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S0und_Theif

Pan Europe Destroyer Tech Tree Suggestion (Incomplete Cruiser and Battleship)

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573
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Hi Wargameing Dev team,

I would like to suggest a complete Pan-Europe Destroyer line. With the future release of the Friseland (mmmm..... fries......) and combining Blyskawica to Pan-Europe faction, World of Warships will now have 11 factions to choose from. 7 Nations and 4 Group of Nations.


T1 Afonso de Albuquerque (PT)

Armament:
4 - 120 mm guns (4 x 1)
2 - 76 mm guns (2 x 1)
4 - 40 mm AA guns (4 x 1)

Note: T1 Sloop / Aviso. Considered as a T1 cruiser in the game.


T2 Aetos (GR)

Armament:
4 - 4 in (102 mm)/50 guns (4 x 1)
4 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (4 x 1)

Note: Originally built for the Argentines but later sold to the Greeks


T3 Alsedo (EE)

Armament:
4 - 4 in (102 mm)/60  guns (4 x 1)
1 - 2 pdr (40 mm) pom-pom Mk. II (1 x 1)
2 - 0.30 in (7.62 mm) MG (2 x 1)
9 - 18 in (450 mm) torpedo tubes (3 x 3)

Note: Originally Avtroil (Russian Orfey Class), Captured by Britain 1918, gave it to Estonia, then Sold to Peru 1933 as Almirante Villiar (See Pan America Destroyer Tech Tree Suggestion)


T4 Lennuk (EE)

Armament:
5 - 4 in (102 mm)/60 guns (5 x 1)
1 - 2.5 in (63.3 mm) Model 1916 (1 x 1)
3 - 0.30 in (7.62 mm) MG (3 x 1)
9 - 18 in (457 mm) torpedo tubes (3 x 3)

Note: Originally Miklucho Maklai (Russian Izyaslav Class), Captured by Britain 1918, gave it to Estonia, then Sold to Peru 1933 as Alimarnte Guise (See Pan America Destroyer Tech Tree Suggestion)


T5 Alcala Galiano (ES)

Armament:
5 - 4.7 in (120 mm)/45 guns (5 x 1)
1 - 3 in (76 mm) AA guns (1 x 1)
6 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 3)

Note: Also a possible T5 Pan America Destroyer (Juan de Garay [AR]) See Pan America Destroyer Tech Tree Suggestion

or

T5 Douro (PT)

Armament:
4 - 4.7 in (119 mm)/45 guns (4 x 1)
2 - 2 pdr (40 mm) AA guns (2 x 1)
8 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 4)

Note: Also a possible T5 Pan America Destroyer (Antioquia [CO]) See Pan America Destroyer Tech Tree Suggestion


T6 Regele Ferdinand (RO)

Armament:
5 - 4.7 in (120 mm)/50 guns (5 x 1)
1 - 3 in (76 mm) AA guns (1 x 1)
2 - 1.6 in (40 mm) AA guns (2 x 1)
6 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (3 x 3)

Note: None


T7 Grom (PL)

Armament:
7 - 4.7 in (120 mm)/50 guns (3 × 2, 1 × 1)
4 - 1.6 in (40 mm) AA guns (2 × 2)
8 - 0.52 in (13.2 mm) MG (4 × 2)
6 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 × 3)

Note: Blyskawica sister and Lead of her Class
Note: Same guns found in Regele Ferdinand. 4.7 in (120 mm)/50 made by Bofors


From T8 to T10,
Netherlands and Sweden were capable of building ships after WW2.
Spain went to civil war and is in financial ruin but still managed to build their own ship with US 5 in (127 mm) as optional armament as well as US sold Spain some of their Fletcher, A.M. Summer, and Gearing Class surplus.
Greece dont have the finance to build their own ships, hence bought American surplus Fletchers, A.M. Summers, and Gearings.
Portugal did not re-arm their navy after WW2.
Estonia was absorbed by the Soviet Union.
Poland and Roamnia is under the Soviet block, hance ships are protected by Soviet Union Navy Ships or transferred Soviet surplus.


Sweden Branch (With Torpedo)
T8 Oland (SE)

Armament:
4 - 4.7 in (120 mm)/45 cal Bofors M/44 (2 x 2)
7 - 1.6 in (40 mm)/56 cal Bofors M/36 (2 x 2 and 3 x 1)
8 - 0.79 in (20 mm)/60 cal Bofors M/40 (2 x 4)
6 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tube (3 x 2)

Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.


