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dejiko_nyo

Why you do not play midtiers?

Why do you avoid mid-tier (T5 to T8) games?  

49 members have voted

  1. 1. Why I do not play midtier:

    • Economics (XP and Credits)
    • Poor ship performance (this includes tier mismatch)
    • Poor players on team
    • Stepping stone to OP tier
    • I would like to play more but my time instead wasted grinding higher tiers
    • I LUV this tier and do not care for T9/10

44 comments in this topic

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Multichoice. Because no one really has answered this important question related to NTC/RB.

Edited by dejiko_nyo

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Many of the most interesting designs are in T8-10... :Smile_hiding: but I do keep some T5-7 ships

It's largely economics for me

Edited by Paladinum

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I find T 6 and 7 to be fun, laid back, relaxing gameplay... or at least more so that 8,9,10. Granted 6&7 are also the ones used for operations, so I get a bit of use out of them there.

But my goal is to get all T10s, I have already grinded past T7 on all lines. The only reason I have to play below T8 now is either doing operations for fun with friends, or doing operations for wins for daily missions.

All other effort is put into the high tier line grinds. Or whatever event WG is offering that I want the rewards for...

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Mainly the rewards (economics and XP earning) aren't that attractive to me. I only have very limited time to invest into this game, thus need to maximise whatever I can earn. 

Poor performance from other players.. I think this happens everywhere, even on tier 10.

 

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Don't really care about the T9 plus ships.I mainly started this game for the Bismarck,Prinz Eugen,Bayern and Admiral Graf Spee,and enjoy all the T8 and below German ships ( and some of the US ones).I just play what is fun.

I am very slowly doing the T9 ships,and I don't expect to get to the T10 for a while.

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Slowly getting to T10 CV,, but if there are any reason for not playing T6/8 CVs once I get to T10, it would be for the simple reason that you cannot get uptiered to fight T12 AA ships.

Edited by Kartoffelchip

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I think I already stated my reasons in another thread but here they are:

1) I have limited time to play, so I would rather use that time to grind my ships. If I want to play the lower tiers for fun, I'd rather play Scenarios than Randoms.

2) Many campaigns and missions require mid-high tier. Also it is easier to complete those missions at high tier (eg credit or xp requirements).

3) I prefer the WWII era ships over the older ones. Those are usually found in the mid-high tiers.

4) I just don't like the performance of ships at low tiers eg. wonky BB accuracy.

5) Rewards aren't great. Especially now since we have many Premium Tier 9s and 8s to make bank with. For most non-Premium account players Tier 7 is the sweet spot for credit earning.

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I have amended the Economics answer to be inclusive of both xp and credits in case people don't fully understand. Also, from this small sample, it looks what I suspect are the reasons but which is not addressed by wg. Get your friends to vote so we can at least gauge a rough idea of why wg is making a fuss out of a small problem.

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I play T5-8 mostly.

I honestly never paid much attention to the economics. Why I don't play T10 so often is exemplified by the Zao game I had last night: solid game, win, 110k dmg, but no kills or caps and only mid-pack score on my team (the BBs smashed it). When you play a T10 ship there's more pressure (economic and for teamplay) to do well than at lower tiers, so I find I tend to be more risk averse ... which is less fun. Or to put it another way, despite the incredible firepower of a ship like Zao ... Furutaka, Aoba, and Myoko are still more fun for me.

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Everything I want to say @Thyaliad said it better lol

BTW, I think "high-tiers" also include T8? The reason I avoid T8 like the plague is because of the MM

Edited by Paladinum

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i like to win

playing ships at low tiers (apart from OP ones) means that you are on very even footing even with bad players simply because of ship characteristics 

angleing dosnt work because there's no armor on CLs and BBs overmatch each other

CA/CLs dont have heal or armor so any random salvo can chunk you so hard you lose your carry potential for the rest of the game

DDs are OK to play since the same skills carry over whichever tier you play, it's even a bit easier when you consider how bad low-mid tier players are

 

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51 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

BTW, I think "high-tiers" also include T8? The reason I avoid T8 like the plague is because of the MM

Depends on how you want to look at it I suppose.

Personally I consider T8-10 as high tier, T5-7 as mid tier and T4 and below as low tier.

Alternatively T9-10 as high, T7-8 as middle high, T5-6 as middle and T4 and below as low.

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16 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

playing ships at low tiers (apart from OP ones) means that you are on very even footing even with bad players simply because of ship characteristics 

angleing dosnt work because there's no armor on CLs and BBs overmatch each other

CA/CLs dont have heal or armor so any random salvo can chunk you so hard you lose your carry potential for the rest of the game

DDs are OK to play since the same skills carry over whichever tier you play, it's even a bit easier when you consider how bad low-mid tier players are

 

That's why I have always said WoWs has a very bad learning experience for new players. 

