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Max_Battle

Reasons to quit/have a break

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Hell is other people.

TL:DR - Give us skill based MM.

I'm kind of into this French campaign. I wish the directives would drop more often but maybe that's just the All Day Gamer in me. Maybe the frequency is ok for most and gives people a chance to complete them before feeling rushed into the next. I get that and that's cool.

I've been grinding a heap of Coop and Ops too, to do directives and to build up captains and ship familiarity. I like doing this as even when I am in Operations or Coop, I still feel I am preparing for actual combat against the most dangerous foe... weebs er I mean MAN.

I have been saving up a few higher end missions and campaigns too. T8+ stuff that has to be done in randoms, including a few Twitch dropped missions - I have been watching a fair bit of streams lately, you know, getting into the atmosphere and so forth. Sure, I watch for codes but I have watched a fair bit of Flammu, Flambass and that Grumpy Beard fellow as well as the official streams and it felt all gamey and immersive and so forth.

And I just got a couple of free days of premium time so I thought, "Cool! Let's do this!"

I looked up the Clan battle stuff to get some oil for CLAY and enabled that and camoed and flagged up some ships, eager for some real play, some actual battles and some good fights.

What a let down. I know many people have bad runs. I know people post this kind of complaint from time to time... nothing unique about that I just can't remember the last time the wins outnumbered the losses. It's something that would stand out to me and I would probably post about it if I could!

The greatest rewards are from high tier PvP battles. You can't dispute this. You can choose not to play it, but you can't dispute it. I mean some of the regular in game campaigns are tier locked and can only be done in randoms. IE you are "forced" to play here, regardless of the quality of your teammates if you want to get the most out of the game. Sure, just play coop, or operations, play whatever you want, but don't pretend that it compares to high tier play against human opponents. That's like saying, "I know what meat tastes like" when all you've done is nibble on a dried bit of beef jerky while I fang out on half a kilo of rump steak... it's just not the same. But sure, play or eat what you want...

I keep wanting to like this game. I'm not the best player but I am far from the worst... far from it...

But when I see idiots just being plain stupid and ignorant... it curtails my enjoyment... and when it leads to continuous losses... well... it's just not fun.

And we play games for fun right? Right?

Example: Enemy has an Asashio - so half my BBs cluster together in fear...  You know what, there's no point giving examples. We have all seen it. You know what I mean.

I don't know who I am trying to convince here, myself probably. I want to enjoy the game as it seems to be intended to be played... but I don't.

And I keep doing it.... and I keep doing it. I go to bed frustrated and in disbelief and promise myself I'll do something different tomorrow... but then I wake up and I'm all like, "No it will be cool now! Look at all the cool ship models! I wonder who is on to play with? I'll win today yeah!"

What's that about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome?

I don't expect to win all the time. I do expect people in tier 8+ ships to have half a clue. I think that's a fair expectation. I don't think that's odd or elitist to say. I think that's reasonable.

But they don't. And it's not fun.

I know skill based MM will not happen.

But it has too or I think I'm gone, regardless of the fun I have had and the money I have invested over four years.

I'll just have to slap myself across the face, empty a bucket of ice water on my head or get some addiction counselling and get out.

Breaking up is hard to do.

giveup.jpg.d041029aae68a90251ac845b08bdafcc.jpg

 

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23 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

Hell is other people.

To me, Hell is stupid people.

 

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Just now, Paladinum said:

To me, Hell is stupid people.

 

Yeah, kinda my point.

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My reason to take breaks has to do more with my own mood (and my arm) than stupid teams or horrible matches :Smile_veryhappy:

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1. get 60% W/R before you call people stupid.

2. You all claimed to quit here and failed all the time to actually quit anyway. :Smile_trollface:

3. You haven't seen enough stupidity with your own eyes. :Smile_teethhappy:

4. People manage get better stat than you despite they met similar set of team mates and opponents as you.

5. If you believe skill based MM can solve all these, it won't.

6. why 48-52% people wanted skilled based MM? they mostly got DK, given up, and demand better player to carry their sorry asses.

