Japanese Tech Tree Suggestion

[S0und_Theif]

Hi WG Dev team,

Good day to you all, I would like to propose light cruiser branch and bug guns battleship branch lines for the Japan tech tree.
Due to limited resources, this are the only ships I can find.

Please have a look and consider this suggestion.

Light Cruisers

T5 Agano

Armament
6 - 152 mm (6 in)/50 guns (3 × 2)
4 - 80 mm (3 in)/60 guns (2 × 2)
6 - 25 mm (0.98 in)/60 AA guns (2 × 3)
4 - 13 mm (0.53 in) AA guns (2 × 2)
8 - 610 mm torpedo tubes (2 × 4)

T6 "Oyodo" type

Armament:
9 - 155 mm (6.1 in)/60 guns (3 x 3)
8 - 127 mm (5 in)/40 guns (4 x 2) or 8 - 100 mm (3.9 in) AA guns (4 x 2)
18 - 25 mm (0.98 in)/60 AA guns (6 x 3)
12 - 610 mm torpedo tubes (4 x 3)

Note: Oyodo only mounted 6 guns. All forward no rear. This version of "Oyodo" is armed with 9 - 155 mm (6.1 in) guns. 2 forward 1 rear.
Note: Oyodo is only a temporary name for the T6 ship. Name will be filled by WG dev team.

T7 "Tone" (Pre- modernization)

Armament:
15 - 155 mm (6.1 in)/60 guns (5 x 3)
8 - 127 mm (5 in)/40 guns (4 x 2) or 8 - 100 mm (3.9 in) AA guns (4 x 2)
12 - 25 mm (0.98 in)/60 AA guns (6 x 2)
12 - 610 mm torpedo tubes (4 x 3)

Note: Tone and Chikuma were suppose to be the 5th and 6th ship of the Mogami class respectively.
Note: This version of "Tone" is her pre-alteration version.
Note: Armed with 15 - 155 mm (6.1 in)/60 guns, she is the Helena version of the Japanese Navy
Note: Tone is only a temporary name for the T7 ship. Name will be filled by WG dev team.

Here ends the light cruiser line for the Japanese Navy. After light cruiser T7 "Tone", The light cruiser line will end and will merge together with T8 Mogami. As Mogami can be armed with both 155 mm (6.1 in) guns and 203 mm (8 in) guns.
Just like the French and Italian Tech Tree I earlier suggested. (See French Tech Tree Suggestiona and Italian Tech Tree Suggestion)

 

Big Guns Battleships

T8 Tosa

Armament:
10 - 410 mm (16.1 in)/45 guns (5 x 2)
20 - 140 mm (5.5 in)/50 guns (20 x 1)
4 - 80 mm (3 in)/60 AA guns (4 x 1)

Note: Tosa is the battleship version of Amagi.
Note: Tosa's thickest belt armor is 280 mm (11 in). Amagi's thickest belt armor is 250 mm (9.8 in)
Note: Tosa's speed is 26 knots (same as Nagato). Amagi's speed is 30 knots.
Note: Her sister, Kaga, is a T8 Aircraft Carrier. I would not be surprised to see Akagi, Amagi's sister, would also be a T8 carrier.

T9 Ishikari "Number 13"

Armament:
8 - 457 mm (18 in)/45 guns
16 - 140 mm (5.5 in)/50 guns
8 - 120 mm AA guns (8 x 1)

Note: Her guns are not Yamato guns. Her guns were of 1920's. Planned guns but no example was made.
Note: Second encounter of Japanese 457 mm (18 in) guns at T9. The first is Musashi which has a slightly bigger caliber/calibre guns 460 mm (16.1 in).
Note: Her desing is based on the 1920's though, but that wont stop WG to visualize a theoretical modernization for her. Like the French Lyon and German P.E. Friedrich.

T10 Kai "A-150 (480 mm version)"

Armament:
6 - 480 mm (18.9 in)/45 guns (3 x 2)
6 - 155 mm (6.1 in)/60 guns (2 x 3)
24 - 127 mm (5 in)/40 guns (12 x 2)
162 - 25 mm (1 in) AA guns (54 x 3)
?? - 13.2 mm (0.52 in) machine guns

Note: LIke the Nebraska (See US Tech Tree Suggestion), She is a Yamato but with fewer and bigger guns. This is to save time and cost for constructing new ships.
Note: The original A-150 is armed with 510 mm (20.1 in) guns. Such monsterous guns would have a long reach and high damage for a T8 to T10 battle. Guns Beyond 481 mm should be considered as T11 (if there is such tier).