Because low tier games do not teach players what to expect in the higher tiers, or any or the more intricate game mechanics at all. New players would play a few games, like what they see and buy a Tier 8 Premium expecting more of the same. Then they get a rude awakening.

WoT suffers from the same problem - the low tiers are hardly representative of the rest of the game.

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8 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

That's why I have always said WoWs has a very bad learning experience for new players. 

Because low tier games do not teach players what to expect in the higher tiers, or any or the more intricate game mechanics at all. New players would play a few games, like what they see and buy a Tier 8 Premium expecting more of the same. Then they get a rude awakening.

WoT suffers from the same problem - the low tiers are hardly representative of the rest of the game.

I keep on seeing skill-based MM as looking better everytime I see such replies. Learn to play among your skill level until you are ready to graduate.

But no. Reasonable sane suggestions to improve things are ignored. Irrational decisions like regrinding go through.

Might as well just sell steel to get money if wg are desperate for money.

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because MM, i don't want to engage with T+2 ships.:Smile-angry:

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Using low level commander on poor performance ship, with potentialy uptiered 3 out of 4 times - for no gains whatsoever  -  What a waste of Time

aside from premiums, or some good "sealclubing" ship (like clemson) - I rarely revisit oldie tech tree ships

 

if you can freely transfer comander to any ship, you might see spikes on Low-mid Tier play - but all of them were seal clubber :Smile_trollface:

If you play MMORPG, why you back to Low Lv starting map - might some nostalgia, want stomp some monster that bully you when still noob, But for Grind ? lol lel

Edited by humusz

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I'm still grinding for Yamamoto. But I still keep some low & mid tier ships in case I get myself burned out on high tier games.

- Shenyang for sealclubbing purpose

- Kongo because I can deal with +2MM in her

- Icarus for a mild sealclubbing/operations

- La Galisonniere for operations

If T8 counts, I also keep Lightning & Edinburgh

 

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2 hours ago, humusz said:

Using low level commander on poor performance ship, with potentialy uptiered 3 out of 4 times - for no gains whatsoever  -  What a waste of Time

aside from premiums, or some good "sealclubing" ship (like clemson) - I rarely revisit oldie tech tree ships

 

if you can freely transfer comander to any ship, you might see spikes on Low-mid Tier play - but all of them were seal clubber :Smile_trollface:

If you play MMORPG, why you back to Low Lv starting map - might some nostalgia, want stomp some monster that bully you when still noob, But for Grind ? lol lel

Sane commentary. And a warning, regrinding WILL lead to seal clubbing. Some people will just spend 500 doubloons (or commander/free xp) to mitigate that commander retraining. wg really haven't thought this through carefully. They are harping on about the benefits(can we even call them benefits) without discussing the cons that outweight it.

PS: In RPGS, I go back to nostalgia low lv map, with my Lvl 99 team just to beat the crap out of the enemies and delight in annihilating them in one shot. So, I expect people to take their 19 point captains, put it on their regrindy ships and proceed to beat the crap out of the seals.

Edited by dejiko_nyo
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Economics and Time Wasted on Grinding High Tier Ships

Economics:
T5 to T7 are fun to play, but the T5 and T6 economics is underwhelming. T6 and T7 scenarios are fun, that is why I keep most of my T6 and T7 ships as well as T5 most BB's and T4 Wyoming. WG could make more scenarios for T5 and T8 ships. Currently most of the scenarios are focused on T6's and T7's with 1 scenario for T8. And that T8 scenario (as of writing is on haistatus) only allows cruisers as limitation. WG could also make the Ranked Sprint a bit more frequent as low Tier only game. T5 to T7 (I don't play CV so i can not comment on this). Their reward "as of the moment", is acceptable. But could still add better rewards to encourage players to play and engage at the same time not be grind heavy or a chore. Want it to be fun.


Time Wasted on Grinding High Tier Ships:
Currently I have only 2 T8 ships and most is at T7. As a casual and occasional player (occasionally competitive), I only have limited time, so I play for fun and enjoyment. I don't mind +/- 2 MM. Just limit the +/- 2 MM.
T8 to T10 ships are grind heavy compared to T5 to T7. Adding insult to injury, 4 of the 5 games are T8 to T0 matches and 2 to 3 of the 4 matches are a loose match. So, yeah. The struggle is real for being the under dog. And yet, have to grind through T8 to reach T9 to be able to be competitive. (This may change after reading Developer Diaries 0.8.7. I hope.)
T8 to T10 is also a requirement to play Ranked and Clan Battles (Even though Clan battles are T10 ships, you will need T8 to be able to use [Rentals]).
 

My own personal opinion: I will never ever play nor purchase T9 Izumo (A-140 G) as it is. She dose not make sense.
Playing Amagi with 2 forward and 3 rear (2 able to fire), then Izumo with 3 forward (2 able to fire) and 0 rear, then Yamato with 2 forward and 1 rear, The T9 seems to have been lost in place. 
Unless WG replace her with the (A-140 F) configuration, and keeping her 410 mm, I will never play nor keep her.
The (A-140 G) should be more as a freemium at T8. Just like the Nelson and Lenin. And the (A-140 F) will be the T9 tech tree ship. Cuz no matter how much you hide her broadside, there is still a soft spot in front of her hull that will still be citadel. No matter how much you angle, place a few good shot in that sweet spot of her bow and you can punish her. This is the same with Yamato.