T9 Halland (SE)

Armament:
4 - 4.7 in (120 mm) Bofors guns m/50 (2 × 2)
2 - 2.2 in (57 mm) Bofors guns m/50 (1 × 2)
6 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors AA guns m/48 (6 × 1)
8 - 21.0 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (1 × 5 and 1 × 3)
"Anti Submarine Mortar"

Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.


T10 Hälsingland (SE)

Armament:
4 - 4.7 in (120 mm) Bofors guns m/44 (2×2)
7 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors AA guns m/48 (7×1)
6 - 21.0 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (1 x 6)
"Anti Submarine Mortar"

Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.

 

Netherlands Branch (Without Torpedo)
T8 Gerard Callenburgh

Armament:
5 - 4.7 in (120 mm) guns (2 × 2 and 1 × 1)
4 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (2 x 2)
4 - 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon guns (2 x 2)

Note: Originally armed with torpedoes, would be wise to remove them as to teach players on their support role and AA specialty like the Friseland.
Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.


T9 Holland (NL)

Armament:
4 - 4.7 in (120 mm) Bofors guns (2×2)
1 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors AA gun (1 x 1) More can be added
"Anti Submarine Mortars"

Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.


T10 Groningen (NL)

Armament:
4 - 4.7 in (120 mm) Bofors guns (2 × 2)
6 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors AA guns (6 × 1)
"Anti Submarine Mortars"

Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.
Note: Friseland Sister ship

 

Spain Branch (No Torpedo at T9 and T10)
T8 Audaz (ES)

Armament: (Original)
5 - 4.1 in (105 mm)/45 DP guns (5 x 1)
Too small for T8

Armament: (WG Modified)
Initial:
5 - 4.7 in (120mm)/50 guns (5 x 1)
Upgradeable to:
5 - 5 in (127 mm)/38 guns (5 x 1) US Fletcher Surplus

4 - 1.5 in (37 mm) AA guns (4 x 1)
8 - 0.79 in(20 mm) AA guns (4 x 2)
6 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (3 x 2)


Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.
Note: Torpedo tubes were removed in later years.


T9 Oquendo (ES)

Armament: (Hull A)
Initial:
4 - 4.7 in (120mm)/50 guns (2 x 2)
Upgradeable to:
4 - 5 in (127 mm)/38 guns (2 x 2) US Gearing Surplus

6 - 1.6 in (40mm)/Bofors 40 guns (3 x 2)

Armament: (Hull B)
Initial:
6 - 4.7 in (120mm)/50 guns (2 x 2)
Upgradeable to:
6 - 5 in (127 mm)/38 guns (2 x 2)

6 - 1.6 in (40mm)/Bofors 40 guns (3 x 2)

Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.
Note: Spanish built destroyer. Completed 1963.
Note: Torpedo tubes were removed in later years.


T10 Roger de Lauria (ES)

Armament:
Initial:
6 - 4.7 in (120mm)/50 guns (2 x 2)
Upgradeable to:
6 - 5 in (127 mm)/38 guns (2 x 2) US Gearing Surplus

6 - 1.6 in (40mm)/Bofors 40 guns (3 x 2)

Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.
Note: Spanish built destroyer. Completed 1969.
Note: She is an improved and enlarged version of Oquendo
Note: Torpedo tubes were removed in later years.

 

US Surplus branch aquired by Spain and Greece
T8 Niki (GR)
Originally USS Eberle "Gleaves Class (US)"

Armament:
4 - 5 in (127 mm)/38 DP guns (4 x 1)
4 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (2 × 2)
7 - 0.97 in (20 mm) Oerlikon guns (7 x 1)
5 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (1 × 5)


T9 Lepanto (ES)
Originally USS Capps "Fletcher Class (US)"

or

T9 Thyella (GR)
Originally USS Bradford "Fletcher Class (US)"

Armament:
5 - 5 in (127 mm)/38 guns (5 x 1)
10 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (5 x 2)
7 to 12 - 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon guns (7 x 1 or 6 x 2)
10 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 × 5)

 

T10 Miaoulis (GR)
Originallt USS Ingraham "Allan M Summer Class" (US)