 

I know some of the suggested ships may not make it as WG will put other ships that were not available in the books or internet, but I am sure they are working on to complete the French tech tree.

I would like to also give a thanks to the developer and researcher of the Soviet Battleship Anton Kurchatkin (I hope I got it correctly). Really appreciate his research on Soviet warships with limited resource. He could have the resourse to further expand Japanese tech tree. I wish he would look into my other tech tree suggestions though.

And here ends the suggestions details. Please let me know if I have missed any ship details in the suggestion list. Or if you feel that some ships are not in the right tier, please let me know.
And please WG, please consider this request. Thank you

[S0und_Theif]

Update:

Just a quick update. Will write full detail if time permits. Will also update visual tech tree if time permits.

 

Battleship:

T3 = (A-30) Kawachi (6 x 2 - 305 mm / 45)

T4 = (A-56) Fuso Preliminary (5 x 2 - 305 mm / 45)

T5 = (A-50) Fuso Preliminary (5 x 2 - 356 mm / 45)

T6 = (A-64) Fuso (6 x 2 - 356 mm / 45)

T7 = (A-114) Nagato (4 x 2 - 410 mm / 45)

T8 = (A-127) Tosa (5 x 2 - 410 mm / 45)

* T9 = (A-140J0 - J2) Izumo (3 x 3 - 410 mm / 50)

T9 = (A-140I) Yamato Preliminary (2 x 3 & 2 x 2 - 410 mm / 50)

T10 = (A-140F) Yamato (3 x 3 - 460 / 45 mm)

 

Battlecruiser:

* T4 = (B-40) Myogi (3 x 2 - 356 mm / 45)

T5 = (B-46) Kongou (4 x 2 - 356 mm / 45)

T6 = (B-60) Amagi Preliminary (4 x 2 - 356 mm / 45)

T7 = (B-62) Amagi Preliminary (4 x 2 - 410 mm / 45)

T8 = (B-64) Amagi (5 x 2 - 410 mm / 45)

T9 = Number 13 Design K (4 x 2 -  460 mm / 50)

T10 = Number 13 Design M (4 x 3 - 460 mm / 50)
or
T10 = Number 13 Design L (5 x 2 - 460 mm / 50)

 

 

* Move as premium.

Myogi is a Kongou preliminary. She is a battlecruiser and not a battleship.

Izumo, due to playstyle.

 

Foot Note:
IJN was capable of building 3 gun turret - 356 mm / 45 guns. Probably premium ship

[S0und_Theif]

Update:

Just a quick update. Will write full detail if time permits. Will also update visual tech tree if time permits.

 

Light Cruiser:

T2 = (C-18) Chikuma (4 x 1 - 152 mm)

T3 = (C-26) Tenryu (4 x 1 - 140 mm)

T4 = (C-33) Kuma (7 x 1 - 140 mm)

T5 = (C-41) Agano (3 x 2 - 152 mm)

T6 = (C-44) Agano - Kai (4 x 2 - 152 mm)

**T7 = (C-42) Myoko Preliminary Modified (4 x 3 - 155 mm)

T8 = (C-37) Mogami (5 x 3 - 155 mm)

T9 = (C-46) Ibuki CL (5 x 3 - 155 mm)

T10 = ????

 

Heavy Cruiser

T5 = (C-??) Furutaka (3 x 2 - 203 mm) or (C-??) Aoba (3 x 2 - 203 mm)

T6 = (C-??) Aoba (3 x 2 - 203 mm) or (C-42) Myoko Preliminary (4 x 2 - 203 mm)

T7 = (C-??) Myoko (5 x 2 - 203 mm)

T8 = (C-37) Suzuya (5 x 2 - 203 mm)

T9 = (C-46) Ibuki CA (5 x 2 - 203 mm)

T10 = (C-??) Zao (4 x 3 - 203 mm)

 

Large Cruiser

T8 = ???? (4 x 2 - 310 mm or 3 x 2 - 310 mm)

T9 = (B-65) Yoshino (3 x 3 - 310 mm)

T10 = (V-16) Yashima (3 x 2 - 360 mm)

 

** Myoko Preliminary (4 x 2 - 203 mm), but modified to accept (4 x 3 - 155 mm)

[S0und_Theif]

Update:

Just a quick update. Will write full detail if time permits. Will also update visual tech tree if time permits.

