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xamdam

Remove Newport from Scenario Rotation

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Really, there's no point. This Op is just a waste of time with random teams. Might as well rotate Killer Whale, Aegis and Narai while we wait for them to get around to fixing the others....

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I really want a T8 Allied Battleship scenario.... cos reasons 😄

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3 minutes ago, Kamanah said:

I really want a T8 Allied Battleship scenario.... cos reasons 😄

Brilliant idea.  Ive also got no ulterior motive for T8 but I think it should happen

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Yes, moar ops plz! Just don't make them like Newport...

 

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Haven't played for a while.

Jumped on to check June missions and to see what the "new" recruit a friend thingy is all about.

Two games of Newport to get my ship on.

Two utter fails with me as last ship standing surrounded by sinking and burning pug noobs.

No point blaming CVs when it's just the players that are utter sheet.

I guess I'll check in again in another month.

They'll all have learned the game by then.

Surely?

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Why newport fails: "Snipers of Newport". I believe the full assessment of why people fail is in another thread.

Same thing with Killer Whale. Snipe. Snipe. Snipe.

Actually Aegis is the one I see least failure now. Because the transports need to just get away. The flip side is Aegis is iffy when it comes to five stars because people don't care about the secondary objectives.

Failrai? Proper teams of 4 (yes, FOUR) have more chance of success than a lot of players that just sit back and enjoy their cocktails.

People fail to realise that OPs you have to complete the set of objectives in 20 minutes and there are more opponents than there are allies. It is all about efficiency. The faster you kill an enemy, the less likely the _team health pool_ goes down and the better your chances of survival. More team alive = More DPM = Faster enemy goes down = Better chance of success. The flip side is true: Less team = Less DPM = Enemy can DPM you more = More chances of being sunk = Less team =...  You see both are feedback loops.

Edited by dejiko_nyo
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1 hour ago, Max_Battle said:

No point blaming CVs when it's just the players that are utter sheet.

CVs used to be able to carry because they could fill in the games and kill ships. Now, even with unicum cv players, a cv cannot carry because of the lack of dpm.

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Interesting opinions... Thank you commanders!
As always, we are not able to guarantee that every propose will be accepted but let us deliver your voices at least 🙂

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1 hour ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Why newport fails: "Snipers of Newport". I believe the full assessment of why people fail is in another thread.

Same thing with Killer Whale. Snipe. Snipe. Snipe.

Actually Aegis is the one I see least failure now. Because the transports need to just get away. The flip side is Aegis is iffy when it comes to five stars because people don't care about the secondary objectives.

Failrai? Proper teams of 4 (yes, FOUR) have more chance of success than a lot of players that just sit back and enjoy their cocktails.

People fail to realise that OPs you have to complete the set of objectives in 20 minutes and there are more opponents than there are allies. It is all about efficiency. The faster you kill an enemy, the less likely the _team health pool_ goes down and the better your chances of survival. More team alive = More DPM = Faster enemy goes down = Better chance of success. The flip side is true: Less team = Less DPM = Enemy can DPM you more = More chances of being sunk = Less team =...  You see both are feedback loops.

The problem I see with Newport all the time is people rushing out to meet the enemy.

They run out and die fast for no gain.

I guess they don't trust their shooting at range...

My opinion is that staying in safe harbour, focusing fire and learning to shoot HE at bow on enemies is the answer.

BUT, you need more skill to shoot an enemy bow on.

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I see both problems especially if  you have a Fuso that sits back and ignores the base getting overrun behind him although I also saw a DD camping at the back in the healing circles in the same game.

 

you wanna  know how you make them turn easy torps in particular air dropped torps the bots are paranoid bout them and are better than most players at dodging them.

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1 hour ago, Max_Battle said:

My opinion is that staying in safe harbour, focusing fire and learning to shoot HE at bow on enemies is the answer.

If you are an HE cruiser that's fine, but if you are a BB, sitting safe in the harbour firing HE at bow on targets is just gimping yourself. You will not have the dpm to kill the enemies in time. You are better off playing a cruiser.

What players should be doing is not camping, not yoloing, but instead going up the enemies flanks to get those juicy pens and citadels. Cruisers are good at this but they need to be more careful about it. Cruiser AP are extremely nasty to broadsiding cruisers 

What a lot of people don't seem to realise is that the Op gets significantly harder if you fail to stop the enemy from entering the harbour or killing them in time. Which is why maximising DPM is critical in the first half of the Op. After you sucessfully complete the first half and save the cruiser, you can play a bit more conservatively. For some strange reason I see players doing the exact opposite, they camp in the harbour in the first half of the Op, then suicide into Izumo and its escorts when they fail to complete it.