Armament:
6 - 5 in (130 mm)/38 guns (3 x 2) [4 sec reload]
12 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (2 x 4 and 2 x 2)
10 - 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon guns (10 x 1)
10 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 5)

or

T10 Langara (ES)
Originally USS Leary "Gearing Class (US)"

Armament:
6 - 5 in (127 mm)/38 guns (3 x 2) [3 sec reload]
12 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (2 x 4 and 2 x 2)
10 - 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon guns (10 x 1)
10 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 5) 

 

Eastern Bloc / Destroyer Leader Branch

T4 Mărăști or Mărășești (RO)

Armament: (Modernized 1927)
4 - 4.7 in (120 mm) guns (2 × 2)
3 - 3.0 in (76 mm) AA guns (3 x 1)
or (Hull C)
5 - 4.7 in (120 mm) guns (2 × 2 and 1 x 1)
2 - 3.0 in (76 mm) AA guns (2 x 1)

4 - 17.7 in (457 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 2)

Note: Earliest access to twin mounted guns
Note: T4 because of the small size and small number of torpedo tubes
Note: T4 because her hull is old. Built from 1914 - 1918.
Note: T4 since French destroyer leader Bourrasque class is also at T4 with 130 mm guns

 

T5 Zagreb (YU)

Armament:
4 - 4.7 in (120 mm) guns (4 × 1)
4 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (2 × 2)
2 - 0.59 in (15 mm) Skoda MG (2 x 1)
6 - 22 in (550 mm) torpedo tubes (2 × 3)

Note: Sister ship Beograd was transferred to Germany (German Hydro?)
Note: Sister ship Ljubljana was transferred to Italy (Italian SAP?)

or

T5 Burza (PL)

Armament:
4 - 5.1 in (130 mm)/40 guns (4 × 1)
2 - 1.6 in (40 mm) AA guns (2 × 1)
6 - 550 mm/533 mm/450 mm torpedo tubes (2 × 3)

Note: Grom 1928 sister.
Note: Modified versions of the Bourrasque-class destroyers built for the Polish Navy.


T6 Dubrovnik (YU)

Armament:
4 - 5.5 in (140 mm)/56 guns (4 x 1)
2 - 3.29 in (83.5 mm) AA guns (2 x 1)
6 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (3 x 2)
2 - 0.59 in (15 mm) Skoda MG (2 x 1)
6 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 3)

Note: Large destroyer built by UK for Yugoslav Navy
 

T7 Split 1940 (YU)

Armament:
5 - 5.5 in (140 mm)/56 guns (4 x 1)
5 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (3 x 2)
4 - 0.59 in (15 mm) Skoda MG (2 x 1)
6 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 3)

Note: Large destroyer built by Yugoslavia.
Note: Comissioned in 1958 with a completly different design. We will go with the original 1939 design for this.


T8 Georgi Dimitrov (BG)

Armament:
4 - 5.1 in (130 mm)/50 or /55 guns (2 x 2)
2 - 3.3 in (85 mm)/55 AA guns (2 x 1)
6 - 1.5 in (37 mm) AA guns (6 x 1)
6 to 10 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 3 possible upgrade to 2 x 5 like Ognevoy)

Note: Project 30-K Ognevoy class, Ozornoy, transferred to Bulgaria in 1950
Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.

T9 Wicher (PL)

Armament:
4 - 5.1 in (130 mm)/50 or /55 guns (2 x 2)
2 - 3.3 in (85 mm)/55 AA guns (2 x 1)
7 - 1.5 in (37 mm) AA guns (7 x 1)
10 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 5)

Note: Project 30-bis Skorry class, Skoryy, transferred to Poland in 1958
Note: Original ORP Wicher 1928 was sunk during WW2. Her sister ORP Burza survived the war and was decomissioned in 1960.
Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.

T10 Warszawa (PL)

Armament:
4 - 5.1 in (130 mm)/58 guns (2 × 2)
16 - 1.8 in (45 mm) AA guns (4 × 4)
10 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 × 5)

Note: Project 56 Kotlin class, Spravedlivyy, transferred to Poland in 1970
Note: 5.1 in (130 mm)/ 58 guns are the same guns found in Neustrashimy and Grozovoi
Note: Due to their support nature, Pan Europe T8 to T10 ships will have fewer guns but have insane rate of fire. Faster than Gearing class.