Poor players or careless players will always be around. We are not perfect and get careless. Sometimes less, sometimes more. No cure for that as we are only hoomans.
Bot players are also always around. Recently seen a rise of players using bot hack programming to grind through either the tech tree or the event. This is a turn off for me for this game.

Edited by S0und_Theif
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Cos i come across people like yous who played 10k battles and have a 60% win rate and all stacked on one team............... =). My team die 5 ships in 3mins...........zzzhhhh

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None of the mentioned but simply lousy game matching .... Playing anything T6 or T7 mean confronting T8 ships with that extra upgrade slot pretty much making the play specified to fail ; T5 ships are frequently matched against all the specified OP premium T6, T7 and no less keep seeing CV that they had no counterplay to speak of ; no less also Radar starting to be seen ..... In short its mid tier but with all the high tier mechanism thrown in ... good training and preparation for high tier game might be but certainly not fun and not a balanced gaming experience ... So in the end why put oneself to such suffering ; play low tier and keep your sanity or just play high tier and gun for it

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Ammended performance issues to include mismatched tiers.

Right now, almost a fifth would play mid-tiers without needing any extra incentive.
Another fifth complain of poor economics.
A quarter feels it is time wasted that could be used grinding the high tiers.

So currently, Rubbish Bureau fixes which of the problems?

Edited by dejiko_nyo

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10 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

So currently, Rubbish Bureau fixes which of the problems?

None of them. RB is not designed to fix any existing player problems, its designed to fix very specific Wargaming problems, which, while players are aware of them, don't feel they affect us much directly.

I think I either heard or read this somewhere, maybe Jingles, anyway, I'm summarising.

The NTC/Research Bureau is WG's solution to two problems.

  •  Create more end game content with minimum effort. WG apparently has as issue with keeping veteran players around because there is not enough end game content once you have grinded most of the lines. They don't have time/resources to introduce new content fast enough to keep these guys interested. So by allowing you to reset lines, and offer rewards for doing so, they 'create' more end game content to keep people playing with minimal effort on their behalf.
  • Resource sink for whales. Apparently, the veteran players, those who have been playing a long time, or those who have more money than sense, have so much FXP, credits, coal, steel, doubloons etc... That they don't know what to do with it. They have apparently already bought all ships, including coal, steel and FXP ships, grinded all lines, but still have huge stockpiles of resources with nothing new to spend it on until a new line comes along. The RB is supposed to be a resource sink for the whales, so they don't spend it all on FXPing new lines and instead spend it on rewards such as powerful new ships instead.

These problems are huge for WG because they affect the revenue stream? Also, the solutions also encourage purchase of premium time, credits, doubloons, conversion of XP to FXP.

Very few of the quality of life improvements that we want encourage us to spend. Which is why they seem to be low priority for WG.

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21 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:
  •  Create more end game content with minimum effort. WG apparently has as issue with keeping veteran players around because there is not enough end game content once you have grinded most of the lines. They don't have time/resources to introduce new content fast enough to keep these guys interested. So by allowing you to reset lines, and offer rewards for doing so, they 'create' more end game content to keep people playing with minimal effort on their behalf.
  • Resource sink for whales. Apparently, the veteran players, those who have been playing a long time, or those who have more money than sense, have so much FXP, credits, coal, steel, doubloons etc... That they don't know what to do with it. They have apparently already bought all ships, including coal, steel and FXP ships, grinded all lines, but still have huge stockpiles of resources with nothing new to spend it on until a new line comes along. The RB is supposed to be a resource sink for the whales, so they don't spend it all on FXPing new lines and instead spend it on rewards such as powerful new ships instead.

These problems are huge for WG because they affect the revenue stream? Also, the solutions also encourage purchase of premium time, credits, doubloons, conversion of XP to FXP.

Very few of the quality of life improvements that we want encourage us to spend. Which is why they seem to be low priority for WG.

<-- Veteran player. Do not care for regrinding. Resource sink? Good luck turning away new players. Eventually the veteran players will leave regardless for various reasons. Also, consumables can be a resource sink and what do they do? Remove it.

Also, create the campaign series of missions for what? Last was updated when? A sellable steel mission last December but otherwise nothing else.

Right now their own financial predicament is due to the fact they have made bad decisions regarding the direction of the game. They have been giving away "freebies" to entice new players. In effect they are using the resource rich veteran players to subsidize their marketing attempts, which honestly speaking, isn't working going by static numbers. You really cannot do anything much about the resource hoarders as they will always exist. Right now they should be more worried about their static player base.

 

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