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Grygus_Triss

So German Cruisers are Bad?

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As one of the half dozen T8s I could start grinding next, and as a player who still intends to grind all lines* (almost have T7 clear... Narai next week :cap_look:), I get very annoyed when I hear people say to go play another line, because a certain line does not 'fit the current meta.'

They're all ships in the same game, they should ALL fit the meta, otherwise, why are they there at all? Fix them or remove them. And if you remove them, I'll be even more mad.

Anyway, IS Admiral Hipper, and the Hindenberg and the German CA line in general a bad fit in the current meta?

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They are not great and it's both a consequence from newer ships and really a more skilled playerbase. To say they are  “jack of all trade” ships is essentially just a polite way of saying they do everything in a mediocre manner. 

Frankly, German cruisers was my first love in game. But over the years it has been powercrept so hard there isn't really a reason to grind them over other line(s)

Edited by PunishedKAsual
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Ich vant ein burger buff bitte.

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Well, I dont think its as mediocre as Yuro says.  I've played P. Eugen and had no problem with it, In fact, Ive had more fun with it than the USN cruisers. Your captain also has no need to invest 4 skill points in IFHE since its 200mm alpha AP can pack a pretty good punch. The only downside is it can catch fire very easily, but it still has killer torps to finish off anyone within 6km range.  

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Bad memory came back

*REOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO*

**KABOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM**

EXPLOSIONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

*RIP HIPPER and fk u Midway rocket*

:fish_boom:

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mediocre in game and IRL

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as @PunishedKAsual They have suffered from power creep, and now tend to be mediocre in every role.

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yes

2 days ago Montana killed my Hinden when full bow tank 23k damage

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He's playing a Hipper. A ship that is in Tier 8 and, except that not-recent-at-all RoF buff, has been untouched for a very long while.

 

ALL German ships are released with average stats and get powercrept later. The DD line doesn't have 1/4 pen (for whatever reason), the cruisers get only 5.2 km AA (WTF) and the BBs... if they can get the secondary to work.

Them being "jack of all trades" isn't wrong, but in this game of course that's horrible. That and torpedo DDs :Smile_hiding:

But I still enjoy playing GK and Hinden (except yesterday, when I couldn't play Hinden at all for some reason :Smile_veryhappy:

Edited by Paladinum
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Huh interesting, because I just kinda deal with it and play it. 

Roon secondary is a thing btw, but it will not work in the current meta.

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Ive always been drawn to the KM ships just because they are sexy AF.   Medirocre HE performance be damned.    That AP is still ok.

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Hipper's turtleback armor does not do its role, either. Salem can still citadel it from 8km, and Musashi can also bypass the turtleback. Hipper embodies the whole powercreep on German tech tree.

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2 hours ago, RalphTheTheatreCat said:

Ive always been drawn to the KM ships just because they are sexy AF.

That is the reason why I adopted the "German BB playstyle".

I never really had a playstyle before that.

Edited by Shifty_Panzer

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18 hours ago, RalphTheTheatreCat said:

Ive always been drawn to the KM ships just because they are sexy AF.   Medirocre HE performance be damned.    That AP is still ok.

They are all sexy

Pointy Atlantic clipper bow is made to look like they are going to cut smaller ships in half on contact.

Edited by Paladinum

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On 6/17/2019 at 11:17 AM, Paladinum said:

the cruisers get only 5.2 km AA (WTF)

Pre rework Hindy was actually an AA beast. It was always underestimated in that area but the 105mm guns packed a serious punch, combined that with AFT actually giving them a decent range and it ate planes.

In the few games I've played recently in Hindy I've noticed it seems to take big hits even with proper angling, I enjoyed it for its durability but now it feels pretty average.

I haven't seen many hindys or roons in game recently either, so I'm guessing a lot of people are picking something nicer to play, which is a shame since I really enjoyed the line, especially those two

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0.8.5 is likely to bring a buff to KM AA, if they go through with the planned changes to how ROF is calculated. So there's that.

Yuro's latest vid has a bit of a "contractual obligation" smell to it. Fans paid him to make it, presumably they requested the Hipper, so he made it about the Hipper. It's the first one of the series which paints the featured ship in a negative light.

What I'm trying to say is while his analysis is probably correct - I got bored with the line at Yorck, so can't comment - its personal opinion to an extent. If your own playstyle matches the ship's characteristics, you'll enjoy it more than he did.

Cruisers generally, and T8 cruisers specifically, are anyway in a weird place right now. The MM queue is stacked with BBs, many of them Russian, and staying in stealth is unlikely given the air patrols. A CA closing distance with the enemy is a) detected, b) the only target, and c) facing a crossfire of over-matching AP. AKA dead. In effect, only cruisers operating at max range from the enemy BBs will survive. The KM CAs, optimal in close range engagements against lighter opponents, but with terrible concealment, rarely have an opportunity to shine.