I know some of the suggested ships may not make it as WG will put other ships that were not available in the books or internet, but I am sure they are working on to complete the Pan-Europe tech tree.


Nation Legend:
PL = Poland
PT = Portugal
ES = Spain / Espania
NL = Netherlands
GR = Greece
RO = Romania
EE = Estonia
SE = Sweden
AT = Austria (Austro-Hungary)
YU = Yugoslavia
BG = Bulgaria

 

Edited by S0und_Theif
Adding Spanish Destroyers as well as Gearing, Fletcher A.M. Summers, and Gearing aquired by Spain and Greece, Eastern Bloc ships
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573
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Adding incomplete set of light and heavy cruisers for Pan-Europe.
Its the best I can dig up with what I have. Maybe WG have blue prints for T8 to T10 that the public do not know.


T2 Reina Regente (ES)

Armament:
10 - 5.5 in (140 mm) guns (10 x 1)
12 - 6 pdr (57 mm) guns (12 x 1)
2 - 1 pdr (37 mm) guns (2 x 1)
8 - MG (8 x 1)


T3 Java (NL)

Armament:
10 - 5.9 in (150 mm) guns (10 x 1)
8 - 0.50 in (12.7 mm) MG (8 x 1)


T4 Navarra (ES)

Armament:
9 - 6 in (152 mm) guns (9 x 1)
4 - 3 pdr (47mm) guns (4 x 1)
4 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 2)


T5 Gotland (SE)

Armament:
6 - 6 in (152 mm) guns (2 x 2 and 2 x 1)
4 - 3 in (75 mm) guns (4 x 1)
4 - 0.98 in (25 mm) AA guns (4 x 1)
8 - 1.6 in (40 mm) AA guns (4 x 2)
6 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 3)


T6 Almirante Cervera (ES)

Armament:
8 - 6 in (152 mm) guns (3 x 2 and 2 x 1)
4 - 4 in (102 mm) guns (4 x 1)
3 - 3 pdr (47 mm) guns (3 x 1)
12 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedoes tubes (4 x 3)


Netherlands Branch (No Torpedo Light Cruiser)
T7 De Ruyter (NL)

Armament:
7 - 5.9 in (150 mm) guns (3 x 2 and 1 x 1)
10 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors AA guns (5 x 2)
8 - 0.5 in (12.7 mm) Browning (8 x 1)


T8 De Zeven Provinciën (NL)

Armament:
8 - 6 in (152 mm) guns (4 x 2)
8 - 2.2 in (57 mm) AA guns (4 x 2)
8 - 1.6 in (40 mm) AA guns (4 x 2)


T9 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input


T10 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input

 

Sweden Branch (With Torpedo Light Cruiser)
T7 Gota Lejon (SE)

Armament:
7 - 6 in (152 mm) guns (3 x 2 and 1 x 1)
4 - 2.2 in (57 mm) Bofors guns (4 x 1)
11 - 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (1 x 4 and 3 x 2 and 1 x 1)
6 - torpedo tubes (2 x 3)


T8 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input


T9 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input


T10 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input

 

Spain Branch (Heavy Cruiser)
T7 Canarias (ES)

Armament:
8 - 8 in (203 mm) guns (4 x 2)
8 - 4.7 in (119 mm) guns (4 x 2)
12 - 1.6 in (40 mm) AA guns (6 x 2)
3 - 0.79 in (20 mm) AA guns (3 x 1)
12 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (4 x 3)

Note: Based on British Heavy Cruiser County Class


T8 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input


T9 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input


T10 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input

 

Nation Legend:
PL = Poland
PT = Portugal
ES = Spain / Espania
NL = Netherlands
GR = Greece
RO = Romania
EE = Estonia
SE = Sweden
AT = Austria (Austro-Hungary)
YU = Yugoslavia
BG = Bulgaria

Edited by S0und_Theif
Adding Spanish Heavy Cruiser Branch
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573
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Adding incomplete set of battleships for Pan-Europe.
Its the best I can dig up with what I have.

NOTE: T8 to T10 are pure speculation only.