 

Starter Destroyer Line (With Smoke)

T2 = (F-9) Umikaze (2 x 1 - 120 mm, 2 x 2 - 457 mm)

T3 = (F-37) Wakatake (3 x 1 - 120 mm, 2 x 2 - 533 mm)

T4 = (F-24) Isokaze (4 x 1 - 120 mm, 3 x 2 - 533 mm)

 

Destroyer Line A (3 set Torpedo Tubes. With Smoke. No TRB.)

T5 = (F-41A) Minekaze (4 x 1 - 120 mm, 3 x 2 - 533 mm)

T6 = (F-43) Fubuki (2 x 2 - 127 mm, 3 x 3 - 610 mm)

T7 = (F-43) Ayanami (3 x 2 - 127 mm, 3 x 3 - 610 mm)

T8 = (F-43) Akatsuki (3 x 2 - 127 mm, 3 x 3 - 610 mm)

T9 = (F-52) Shimakaze (3 x 2 - 127 mm, 3 x 5 - 610 mm)

T10 = (V-6) Super Shimakaze (3 x 2 - 127 mm, 3 x 5 - 610 mm)

or

T9 = (F-??) ???? (3 x 2 - 127 mm, 3 x 4 - 610 mm)

T10  = (F-52) Shimakaze (3 x 2 - 127 mm, 3 x 5 - 610 mm)

 

Destroyer Line B (2 set Torpedo Tube. With Smoke or TRB [TRB starts at T6])

T5 = (F-41E) Mutsuki (4 x 1 - 120 mm, 2 x 3 - 610 mm)

T6 = (F-45A) Hatsuharu (2 x 2 - 127 mm, 2 x 3 - 610 mm)

T7 = (F-45D) Shiratsuyu (2 x 2 & 1 x 1 - 127 mm, 2 x 4 - 610 mm)

T8 = (F-49) Kagero (3 x 2 - 127 mm, 2 x 4 - 610 mm)

T9 = (F-50) Yugumo (3 x 2 - 127 mm, 2 x 4 - 610 mm)

T10 = (F-??) "Hayate" (3 x 2 - 127 mm, 2 x 5 - 610 mm)

 

Destroyer Line C (1 set Torpedo Tube. With Smoke and TRB)

T8 = (F-51) Akizuki (4 x 2 - 100 mm, 1 x 5 - 610 mm)

T9 = (V-7) Kitakaze (4 x 2 - 100 mm, 1 x 6 - 610 mm)

T10 = (?-??) Harugumo (5 x 2 - 100 mm, 1 x 6 - 610 mm)

 

 

[THAI_THIEF]

24 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

T10 = (V-6) Shimakaze - Kai

Super seal I thought

[S0und_Theif]

2 minutes ago, THAI_THIEF said:

Super seal I thought

Not sure if they are the same. Super Shima / Shima Kai.

Also not sure if 4 x 2 or 3 x 2 - 127 mm.

 

Only sure is 3 x 5 - 610 mm topredo.

[Project45_Opytny]

30 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

Destroyer Line D (Destroyer Leader. Large Guns, 2 x 2 or 2 x 3 610 mm Torpedo. Japanese HE. With TRB. No Smoke.)

T8 = Katori (2 x 2 & 2 x 1 - 140 mm)

T9 = Ioshima (3 x 2 - 140 mm)

T10 = Large Destroyer (4 x 2 - 140 mm)

I appreciate all your efforts, but are you serious? Put nationalist sentiments regarding "Ioshima" (a Chinese warship salvaged by the Japanese) aside by no means are Katori-class (officially rated as training cruisers) and Ping Hai-class even distantly related with the concept of "destroyer/flotilla leader".

Ibuki and Zao are already lagging behind their peers at present and shoehorning an "improved 203-Mogami" at T10 doesn't make sense from balance to "technical-developmental equivalence" (in this aspect Zao is already disadvantaged compared to almost all of her peers) in my opinion.