7. I did not get 60% (50%-51% for me) so I have given up talking about MM so far until now because I got fed up by these people a bit.

Edited by spixys
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10 minutes ago, spixys said:

1. get 60% W/R before you call people stupid.

WR is everything for you, huh?

 

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21 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

WR is everything for you, huh?

 

It’s not everything but it is a strong indicator.

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[KAMI]
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If you enjoy a skill based MM, you might enjoy ranked. I'm under the impression that lots of people avoid it tho.

While I enjoy ranked, constantly having to maintain a high performance feels exhausting.

Shooting bad players, and being able to push all the blame on my team, can be relaxing sometimes. Also it lets me try risky ideas, and then just apologize to my team if I screw up with nothing to show for it.

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Understand your feeling, Max. 

Only way I can think of is to Div up with your good pals. It make a win easier for yourself, and might able to put up a good fight before losing. 

Recently I have a few friends coming back, and I enjoyed every moment playing with them in tier 10 ships, win or lose. 

We have good laughs on opponents, friendlies, our even ourselves when something stupid happens, we "reeeee" at each other when we lost in disbelief, we complimented each other when we won a tough match. 

I was a lone wolf for almost a year, I almost forgot how it feels to Div up with good friends. 

Oh more importantly, suggest don't Div with individuals who get salty easily ; you would have hypertension. 

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The top end of the game isn't the top end of the game.

Edited by Max_Battle

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Of course I have seen posts like this from others. Of course I have.

I think the thing that just came to a head for me has been building for some time.

I had been looking forward to some serious high tier games, to a challenge, to a contest, to a good game.

And you can't choose to have that.

I watched one guy, first on my team then on the other, do the same thing - drive towards the enemy and just die. On my team he was in a Hipper and on the Enemy in an Alsace. I don't know why he did that. He's not the only one who does this kind of thing. He died first in both games. I don't care why someone plays like that I just don't want them in my game on either team. Maybe he seriously has a mental impairment and has done that every time he plays. Maybe that's fun for him.

And everyone knows what I'm talking about. I'm not saying anything that people don't already know. It's just different people react differently to it.

For me, this has just today become frustration, mostly, because, as I say, I had been looking forward to getting into my high tier missions and campaigns but I can't because 'stains like that are allowed to drool their idiocy all over what can be a very fun game.

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1 hour ago, Bex_o7 said:

It’s not everything but it is a strong indicator.

I'd be happy with an under and over 50% line.

I don't know how the player base is distributed by WR at the moment.

Intuition suggests that if all games are 24 people chosen at random, or rather 23 people chosen at random plus you and if you are an average player then every game should be a flip of the coin.

The modifier would be you - ie if you are a bit above average, then your influence on the matches over time would cause your WR to creep up.

If you are a bit below average then your WR over time would dip.

I have no idea if this is a correct intuition. 

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Obviously with perfect skill based mm... no one would have over 50% win rate... just by definition. At the moment.. a better player will weight the odds of his team more in his favor... I see these threads, and i get it(i hate lemmings abandoning a flank as my biggest pet peeve).. but what do you mean by skill based mm... because it would mean the more skilled players would win less... their skill will weight the team less... do you all want to lose more?

 

Edited by KingOchaos

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Look, I've never been much of a sportsman but I did play and enjoy tennis as a teenager. I may even get back into it one day.

We played in fixtures each Saturday and we played in grades appropriate to our skill level.

The ranks started at D and went up to A.

I was never much good but I played for fun and so never rose up the ranks much at all. My brother was very good and was in A grade and he enjoyed that.

What people in A grade would not have enjoyed was if I was put into a doubles match with them.

It wasn't some measure of my soul, or any comment on my worth as a human being what my tennis ranking was.. and some people seem to think that your WR in this game is some kind of personal judgement.

It's not. It's just a measure of how well you play a game.

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5 minutes ago, KingOchaos said:

Obviously with perfect skill based mm... no one would have over 50% win rate... just by definition. At the moment.. a better player will weight the odds of his team more in his favor... I see these threads, and i get it(i hate lemmings abandoning a flank as my biggest pet peeve).. but what do you mean by skill based mm... because it would mean the more skilled players would win less... there skill will weight the team less... do you all want to lose more?