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This is just next level of insulting for those who thing Hipper is bad and i'm felt good about that 

:cap_viking::cap_horn:

shot-19.06.20_02.33.37-0264.jpg

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24 minutes ago, appoclyse said:

This is just next level of insulting for those who thing Hipper is bad and i'm felt good about that 

:cap_viking::cap_horn:

shot-19.06.20_02.33.37-0264.jpg

For every 1 good game there is about 100 bad games. German Cruisers were my 1st line and now with the power creep on other ships they are just very ordinary. In order for them to work you have to be a pretty good player and know how to use the ships and be lucky in a game. These days as soon as you see a German ship, everyone focus fire regardless of distance. Cruisin in my Hinden thinking take on a Des Mo, Henri, Zao, Moskva...... nope and nope, Staling forget it, maybe a Worcester and Mino.

Edited by AxEyBoI

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4 minutes ago, AxEyBoI said:

For every 1 good game there is about 100 bad games. German Cruisers were my 1st line and now with the power creep on other ships they are just very ordinary. In order for them to work you have to be a pretty good player and know how to use the ships and be lucky in a game. These days as soon as you see a German ship, everyone focus fire regardless of distance.

German ship now like a dmg piñata and everyone want a piece of that delicious germen pie which btw not a favorable in current meta but I will keep grinding this line to get the ultimate Hinden ( been rent that ship in CB and felt that AP very uwu ) but then again depend on dispersion. Also I want to ask u guys wat kind of legendary Hinden got ? seem no-body talk about that much :cap_like:

 

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1 minute ago, appoclyse said:

German ship now like a dmg piñata and everyone want a piece of that delicious germen pie which btw not a favorable in current meta but I will keep grinding this line to get the ultimate Hinden ( been rent that ship in CB and felt that AP very uwu ) but then again depend on dispersion. Also I want to ask u guys wat kind of legendary Hinden got ? seem no-body talk about that much :cap_like:

 

Ive had some really good games with the Hindi, on the open map once i got something like 15 Citadels in 1 game but now days are few and far.  She has the Enhanced Repair Party Mod, dont have it yet. In time maybe. To busy grinding other lines.

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On 6/17/2019 at 6:03 PM, blauflamme22 said:

Pre rework Hindy was actually an AA beast. It was always underestimated in that area but the 105mm guns packed a serious punch, combined that with AFT actually giving them a decent range and it ate planes.

And now the 105 is basically useless because AA doesn't shoot for a short period after the planes have gotten into range, for whatever reason (I'm sure it's stupid). That range is simply TOO short to be effective!

Edited by Paladinum

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German Cruisers...

I enjoyed them. I'll talk about them in two different cases, the line and Hindenburg...

The line - if you know what you are doing they are pretty decent till you hit 8.

I found Hipper and Room painful.

Hindenburg is pretty good though.

The big thing to note is that they have 1/4 HE pen, which is like other 203s having IFHE. This is mostly useless except against ships like: GK, Moskva, Stalingrad and Soviet BBs.

Hindy has on-par fires per minute to Zao from memory. I play Zao/Hindy/Henri IV in CB...

Henri is the best

Zao's accuracy is best by so much but she's too squishy

Hindenburg sits in-between.

If I'm to Ninja-knife, I'll go Zao.

If we're after Damage and fires or 50mm counter, I'll go Henri IV. (I run IFHE Henri)

If we need something in the middle, I take Hindenburg.

Hindenburg is good but doesn't fit in a niche and when you are min-maxing in multiplayer games, being a generalist can be the worst...

Edited by S4pp3R
Clarified Henri with IFHE

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They formed the meta last year and probably the first cruiser that ever do that. Seriously Hindenburg back then was like Henri now, they are everywhere and sets fire left right center, and hard to kill. The German HE pen buffs started the trend of Hindenburg heavy games. 

How did they fall off? 

Honestly, she didn't get nerfed that badly, +1s reload doesn't reduce her effectiveness and low tier German cruisers were buffed so they won't fall behind their peer, it's just powercreep exists in the form of Main Battery Reload Booster. Suddenly all French cruisers are better than the Germans by huge margin, they do whatever Germans do but better especially visible with Henri. 

Buffing the German cruisers most likely won't solve this problem, the French would stay superior, it needed drastic buffs which powercreep the French even more in order to make them relevant again. Or well, a nerf towards the French line.

Edited by Vio_Strygun

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It's all about the powercreep and it effects all old lines. Notice how Yamato/Montana has lost their shine after Conqueror and Slava sailed in? Yea, they are good still, but there are better options out there now.

Edited by LonerPrime

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