36 minutes ago, Moganite said:

I see both problems especially if  you have a Fuso that sits back and ignores the base getting overrun behind him although I also saw a DD camping at the back in the healing circles in the same game.

Yeah most my losses or 1-2 star wins are because of camping BBs, especially Fusos. When the majority of my tean pushes out to flank the enemy, it is often a 4-5 star win.

Match ends and those camping BBs are in the bottom half. Meanwhile my BB that had been working the flanks is usually one of the top few.

Edited by Thyaliad
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2 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

BUT, you need more skill to shoot an enemy bow on.

Biggest mistake and myth. That deals the worse damage even for a HE cruiser. What do people in random do to mitigate damage? Bow tank.

1 hour ago, Thyaliad said:

If you are an HE cruiser that's fine, but if you are a BB, sitting safe in the harbour firing HE at bow on targets is just gimping yourself. You will not have the dpm to kill the enemies in time. You are better off playing a cruiser.

What players should be doing is not camping, not yoloing, but instead going up the enemies flanks to get those juicy pens and citadels. Cruisers are good at this but they need to be more careful about it. Cruiser AP are extremely nasty to broadsiding cruisers 

What a lot of people don't seem to realise is that the Op gets significantly harder if you fail to stop the enemy from entering the harbour or killing them in time. Which is why maximising DPM is critical in the first half of the Op. After you sucessfully complete the first half and save the cruiser, you can play a bit more conservatively. For some strange reason I see players doing the exact opposite, they camp in the harbour in the first half of the Op, then suicide into Izumo and its escorts when they fail to complete it.

Yeah most my losses or 1-2 star wins are because of camping BBs, especially Fusos. When the majority of my tean pushes out to flank the enemy, it is often a 4-5 star win.

Match ends and those camping BBs are in the bottom half. Meanwhile my BB that had been working the flanks is usually one of the top few.

This is the answer. The team needs to go out. My leander consistently outperforms any bb (or anyship) in snipers of newport because I go out and broadside all those juicy targets. The key is that you need a tanker/spotter out there as well. Iirc, you have 8 minutes to finish the first 3 waves. By the time the loney ship chased by the nurnberg and aoba arrives, you should have been finishing up the 3rd wave or have finished it up. If you are still finishing the second or first waves, your team is in very bad positioning for the main task force. By the time the main taskforce arrives, you should no longer have the 3rd wave to deal with and be finishing off the nurnberg/aoba. Why is finishing the first 3 waves quickly important? The 2nd and 3rd wave dds. Frequently people hiding behind islands cannot get into good positions to finish those dds. Then they break the perimeter and the main task force arrives to butcher you. The islands are a double edged sword: You can't get hit but your field of vision is limited too. You have to remember that there are THREE waves that potentially come in different direction. By staying static, it means you cannot reposition in time. This version is pathetically easy since the waves can be predicted with 100% accuracy. The first one was the best: completely near random spawn and if you were not in the right position when the 3rd wave spawns, you were quite screwed.

My clan hates the snipers of newport and not the op. As well as the campers of newport. The heal spots are so far back that you can't do jack shit from there. Those that camp there can't even hit the dds that are just about to breach the perimeter due to lack of range and of course, the islands. WG has designed this scenario quite nicely. Good tips to play this scenario: "Who dares, wins", "No risk, no reward", "No pain, no gain", "Rewards wait for those who seize the opportunity", "The Grasshopper and the Ant". It is the failure of the players to realise the situation that dooms the scenario. What I see is that bad habits from playing too much random seep into the other modes. People fail to realise all modes play differently.

2 hours ago, Moganite said:

I see both problems especially if  you have a Fuso that sits back and ignores the base getting overrun behind him although I also saw a DD camping at the back in the healing circles in the same game.

you wanna  know how you make them turn easy torps in particular air dropped torps the bots are paranoid bout them and are better than most players at dodging them.

Correct. You need people out there, but when it is only one or two people out there, it dooms the team. People need to get into the correct position.

The Bots Torpedobeat like God.

Edited by dejiko_nyo
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Well each to their own and anyway, if you have a team of actually organised players you are a step ahead of the pug noob fool club straight off the bat.

When you get an organised, communicating team of players whom you are reasonably sure are reasonably good players then you have more options.