 

Sure. More than WR would have to taken into account for the reasons you suggest.

Maybe personal rating might be a better metric?

For example: in the games I listed above that I lost in, my personal rating and my damage done was above average. 

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I do get disheartened when I see teams completely steamroll the enemy. Even if I'm on the winning team. That really shouldn't happen

We all make mistakes every now and then and play poorly due to bad RNG, net issues, tiredness, rl stress etc every now and then, we've all been that ship that dies first because we've moved bust a bit too far ahead, been spotted and focus fired by more enemy than we expected, or get that unlucky citadel.

But, even though I'm sub 50% wr, I know to avoid mistakes like sailing broadside, sailing in straight line. I know to keep an eye on the minimap, to prioritize certain enemies. All little things which you expect players at high tier to do naturally.

The problem with skill based MM, is WG have no idea how to properly measure these skills. Win rate and damage and decent indicators, but not the final indicator.

Of course, IMO, WR and skill means little when said player has just started playing a new ship, and may not have adapted to all its quirks yet. As a Jack of All classes multi ship player, I know my skill suffers because I do not focus on any one ship, or ship type.

Of course, as someone focused on collecting the ships, I don't let bad games get me down. Play the game, try your hardest to win, try not to make any stupid mistakes, try to maximise XP gain, and win or lose, you still get another step closer to the next ship in the line. Oh, and have fun regardless.

That said, the reason why I don't div with with friends in random much is because I don't think I could live up to their expectations, and even if I did, 'performing' like that is exhausting. I just do what I can to support the team, and play with a casual attitude.

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Player Ratings. Not perfect but using a number of parameters to come to a reasonable assessment. This can always be tweaked.

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9 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Player Ratings. Not perfect but using a number of parameters to come to a reasonable assessment. This can always be tweaked.

Ratings like that are miles better than judging people solely by their WR.

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I stopped playing Randoms because... randoms.

My problem with WoWS (Randoms) is that I became frustrated when I had not fun matches. Losing streaks contributed too but not so much as the fun factor. Compounded by the fact that playing WoWS during night time and being frustrated is not a good experience just before bed time.

Obviously my concept of "fun" is subjective but I'm pretty sure playing with or against potatoes is not fun. Yes, winning against potatoes is not fun.

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4 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

The top end of the game isn't the top end of the game.

People should not try to draw comparisons between WOWS and the old WOT where clan wars was pure T10 only and that drove people to get the top tier.  T10 boats can be complete garbage at time.  Its consisitently a stagnant style of gameplay which is only worsened by changing meta and the regional demographics personal values and beliefs that you have to own the biggest shiniest ship in the game at any cost.   Fear of costs and damage drives people to play passively and this doesn’t mesh well with players that are risk takers.   I can count on one hand the amount of games at those levels where people have effectively communicated and pushed map objectives.   

Fo and either muck around in coop or low tier.  Go and shamelessly blap low tier players for a while. Or have a break.  I find that I need time away from the game occasionally after playing and testing a lot.

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Because one word is 

 

TOXIC 

 

High end tier look like a amateur 

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I don't understand all this talk about how it is too hard to do skill based MM because everyone would shift towards 50% win rate...

 

If you look at ranked, you would know it is split into leagues. Players get matched based on the league they're in.

You perform well in your current league? You move up a league overtime due to your WR being over 50%.

You move up a league and then face players that have skills more similar to you. You continue to shift around until you settle in a league that best reflects your skill.

 

And regarding WR...

The goal of a match is to "win", your WR is literally a reflection of all the various factors that help you to achieve the goal of the match.

That makes WR the single most important stat, while all the other stats are a reflection of how you're achieving it.

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Given the amount of players and a diverse selection of a ships tier we have, i think this kind of matchmaking will not work or simply will take you ages to find a battle.

If you really want it, maybe pressing battle and let the matchmaking decide the battle tier and you pick the ship later in the loading screen could work..

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