T3 Espana (ES)

Armament:
8 - 12 in (305 mm)/50 guns (4 x 2)
20 - 4 in (102 mm) guns (20 x 1)
4 - 3 pdr (47 mm) guns (4 x 1)
2 - 0.3 in (7.62mm) MG (2 x 1)


T4 Tegetthoff (AT)

Armament:
12 - 12 in (305 mm) guns (4 x 3)
12 - 5.9 in (150 mm) guns (12 x 1)
20 - 2.6 in (66 mm) guns (20 x 1)

Note: Viribus Unitis sister


T5 Ersatz Monarch (AT)

Armament:
10 - 14 in (355 mm) guns (2 x 3 and 2 x 2)
14 - 5.9 in (150 mm) guns (14 x 1)
20 - 3.5 in (90 mm) guns (20 x 1)
2 - 1.9 in (47 mm) guns (2 x 1)

Note: Tegettoff's successor. Never built as Austro-Hungarian empire fell and lost WW1

and (Branch)

T5 Kaiser Max "Battlecruiser Projekt I-f" (AT)

Armament: (Projekt I-f)
8 - 14 in (355 mm) guns (4 x 2)
18 - 5.9 in (150 mm) guns (18 x 1)
?? - 3.5 in (90 mm) guns
?? - 1.9 in (47 mm) guns

Note: Chose Projekt I-f design, like most of her contemporaries in T5. HMS Tiger (soon), SMS Derfflinger (soon), IJN Kongou, Pyotr Velikiy.
Note: She would compliment Ersatz Monarch as a Battlecruiser in the height of the Battleship and Battlecruiser craze during WW1.
Note: Never built as Austro-Hungarian empire fell and lost WW1


Spain Branch
T6 Reina Victoria Eugenia (ES)

Armament:
Initial:
8 - 13.5 in (343 mm) guns (4 x 2)
Upgrade to:
8 - 15 in (380 mm) guns (4 x 2)

20 - 6 in (152 mm) guns (20 x 1)
10 - 2 pdr (40 mm) guns (10 x 1)

Note: Resembles QE in many ways as Spain was impressed with the success of QE class
Note: WG did not stop giving P.E. Friedrich her theoretical upgrade at T6, this is no exception.

T7 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input.
Note: Probably a preliminary Littorio with 9 - 12.6 in (320 mm) guns and later upgrade to 6 - 15 in (380 mm) guns. See Italian Tech Tree Suggestion (Incomplete) for full details.


T8 Spanish "Littorio"

Armament:
9 - 12.6 in (320 mm) guns (3 x 3)
Upgrade to:
9 - 15 in (380 mm) guns (3 x 3)

12 - 6 in (152 mm) guns (4 x 3)
12 - 3.5 in (90 mm) guns (12 x 1)
20 - 1.5 in (37 mm) guns (10 x 2)
32 - 0.79 in (20 mm) Breda AA guns (16 x 2)

Note: Spain was looking around for a new battleship, they were interested with the Littorio and would have purchased her if WW2 did not start too early.


T9 Spanish "Isonzo (UP 41)"

Armament:
9 - 16 in (406 mm) guns (3 x 3)
12 - 6 in (152 mm) guns (4 x 3)
12 - 3.5 in (90 mm) guns (12 x 1)
20 - 1.5 in (37 mm) guns (10 x 2)
32 - 0.79 in (20 mm) Breda AA guns (16 x 2)

Note: With the success of the Littorio class, Spain further their ship building alliance with Italy and procure their own UP 41 if WW2 did not start too early.
Note: Stretching the limits of Spanish and Italian ship building alliance if WW2 did not start too early.


T10 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input


Netherlands Branch
T6 1913 Battleship Proposal (NL)

Armament:
Initial:
8 - 13 in (340 mm) guns (4 × 2)
Upgrade to:
8 - 14 in (356 mm) guns (4 x 2)

16 - 5.9 in (150 mm) guns (16 × 1)
12 - 3 in (75 mm) (12 × 1)

Note: 2 designs was proposed, one from German (Bayern Class) and the other from Britain (QE Class)
Note: WG did not stop giving P.E. Friedrich her theoretical upgrade at T6, this is no exception.


