I can be a disgusting CV player but i am also a Fletcher main

[Navy_Sensou]

I play CV, I know how it works, so i adapt in my DD and i overcome the situation. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the enemy is the main factor lead to victory since medieval time, and it's still a great deal even now.

So don't give me the excuse of "i hate CVs so i won't learn anything about them". And those people who say "i only play for fun" can stop reading this thread and continue to have meals with full of potatoes. 

DDs are not meant to carry game, they bring advantaged factors.

Imagine the people who play DD don't go for cap and expect 200k damage along with 3 dev strikes every game, then get on the net to rant about CV for sabotaging them. Selfish as hell.

Here is the tips:

0.5 I advise you not to play pure torp boats, they are outdated ships as the meta changed just like GK, Hindenburg, Khaba, Yueyang...Every MOBA, strategy game always has a meta and WOWs meta right now doesn't fit with torp boats. Accept it.

1. Do not push cap in early game, analyse the situation based on mini map first (where is the enemy CV's squadron, where is the radar cruiser's position, is there any DD close by?) then plan an escape route to your AA cruiser. After all is considered, only then can you cap.

2. Turn off your AA. Even me playing a semi-AA DD, i still turn off my AA most of the time. I only use it when i have to defend myself. When consider supporting ally with AA, make sure that you are in a safe-secured position. Your health pool matters than those plane ribbons.

3. Always expect the CV to go after you by the moment you enter a cap, so have your smoke ready for use if you find yourself able to get that cap.

4. When you have to split up with your team, watch the mini map to see where the enemy CV squadron is, if he's busy harassing other ships or on the other flank, you can go.

5. If you are caught by the CV, you can mitigate the damage by maneuvering. For HE bomber, run as far as possible and show broadside. For rocket plane, angle yourself and turn into them if they go for another run.

[Grygus_Triss]

So... Does that mean you should play boats like Shimakaze as a hybrid gun and torp boat? Or just not play Shimakaze? (I haven't played Shima, or any DD for a while, I understand that there have been some buffs to her guns which make her more viable as a hybrid)

I get that the meta will change, and powercreep is a thing, but WG really shouldn't change the meta in a way that certain ships are not viable in ANY configuration.

And yes, every MOBA has a meta. Most game developers continually balance classes so that they are all at least somewhat viable at the same time.

Granted, where some games may have only a dozen classes, WoWs has hundreds of ships, with developers trying to make them all 'different.' I can definably understand the challenges the dev team faces.

 

[Navy_Sensou]

11 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

So... Does that mean you should play boats like Shimakaze as a hybrid gun and torp boat? Or just not play Shimakaze? (I haven't played Shima, or any DD for a while, I understand that there have been some buffs to her guns which make her more viable as a hybrid)

I get that the meta will change, and powercreep is a thing, but WG really shouldn't change the meta in a way that certain ships are not viable in ANY configuration.

And yes, every MOBA has a meta. Most game developers continually balance classes so that they are all at least somewhat viable at the same time.

Granted, where some games may have only a dozen classes, WoWs has hundreds of ships, with developers trying to make them all 'different.' I can definably understand the challenges the dev team faces.

 

Don’t play ships like Shima, question solved

[Grygus_Triss]

1 minute ago, Navy_Sensou said:

Don’t play ships like Shima, question solved

So... WG have created a meta where a whole line of ships, one of the original lines, is useless and non-viable in battle. Interesting...

Guess it sucks to be those players who spent time grinding them.

[Drakon233]

4 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

So... WG have created a meta where a whole line of ships, one of the original lines, is useless and non-viable in battle. Interesting...

Guess it sucks to be those players who spent time grinding them.

lets be honest, the IJN DD line was shit even before the rework, and doublely more so in a CV game, so ...

[Grygus_Triss]

Just now, drakon233 said:

lets be honest, the IJN DD line was shit even before the rework, and doublely more so in a CV game, so ...