From my experience, the random pug games that I have won in Newport are from HE fire, bow on from ships who stay in the starting circle.

Your mileage may vary of course but in my experience simply saying "that doesn't work" is just wrong.

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my first battle in this OP in this week and this version, eating my lunch while playing it

powered by Soviet Myougi and Vive La France BB

20190606_115439_PRSB106-Izmail_s02_Naval_Defense.wowsreplay

Edited by MatterCore

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1 hour ago, MatterCore said:

my first battle in this OP in this week and this version, eating my lunch while playing it

powered by Soviet BB and Vive La France BB

20190606_115439_PRSB106-Izmail_s02_Naval_Defense.wowsreplay

Good job. Yes, I and I'm sure many here have had battles as nice and easy as that one. Mostly depends on if your team knows what they are doing or not which obviously, most of yours did.

The problem is the average potato doesn't. And most of them don't come here or elsewhere to figure it out.

 

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3 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

Well each to their own and anyway, if you have a team of actually organised players you are a step ahead of the pug noob fool club straight off the bat.

When you get an organised, communicating team of players whom you are reasonably sure are reasonably good players then you have more options.

From my experience, the random pug games that I have won in Newport are from HE fire, bow on from ships who stay in the starting circle.

Your mileage may vary of course but in my experience simply saying "that doesn't work" is just wrong.

There are several paths to victory. So long as you all keep firing and not limit yourselves by hiding behind island, the bow on HE can work. More so if you're in a ship with IFHE.

And sometimes that's the safer option, if you don't know how to be careful when moving out of the circle.

Positioning is a big part of success in this one, many PUGs fail in the first 3 waves because they position themselves somewhere where they cannot maximize their firepower.

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Some Newport games from today:

shot-19_06.07_04_03_03-0908.thumb.jpg.857c8fee688f8de2395f4d557e7b820c.jpg

3 BBs camped inside the harbour the  the entire game, so of course we failed to complete the 1st half of the Op. One of them lost 80% of his health to torps because he was sitting still when the enemy DDs breached the perimeter. The rest somehow died soon after in the 2nd half despite having most of their health remaining, leaving the cruisers to fend for themselves.

shot-19_06.07_05_54.57-0391.thumb.jpg.0a89a1af092698453a211393299a192c.jpg

Lucky thing I was playing a CV so I could carry somewhat. We started the 2nd half with the two camper BBs at full health while every other surface ship was dead. Yes they were at full health because they left their team to die. But despite surviving to the end, they still could not top the cruisers that died in the 1st half, while only topping the BB that also died in the first half. In other words, those 2 campers clearly weren't pulling their own weight in the first half.

Seriously people, if you want to camp in the harbour, play a HE cruiser. Or better yet, don't camp in the first place.

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The one key factor always is people simply fail to move at all, those guys were all like, stationary batteries .... I mean I was in my CL ( Nuremberg ) and already lost more than half my HP doing the out front spotting and yet I had been able to made it to the end and finish a victory when almost all these camper with more HP than me end up dead in the last half or even the first half .. I mean camping is OK if you know how to , but most of them just don't

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21 hours ago, xamdam said:

Really, there's no point. This Op is just a waste of time with random teams. Might as well rotate Killer Whale, Aegis and Narai while we wait for them to get around to fixing the others....

I guess because you didn’t get the string of wins you wanted, that is why you want this OP to disappear? Sorry, but I have to disagree.

If you ask me, it is a good thing there are Ops that force players to lift their game. Too easy isn’t good, IMO. If you want it easy all the time, there is always coop.

To reduce your frustration, there is this thread “social wolves” or something like that, you can find a division there, or find enough players and play one of the “sleeping” missions. I have never used that.

I have observed that when a new OP starts, in the first day or two more matches are lost. After that you see the success rate climbs, I guess because at least some people learn.

I played 4 matches last night, 2 wins, 2 losses. One win was 5 star, genuine surprise - only one ship lost, really good team. The 2 losses, well, my ship was the last survivor, then cross-fired/overrun/focused and died.

You see plenty of ships (including carriers) out in open water, showing broadside, players not positioning or re-positioning their ships properly. Players don’t bother getting proper angles on enemy ships, not angling their ships or using cover. Players don’t disengage and heal when they are low on health. In general, many players just shoot/farm/snipe as if there wouldn’t be primary and secondary mission goals. Many players seem not to look at their maps, or are unable to process what they see, probably because they look through their gunsights the entire match.

If the missions are too easy, these players could just always continue like that. That’s why I think some missions should be hard – for people to learn.