T7 Design 1047

Armament:
Initial:
9 - 11.1 in (283 mm) guns (3 x 3)
Upgrade to:
6 - 15 in (380 mm) guns (3 x 2)

12 × 4.7 in (120 mm) guns (6 × 2)
14 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors AA guns (7 × 2)
8 × 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon AA guns (8 × 1)

Note: Dutch Scharnhorst


T8 Dutch "Bismarck"

Armament:
Initial:
12 - 11.1 in (283 mm) guns (4 x 3)
Upgrade to:
8 - 15 in (380 mm) guns (4 x 2)

12 - 5.9 in (150 mm) guns (6 × 2)
16 - 4.1 in (105 mm) guns (8 × 2)
16 - 1.5 in (37 mm) guns (8 × 2)
20 - 0.79 in (20 mm) guns (20 × 1)

Note: With the success of the Design 1047 Class, Netherlands further their ship building alliance with Germany and procure their own Bismarck class with 2 smoke stack if WW2 did not start too early.


T9 Dutch "F.D. Grosser"

Armament:
8 - 16 in (406 mm) guns (4 × 2)
12 - 5.9 in (150 mm) guns (6 × 2)
16 - 4.1 in (105 mm) guns (8 × 2)
16 - 1.5 in (37 mm) guns (8 × 2)
20 - 0.79 in (20 mm) guns (20 × 1)

Note: Stretching the limits of Dutch and German ship building alliance if WW2 did not start too early.
Note: Germany would not sell them their 420 mm.


T10 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input

 

Nation Legend:
PL = Poland
PT = Portugal
ES = Spain / Espania
NL = Netherlands
GR = Greece
RO = Romania
EE = Estonia
SE = Sweden
AT = Austria (Austro-Hungary)
YU = Yugoslavia
BG = Bulgaria

Edited by S0und_Theif
Adding Austro-Hungarian Battlecruiser at T5 as a branch
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Love some of the thought you have put into this.

A couple of things I can't but blurt to you:

  • So glad you included the  Regele Ferdinand, it's nothing special - but a picture of her in a dazzle camo that I have, has always intrigued me

  • Always had a soft spot for the Oland Swedish destroyer too

  • Tjerk Hiddes actually got scrapped, which was the name ship of the Gerard Callenburgh class. Gerard Callenburgh became ZH1, and I think this (along with ZG1, formerly a Greek Garland class destroyer) should end up on the German tree.  Isaac Sweers was in this class as well but escaped to Britain and ended up with British DD armament and kit - so maybe she could go on the UK tree?  Did you have in mind the original Tjerk Hiddes design with the spotter plane and twin hazemeyer bofors?

Edited by Panavius
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Bulgaria acquired a Soviet Pr.30-Bis-class destroyer in the 1950s.

Yugoslav DLs Dubrovnik and Split may work as Premiums?

De Ruyter'35 would be hopelessly underpowered at T7 with no torpedoes, only 7 150-mm guns and 50-mm belt, even worse than Duca d'Aosta and roughly on par with Omaha. T5 would be Okay, or T6 with extremely powerful gimmicks like crawling smoke.

Dutch 1913 dreadnought is a Traditional Dreadnought from the 1910s and I do not think she has that potential of a Mackensen which is a fast capital ship. A buff to around 25-kts is more possible like the cases of Konig and Bayern.

With the recent practices, I think Pr.1047 would emerge as a T8 or T9 large cruiser.

TZoli claimed that Austria-Hungary made some BC studies armed primarily with 350-mm guns before their collapse.

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On 9/2/2019 at 6:52 PM, Panavius said:

Love some of the thought you have put into this.

A couple of things I can't but blurt to you:

  • So glad you included the  Regele Ferdinand, it's nothing special - but a picture of her in a dazzle camo that I have, has always intrigued me

  • Always had a soft spot for the Oland Swedish destroyer too

  • Tjerk Hiddes actually got scrapped, which was the name ship of the Gerard Callenburgh class. Gerard Callenburgh became ZH1, and I think this (along with ZG1, formerly a Greek Garland class destroyer) should end up on the German tree.  Isaac Sweers was in this class as well but escaped to Britain and ended up with British DD armament and kit - so maybe she could go on the UK tree?  Did you have in mind the original Tjerk Hiddes design with the spotter plane and twin hazemeyer bofors?

Thanks :Smile_Default:

I try to put in as much as I can in the Pan-EU, but I can't put them all in. Im just sad that I could not put in both Wicher and Vifor. :Smile_sad:

Gerard Callenburgh class "may be" sold as a premium ship. 1 served in DE and the other served in UK. They "may be" sold as a double bundle like Boise and Nueve de Julio (with respective nation gimmiks).
Also later Dutch ships do not have torpedos in their armaments. I was thinking not to put early Dutch ships so that players will be forced to understand later Dutch ship gameplay. Most likely AAW and ASW gameplay.