...Yeah, it was already powercreeped to near oblivion, and even then I thought the fact was...... interesting.

Maybe one day I'll take my Shima out of port and find out just how bad this new meta is for torp boats.

And one day WG may even buff it by giving it surface to air missiles.

But for now, Alsace.

[dejiko_nyo]

32 minutes ago, drakon233 said:

lets be honest, the IJN DD line was shit even before the rework, and doublely more so in a CV game, so ...

Yes. The only thing IJN torpedo DDs had going for them were the sorta useful torpedoes. Which were nerf to oblivion with increased spotting, reduced speed. And let's not forget the removal of TRB with smoke. Wait, I just described their un-usefulness.

Their terrible abysmal turret traverse didn't and do not help. Together with the poor RoF. And a concealment that some other dds can rival. God, I just described why IJN torpedo dds are terrible didn't I...

29 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

And one day WG may even buff it by giving it surface to air missiles.

I'd wish.

[legionary2099]

I wish my CV carry B-25 and Daisy Cutters. 

[_Blink_Blackwolf]

3 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

I wish my CV carry B-25 and Daisy Cutters. 

I wish my Hak had Jet planes

[legionary2099]

1 minute ago, _TAMAL_ said:

I wish my Hak had Jet planes

It had them , until WG decide that pilots are drunkards and jets are too fast for them ....

[dejiko_nyo]

1 minute ago, _TAMAL_ said:

I wish my Hak had Jet planes

I wish my Hak had a tactical nuke.

[_Blink_Blackwolf]

2 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

I wish my Hak had a tactical nuke.

Only way to spread balance...

[legionary2099]

4 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

I wish my Hak had a tactical nuke.

@drakon233 like this.

[88mmPotatoCannon]

20 hours ago, Navy_Sensou said:

So don't give me the excuse of "i hate CVs so i won't learn anything about them".

 

This isn't the point.  It is so far from the point...

Much the same as I think people who main CVs in the current game have the morals of an armed methhead in a kindergarten, DELETED.  If one of these (probably diseased) baboon blowers says "why don't you try it, so you know how to avoid it?"... then no.  Of course I am not going to try it, for what they just said is complete nonsense.   

Insults and sexual reference, post edited.

[Navy_Sensou]

11 minutes ago, 88mmPotatoCannon said:

This isn't the point.  It is so far from the point...

Much the same as I think people who main CVs in the current game have the morals of an armed methhead in a kindergarten, I also think that people who perform oral sex on baboons of questionable hygiene are wrong to do so.  If one of these (probably diseased) baboon blowers says "why don't you try it, so you know how to avoid it?"... then no.  Of course I am not going to try it, for what they just said is complete nonsense.   

Uhhh? You can watch some vids dummy

[88mmPotatoCannon]

Just now, Navy_Sensou said:

Uhhh? You can watch some vids dummy

Yep.  I watch vids.

What I won't do is play CVs.

[_Blink_Blackwolf]

1 hour ago, 88mmPotatoCannon said:

What I won't do is play CVs.

Well, that atleast explains your "Baboon Theory"...

[Vikala]

You can only survive because CV allow you to do so.
I have seen your record and none of enemy CV player is really impressive, look at the plane you shoot down mean he didn't focus on you and let you do your things (the only match you shoot down 47 planes is from a Kaga and I'm sure he didn't know what he was doing). And you even have a CV guy (and sometime an AA guy) to cover you, make you move become a lot easier. 

In this game, you can not always depend on your team, what if your flank isn't have anyone with great AA? You should run from A to C just to be "safe"? Its not like only CV can expose your position, CV are not the only threat you faced neither. And what is the point of playing gun and AA DD if you turn off it 90% duration of the game? 

You can watch this one, not mine, but a DD who tried to carried himself. The team could have lost a lot sooner if he hadn't make his move., and CV [content deleted] him hard just because hes trying to do what needed to be done.  What will you do in his situation? Just running away along with your team and accept this defeat because DD "are not meant to carry the game"? Accept that CV should be the one who control the tide and you are notthing but a supporter to him? What is the different of it compare to the old RTS meta then? 