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7 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Positioning is a big part of success in this one, many PUGs fail in the first 3 waves because they position themselves somewhere where they cannot maximize their firepower.

Yes, I totally agree.

Maximizing firepower means you cannot just sit in open water and shoot at the bows of attacking ships. You’d have to get into some kind of flanking position. The more enemy broadside to shoot at, the better.

For OP’s IFHE is superior for 150mm cruisers, compared to CE. You pretty much fire constantly, so CE doesn’t do much.

Cruisers with shorter gun range and high-ish arcs can use island cover effectively and preserve health during the first waves. During the final wave, this gets more and more difficult. You have to just keep maneuvering and be smart what ships you remove first. Smoke could help here, but it is rare that ships with smoke think of the team.

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22 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

They'll all have learned the game by then.

Surely?

I commend your optimism :Smile_honoring: 

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4 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

I guess because you didn’t get the string of wins you wanted, that is why you want this OP to disappear?

Not quite that simple there Peter san... and you make me sound like a lazy moaner when in fact I'm probably one of the most active (when I'm playing) people in the Social Wolves channel. I do quite well in Ops and try like hell to get some sort of teamwork going. Be it map pings, asking for volunteers to handle certain jobs, etc.

The sheer frustration though that this Op brings in the number of fails puts it out of my list of "fun". As I usually mount economy flags and XP flags / camo on grind ships (nothing left to grind at those tiers anymore though except my Sinop in the next Narai), it's often a gamble that I end up regretting when I watch my team either yolo to their deaths in the first few waves or cower in repair waiting to be overwhelmed and torped. 

Most people I play with (clan mates and Social Wolves) take the week off from scenarios when Newport is on, for the same reasons.

Challenging, is one thing. Near impossible for random potatoes that can't communicate is another. Sure, they can leave the op available for groups that want to play it but I think it should be pulled from the "Operation of the Week" rotation.

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6 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

shot-19_06.07_05_54.57-0391.thumb.jpg.0a89a1af092698453a211393299a192c.jpg

This is an example of a sad team when the CV carries the game. And carry by a mile. Been there Furiously before. Your #2 and #3 died because #4 and #5 were not tanking doing their job. #6 died because he went out and tried to do his job but in the end fell to the barrage? #7 was either unlucky or he doesn't know how to Molotov.

Next time I op, care to join?

5 hours ago, Mechfori said:

The one key factor always is people simply fail to move at all, those guys were all like, stationary batteries .... I mean I was in my CL ( Nuremberg ) and already lost more than half my HP doing the out front spotting and yet I had been able to made it to the end and finish a victory when almost all these camper with more HP than me end up dead in the last half or even the first half .. I mean camping is OK if you know how to , but most of them just don't

Plenty of times me and my crazy leander just barely survive doing crazy stuff and top the leader board near 2k while the campers languish in the pits. (MWHAHAHAAH!)

5 hours ago, PeterMoe1963 said:

Cruisers with shorter gun range and high-ish arcs can use island cover effectively and preserve health during the first waves. During the final wave, this gets more and more difficult. You have to just keep maneuvering and be smart what ships you remove first. Smoke could help here, but it is rare that ships with smoke think of the team.

Ops is a good place to practice WASD HAX!

What we need to do is 5 social wolves on this op to demonstrate that 5 good ships is better than 7.

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Some 5 star wins from today:

shot-19_06.07_19_11.17-0570.thumb.jpg.a7cf8d89443c0357541cf6ad8ddc5782.jpg

Dunkerque shows the strength of the French BBs in this Op by working the flanks and not being afraid to take hits. Who says the French are cowards? :Smile_izmena:

And now a tale of two Russian BBs.

shot-19_06.07_19_12.01-0540.thumb.jpg.f66663fb204fc7032128eaf697218df7.jpg

Russian BBs are great if you can get up close and personal with them as #1 showed. #7 thought he was a shore battery but he had a rude awakening in the 2nd half courtesy of some torps.

6 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

This is an example of a sad team when the CV carries the game. And carry by a mile. Been there Furiously before. Your #2 and #3 died because #4 and #5 were not tanking doing their job. #6 died because he went out and tried to do his job but in the end fell to the barrage? #7 was either unlucky or he doesn't know how to Molotov. 

Next time I op, care to join?

Yup that was precisely what happened. #6 died trying to do his job and and #2 and #3 died around the same time or shortly after. I think #7 did not expect the first wave to carry torps lol.

Sure thing, just hit me up an invite.

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