 

On 9/2/2019 at 7:35 PM, Project45_Opytny said:

Bulgaria acquired a Soviet Pr.30-Bis-class destroyer in the 1950s.

Yugoslav DLs Dubrovnik and Split may work as Premiums?

De Ruyter'35 would be hopelessly underpowered at T7 with no torpedoes, only 7 150-mm guns and 50-mm belt, even worse than Duca d'Aosta and roughly on par with Omaha. T5 would be Okay, or T6 with extremely powerful gimmicks like crawling smoke.

Dutch 1913 dreadnought is a Traditional Dreadnought from the 1910s and I do not think she has that potential of a Mackensen which is a fast capital ship. A buff to around 25-kts is more possible like the cases of Konig and Bayern.

With the recent practices, I think Pr.1047 would emerge as a T8 or T9 large cruiser.

TZoli claimed that Austria-Hungary made some BC studies armed primarily with 350-mm guns before their collapse.

I was not aware Bulgaria aquired a Skorry class.

Yugoslav premium DD, I hope not all, I would like to see T6 and / or T7 Yugoslav ships then at T8 to T10 either have unique eastern bloc ships or Sovier surplus. This is to balance the US surplus sent to the western bloc.
(Very much the same in Pan-Asia tech tree, 1 US Surplus branch, 1 Soviet surplus complimented by PRC inhouse ships banch, and hopefilly / probably 1 war booty branch from Japan [sadly this will never be complete]).

Remember that the Friseland does not have torpedo as well. The idea is Dutch navy will not have torpedoes, insted, they will have consumables and high rate of fire guns as compensation. There are 3 types of smoke generators now, I wonder which one will WG use for her?

You are right that 1913 dreadnought will not be effective as T6, however, remember Bayern, Hull A is her 1916 hull, and her Hull B is her theoretical upgrade if she survived. That is what I was thinking. Hull A is 1913 design, Hull B theoretical upgrade.

Pr.1047 as T9 cruiser OK, but as BB she is T7, like Sharnhorst and Gneisenau. The Dutch based Pr. 1047 on Sharnhorst with a few modifications and thinner armor. I hope she will not be premium. I want to see full tech tree on Pan-EU (BB, CL, CA, DD).

350mm ship not Ersatz Monarch correct? She can be a T5 split between Ersatz Monarch and BC Design. 1 will open Spanish branch and the other will open Dutch branch.

 

Thanks, thats a lot of new info for me :Smile_Default:

謝謝

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35 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

Thanks :Smile_Default:

I try to put in as much as I can in the Pan-EU, but I can't put them all in. Im just sad that I could not put in both Wicher and Vifor. :Smile_sad:

Gerard Callenburgh class "may be" sold as a premium ship. 1 served in DE and the other served in UK. They "may be" sold as a double bundle like Boise and Nueve de Julio (with respective nation gimmiks).
Also later Dutch ships do not have torpedos in their armaments. I was thinking not to put early Dutch ships so that players will be forced to understand later Dutch ship gameplay. Most likely AAW and ASW gameplay.

 

I was not aware Bulgaria aquired a Skorry class.

Yugoslav premium DD, I hope not all, I would like to see T6 and / or T7 Yugoslav ships then at T8 to T10 either have unique eastern bloc ships or Sovier surplus. This is to balance the US surplus sent to the western bloc.
(Very much the same in Pan-Asia tech tree, 1 US Surplus branch, 1 Soviet surplus complimented by PRC inhouse ships banch, and hopefilly / probably 1 war booty branch from Japan [sadly this will never be complete]).

Remember that the Friseland does not have torpedo as well. The idea is Dutch navy will not have torpedoes, insted, they will have consumables and high rate of fire guns as compensation. There are 3 types of smoke generators now, I wonder which one will WG use for her?

You are right that 1913 dreadnought will not be effective as T6, however, remember Bayern, Hull A is her 1916 hull, and her Hull B is her theoretical upgrade if she survived. That is what I was thinking. Hull A is 1913 design, Hull B theoretical upgrade.

Pr.1047 as T9 cruiser OK, but as BB she is T7, like Sharnhorst and Gneisenau. The Dutch based Pr. 1047 on Sharnhorst with a few modifications and thinner armor. I hope she will not be premium. I want to see full tech tree on Pan-EU (BB, CL, CA, DD).