Regarding the Japanese torpedo craft (for example, Akatsuki and Shiratsuyu) the main problem, in my view, is the "twist" of Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu between the "Speical-type" series and the "Type-A" series caused by London Naval Treaty.

The Matsu-class (including the Tachibana subclass) are dedicated escort destroyers (though with considerably more capability in terms of "fleet actions" comparing with American destroyer escorts) and they are slow for fleet destroyers (27kts). Though there exists precedent like the speed buff to Daring.

Regarding Japanese battlecruisers there exists a famous design study from the Hachi-Hachi Fleet period, commonly refered as No. 13, a battlecruiser armed with 8 46cm guns placed in classical AB-XY configuration.

[S0und_Theif]

1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Regarding Japanese battlecruisers there exists a famous design study from the Hachi-Hachi Fleet period, commonly refered as No. 13, a battlecruiser armed with 8 46cm guns placed in classical AB-XY configuration.

Had a hard time classifying it.

But woudn't 8 - 457 mm on T9 be too powerful? Especially the ± 2 MM.

Georgia only has 6.

hmmm.....

 

Update:

18 inch guns ship with 13 inch belt armor, she definitely fits the battlecruier category.

The only gripe is the ±2 MM.

 

1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

I appreciate all your efforts, but are you serious? Put nationalist sentiments regarding "Ioshima" (a Chinese warship salvaged by the Japanese) aside by no means are Katori-class (officially rated as training cruisers) and Ping Hai-class even distantly related with the concept of "destroyer/flotilla leader".

Well China did receive IJN ships as war booties after the war.

Kind of goes both ways. Japan gets China ship during the war, and China gets Japan ship after the war.

For now it's what I can find. Unless there is 140 mm ship that can fill T9 slot. Or rename it to something else.

 

 

Yubari was originally classified as a destroyer when being built. Having the designation as (F) rather than (C). Later re-classified as a light cruiser.

Katori is "somewhat" based on Yubari.

 

1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Ibuki and Zao are already lagging behind their peers at present and shoehorning an "improved 203-Mogami" at T10 doesn't make sense from balance to "technical-developmental equivalence" (in this aspect Zao is already disadvantaged compared to almost all of her peers) in my opinion.

Rushed idea.

Most IJN C's really have no armor anyway. Uptiering them means giving them additional HP pool as compensation.

Plus the game has updated the armor mechanics, so proper compensation for up / down tier will also be applied.

 

Anyways, its not the original plan. It was a last minute change. It's not final.

There is one other idea floating around, but.........

Drop by time-to-time to check if the list is updated.

 

Updated.

 

1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Regarding the Japanese torpedo craft (for example, Akatsuki and Shiratsuyu) the main problem, in my view, is the "twist" of Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu between the "Speical-type" series and the "Type-A" series caused by London Naval Treaty

As a game gimmick, the player can choose either Smoke or TRB.

2 sets of torpedo launcher is powerful. But it's up to the player if they will be passive or aggressive in this branch.

 

1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

The Matsu-class (including the Tachibana subclass) are dedicated escort destroyers (though with considerably more capability in terms of "fleet actions" comparing with American destroyer escorts) and they are slow for fleet destroyers (27kts). Though there exists precedent like the speed buff to Daring.

T5 = (F-47) Otori, T6 = (F-55A) Matsu, T7 = (F-55B) Tachibana are just fillers.

Since they all have only one set of torpedo launchers, they kind of fit the gimmick for both Smoke and TRB.

 

Update:

Alternatively, these 3 can be removed and start the split at T8. If the ships feel like they don't fit in.

[Paladinum]

I have little knowledge of IJN paper designs/design studies so I can only speak of my opinion here.

Also, I think it's better to wait for future lines to be announced to see the possibilities. Like a German panzerschiff/super cruiser line because there are German 305 mm guns in the game. Even though they are schieße.

 

CL/CA:

6x3 155 seems a bit too much/many.

Ibuki can be T8, Mogami 155 goes to CL line (Mogami 203 is prem/Coal), and T9 CA can be filled with some 3x3 design.

Side notes: Some IJN 203 guns can elevate up to 70 degree, like Takao/Atago's main guns. WG may dig up some DP 155 mm gun design and put that to use.

