right now, playing a CV just burns a hole in your wallet. Playing CVs cost way too much credits while being unable to do enough to make up for it.

In any case, we have to see how it goes. Notser didn't really mention this, but WG is indeed planning to rebalance AA across tiers and ships (finally!). So ships with weak AA will be buffed, while AA monsters will be nerfed. Being bottom-tiered as a CV will not be as horrible to play, likewise for bottom-tiered surface ships against top tier CVs. That I think is the biggest and most important piece of news.

Edited by Thyaliad

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1 hour ago, Thyaliad said:

One complaint I have about this new DFAA is that it is actually a nerf to the DDs that have it. Currently, the best way to use an AA DD is to ambush planes by turning off your AA, then turning it on (with correct priority sector of course) while activating DFAA when the planes wander into air detection range. Then boom, the planes get hit by massive unavoidable constant AA damage. I have racked up a lot of plane kills this way in AA DDs (that's is why I disagree with people saying AA DDs are useless, they just aren't using them right). Moving the focus of DFAA from constant AA DPS to flak is a nerf to plane ambushing, because flak only hits the planes on their way out; the real source of damage is the constant AA. Plus the new priority sector requires a ramp up time, so if you were to ambush planes, your AA won't be fully buffed by priority sector (apart from the instant damage). The new DFAA will still be useful in protecting teammates with flak, but using it for self defense purposes as a AA DD will be a bit iffy

It's because DDs like Kidd and Grozovoi have AA power levels that surpass even BB AA when they have DFAA on. This is pretty jarring and illogical considering they have way less AA mounts compared to BBs or cruisers. 

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2 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

A lot of changes to digest. Honestly, it is hard to see how this will turn out right now. All these changes, especially now that overlapping AA is back, further means the past 6 months were pointless in terms of balancing. But hey 0.8.5 threw everything out of the window anyway, so might as well start from square 1. So much for the rework being complete enough for Premiums to be sold. :Smile_sceptic:

 

It's all in the timing; "Da, da, roll out CV rework, sell premium CV!" Many, many monies made, then...NERF HAMMER!!!!

"Okay comrade, roll out French DD's! Da, da, is all good! Haha! Much wodka!!"

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1 hour ago, Ryuuoh_DeltaPlus said:

It's because DDs like Kidd and Grozovoi have AA power levels that surpass even BB AA when they have DFAA on. This is pretty jarring and illogical considering they have way less AA mounts compared to BBs or cruisers. 

Even a Sims can defend herself against T8 CVs. If it were Kidd, I can understand because Kidd is on same tier.

To OP, this one topic will not die as long as WG keeps trying to balance it, and CCs make topics about it.

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15 hours ago, GOMBEE8626 said:

To be honest, as a player not a staff, I'm of the same opinion. Yes we need a step-by-step change or progress. Totally agree.

Thank you for your honest opinions, captains! Will put this in the weekly report as well. 

As always your honesty and quick response is much appreciated.

That said,

At the current status, 0.8 series is more of a mess than 0.7 series. Can the team get a daily report or 2 to 3 report a week rather than a weekly report. I think that there is so much imbalance in the game, that the things needed to be fixed is being buried in the tons and tons fix request or suggestions that come in daily in the forum or customer help desk.
With so much report compiled in 1 week, I'm guessing that most will not even bother reading except the first page.

Step-by-step improvement is improvement is good, but a self-inflicted wound (NTC/RB) is just another unnecessary thing to do. Adds unnecessary extra work and time when there is already a ton of things that need to be fixed and/or balanced. Its just.....:Smile_facepalm:

But your honesty and quick response is much appreciated. Just hope they do read the report. Thanks.

Edited by S0und_Theif

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2 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

Step-by-step improvement is improvement is good, but a self-inflicted wound (NTC/RB)

NTC/RB: that is made by a US 406 mm :Smile_trollface:   

Edited by Paladinum
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8 hours ago, Paladinum said:

NTC/RB: made by a US 406 mm :Smile_trollface:   

🤣

@Paladinum Nice Catch. GG

Edited by S0und_Theif

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2 hours ago, Blast_Radius1 said:

It's all in the timing; "Da, da, roll out CV rework, sell premium CV!" Many, many monies made, then...NERF HAMMER!!!!

"Okay comrade, roll out French DD's! Da, da, is all good! Haha! Much wodka!!"

Actually it was the lack of gimmick in RN line that force their hand early. And guess what, RN carpet bomb gimmick is terrible.

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2 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Actually it was the lack of gimmick in RN line that force their hand early. And guess what, RN carpet bomb gimmick is terrible.

*me when waiting for RN bomb to hit*

WG make RN CVs is hilarious to said the least since they already nerf one thing they can punish those campers : Bomb. 

Wait for century and the bomb hit  while there AA shooting be like 

:cap_rambo::cap_rambo:

 

giphy.gif

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AA change huh.

hmm..... wonder how many plane my shimakaze can shot down before he blow me out of existence...

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29 minutes ago, notyourfather said:

I wonder what the game would look like if there's no CV in the first place.... hmmm :cap_hmm:

Expect DDs to spam torps the crap out of you >_>

the Wall of Skill will return, and more to come...……….

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11 hours ago, notyourfather said:

I wonder what the game would look like if there's no CV in the first place.... hmmm :cap_hmm:

"We will build a huge, great wall. And make the battleships pay for it" - USS Benham, circa. 2019.

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11 hours ago, appoclyse said:

Expect DDs to spam torps the crap out of you >_>

the Wall of Skill will return, and more to come...……….

Eh, still radar and hydro to balance DDs.

And wall of skill can still be seen coming from ages away.

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11 hours ago, notyourfather said:

I wonder what the game would look like if there's no CV in the first place.... hmmm :cap_hmm:

Kleber : its free real estate

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16 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Actually it was the lack of gimmick in RN line that force their hand early. And guess what, RN carpet bomb gimmick is terrible.

Oh, I don't know, sometimes you can get a good hit on somebody...if they happen to see your bombs and decide to sail into them, that is.

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You are so sorrowful, Lewd CV you have my greatest pity

 

 

SOLITARY 

__aqua_and_enterprise_kono_subarashii_sekai_ni_shukufuku_wo_and_etc_drawn_by_kagami_kagamina__110afa817737f3ff43889668b5c057b8.jpg

Edited by THAI_THIEF

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