350mm ship not Ersatz Monarch correct? She can be a T5 split between Ersatz Monarch and BC Design. 1 will open Spanish branch and the other will open Dutch branch.

 

Thanks, thats a lot of new info for me :Smile_Default:


謝謝

I have found out that I have made a mistake: Bulgaria acquired an ex-Soviet Pr.30K destroyer in 1950, thus, effectively a modified Ognevoi with some national flavor. Indonesia acquired 8 Pr.30-bis Skoryy-class in two batches in 1959 and 1964.

In additation to Dubrovnik built in Britain in the 1930s and the rather legendary Split (she was completed almost 20 years after her keel was laid down with a fate of twists and turns: cpatured by Italians in 1941, captured and then scuttled by Partisans in 1943 when Italy collapsed, again captured by Germans, salvaged and scuttled again when they evacuated from Yugoslavia, and finally salvaged again and finally completed by Socialist Yugoslavia), Yugoslavia purchased 2 surplus British W-class War Emergency programme destroyers in 1956. Split's parameters would be a little difficult for balancing: she has 4 staple USN 127/38s, 1 quad, 2 twin and 4 single 40-mm Bofors AA guns, and only one quintuple torpedo tube when she was completed in 1958; though she was designed with a speed of 38kts, she could only made 32kts at most, possibly due to damage suffered in the war. Her original design has 5 Skoda 140-mm guns, 5 twin Bofors, 4 twin 15-mm AA MG and 2 triple torpedos.

About Dutch 1913 Dreadnought:

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/86067-lerts-adla-attempt-dutch-1913-battleship-proposal/

And the rumored Austro-Hungarian Battlecruiser studies:

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/5603-kuk-battlecruiser-designs

Edited by Project45_Opytny
  • Cool 1

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I think I may be jealous of whatever library or research centre you have access to!  Appreciate the huge amount of thought and work you put into these lists!

:cap_like:

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21 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

I have found out that I have made a mistake: Bulgaria acquired an ex-Soviet Pr.30K destroyer in 1950, thus, effectively a modified Ognevoi with some national flavor. Indonesia acquired 8 Pr.30-bis Skoryy-class in two batches in 1959 and 1964.

In additation to Dubrovnik built in Britain in the 1930s and the rather legendary Split (she was completed almost 20 years after her keel was laid down with a fate of twists and turns: cpatured by Italians in 1941, captured and then scuttled by Partisans in 1943 when Italy collapsed, again captured by Germans, salvaged and scuttled again when they evacuated from Yugoslavia, and finally salvaged again and finally completed by Socialist Yugoslavia), Yugoslavia purchased 2 surplus British W-class War Emergency programme destroyers in 1956. Split's parameters would be a little difficult for balancing: she has 4 staple USN 127/38s, 1 quad, 2 twin and 4 single 40-mm Bofors AA guns, and only one quintuple torpedo tube when she was completed in 1958; though she was designed with a speed of 38kts, she could only made 32kts at most, possibly due to damage suffered in the war. Her original design has 5 Skoda 140-mm guns, 5 twin Bofors, 4 twin 15-mm AA MG and 2 triple torpedos.

About Dutch 1913 Dreadnought:

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/86067-lerts-adla-attempt-dutch-1913-battleship-proposal/

And the rumored Austro-Hungarian Battlecruiser studies:

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/5603-kuk-battlecruiser-designs

It's ok, everybody makes mistakes. I make mistakes. We are only humans. :Smile_Default:

Eastern Bloc DD or DL tech tree will consist of the following:
T4 Mărăști or Mărășești (RO)
T5 Beograd (YU) or Burza / Wicher 1928 (PL)
T6 Dubrovnik (YU)
T7 Split 1940 (YU)
T8 Georgi Dimitrov (BG)
T9 Wicher 1958 (PL)
T10 Warszawa (PL)

 

Since Reina Victoria Eugenia is built by UK (also designed in 1912), Dutch 1913 will be built by Germany, the same as Project 1047.
Also, both UK and Germany have 1/4 HE penetration insted of 1/6. It is unknown if Pan-EU will carry this in their BB line due to small calibre guns.

 

Project I-f ok as T5 BC. Added in the list as Kaiser Max

 

Edited by S0und_Theif

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