 

DD:

Again, you are splitting up the branch too much. Currently, there are 2 lines of IJN DDs. One torpedo line and a branch of AA/gun DDs. To me, it feels complete.

Other notable ships can and should be added as premiums, like Matsu/Tachibana-class.

Chinese CLs should stay as Pan-Asian ships. Maybe a CR line even.

 

BB:

Like Project 45 said, you skipped Number 13 and Tosa-classes. While Tosa is similar to Kii in many aspects, Number 13 can be the T9 to Yamato. Musashi is a T9 in the game so gun caliber is not a concern. Izumo can lead to one of the A-140 design with the same turret layout, but with 460 mm guns instead of 410.

It's easy for WG to just look at all the A-140 designs and ask "We are allowed to switch 460 with 410, right? Right?"

[S0und_Theif]

52 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

I have little knowledge of IJN paper designs/design studies so I can only speak of my opinion here.

Also, I think it's better to wait for future lines to be announced to see the possibilities. Like a German panzerschiff/super cruiser line because there are German 305 mm guns in the game. Even though they are schieße.

 

52 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

CL/CA:

6x3 155 seems a bit too much/many.

Ibuki can be T8, Mogami 155 goes to CL line (Mogami 203 is prem/Coal), and T9 CA can be filled with some 3x3 design.

Side notes: Some IJN 203 guns can elevate up to 70 degree, like Takao/Atago's main guns. WG may dig up some DP 155 mm gun design and put that to use.

Yeah, 6 x 3 is too much. Scrap that.

For now I will take the earlier advice and wait for the moment.

There are a few updates though.

 

For now some of the ships are fillers. As there is limited info I can find.

T10 CL for now will be blank.

 

52 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

DD:

Again, you are splitting up the branch too much. Currently, there are 2 lines of IJN DDs. One torpedo line and a branch of AA/gun DDs. To me, it feels complete.

Other notable ships can and should be added as premiums, like Matsu/Tachibana-class.

Chinese CLs should stay as Pan-Asian ships. Maybe a CR line even.

hmmm.....

I can give up 3 gunboat DD's. Will update.

 

Sad to see the IJN DL go. Since the T9 is very contraversial / touchy subject.

But then again, the T4 PA DD is an IJN DD, yet no complaints.

Anyways, they're gone for good.

 

52 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

BB:

Like Project 45 said, you skipped Number 13 and Tosa-classes. While Tosa is similar to Kii in many aspects, Number 13 can be the T9 to Yamato. Musashi is a T9 in the game so gun caliber is not a concern. Izumo can lead to one of the A-140 design with the same turret layout, but with 460 mm guns instead of 410.

It's easy for WG to just look at all the A-140 designs and ask "We are allowed to switch 460 with 410, right? Right?"

Tosa is added from the start at T8.

Number 13 was added 2 hours later.

[Paladinum]

1 hour ago, S0und_Theif said:

Sad to see the IJN DL go. Since the T9 is very contraversial / touchy subject.

To me it's more like those ships don't fit in that role, and I think Akizuki-class already has that kind of role - destroyer/AA escorts, and Shimakaze is already kind of DD leader, just not focused on guns.

 

If we're lucky, maybe IJN CL line will be in this year. IF we're lucky 

[S0und_Theif]

7 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

To me it's more like those ships don't fit in that role, and I think Akizuki-class already has that kind of role - destroyer/AA escorts, and Shimakaze is already kind of DD leader, just not focused on guns.

Good points.

 

8 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

If we're lucky, maybe IJN CL line will be in this year. IF we're lucky 

On one hand I want to see the CL split, but on the other hand, I want to see CC split.

As for the timing, that IS a big IF.

 

Cruiser and Destroyer list updated.

[Paladinum]

24 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

On one hand I want to see the CL split, but on the other hand, I want to see CC split.

Either BC or CL is likely to happen. But I feel like WG have a 1 BB line/year quota. There has been no BB line yet this year, so there's that.

[azerhero]

Well..

Since the "hybrid" ships are now not exclusively in the even tier anymore (Kearsarge being a Tier IX),

I kinda thinking of a new Premium ships based on refitted Mogami-class being a new hybrid in the Tier IX, namely Suzuya/Kumano.

I think that was a good REAL ship to add to the game, I'm being sick of paper ships being added to the high tier lately lol.

 

how do you guys think?