Sorry for broken English anw, hope its enough for you to understand. 

 
Profanity, content edited

[Navy_Sensou]

1 hour ago, Arnice said:

You can only survive because CV allow you to do so.
I have seen your record and none of enemy CV player is really impressive, look at the plane you shoot down mean he didn't focus on you and let you do your things (the only match you shoot down 47 planes is from a Kaga and I'm sure he didn't know what he was doing). And you even have a CV guy (and sometime an AA guy) to cover you, make you move become a lot easier. 

In this game, you can not always depend on your team, what if your flank isn't have anyone with great AA? You should run from A to C just to be "safe"? Its not like only CV can expose your position, CV are not the only threat you faced neither. And what is the point of playing gun and AA DD if you turn off it 90% duration of the game? 

You can watch this one, not mine, but a DD who tried to carried himself. The team could have lost a lot sooner if he hadn't make his move., and CV fvck him hard just because hes trying to do what needed to be done.  What will you do in his situation? Just running away along with your team and accept this defeat because DD "are not meant to carry the game"? Accept that CV should be the one who control the tide and you are notthing but a supporter to him? What is the different of it compare to the old RTS meta then? 

Sorry for broken English anw, hope its enough for you to understand. 

 
 

you want impressive CV rival? here you go

If the team is losing, then it's their fault.

I would also try to cap, try to do damage. But if the team is losing, i'm losing too.

Tell me, how can you carry a game where the enemy is on advantage with more number of ships survive? How can you fight 1vs1 even a Cleveland that is 2 tier lower? You shoot them with your tiny weak guns? Torp them and get multiple dev strikes? Unless the enemies are captain stright-line or potato eater, i don't think so.

And yes, it isn't different from the RTS, DDs are just support ships. They cap and create an opportunity to bring down enemy ships. Playing DD means that you are already dependent on your team. You get dev strike only if you are lucky(even with skills involved) with your prediction or the enemy is stupid. Dodging torp is way easier than dodging shells.

[Navy_Sensou]

1 hour ago, Arnice said:

 
 

https://replayswows.com/replay/25879#video

This replay right here shows that i “carried” a game in my Fletcher but not by the mean of destroying all enemy ships, despite the fact that i did 244k damage there. It's just impossible if the enemies are well-awared players.

I was just lucky to have the point favored my side, or else i would have been running in a lost game.

Yep, that's what i do, running.

[Vikala]

The point is CV limited too many of your abilities. If you are out-numbered, you can still do something to turn the tide. But the CV existence throw your chance out of the window. CV won't let you heal after a touch fight, expose your position and make enemy notice your existence. Its not like they can predict exactly where you are without RPF and you can still do some unpredicted torpedoes salvos. It maybe stupid in praying that enemy will be potato and sail into your torps, but its better than got harassed until die, losing isn't fun and CV make it even worse. Of course if enemy has like 4 5 more ships than your team has, it will be a defeat and you can do notthing about it. But what if they only has 1 or 2 ship advantage? Still be able to turn it around right? No one can call himself a good player if he give up in that situation. 

And about you record, that CV guy isn't impressive enough. I have seen too many CV player who reach top 1 of the scoreboard recent days with a huge xp gap between him and the second one.  You can be a good player who can supress CV sometimes but we re talking about balance. Its simply isn't fair and DD become the most unfriendly class with people.  


 

[PGM991]

playing shimakaze in current meta is tough

meta where you can be spotted out of nowhere. plane just happen to fly pass over, radar from behind island.

the second shima being spotted, every enemy in vicinity start to assume that 'there must be torpedo some where' and start moving for intercept

that make shima torpedo very very very hard to hit anything,

 

as the same time, when people spot gearing or any other DD, their alertness for torpedo is much lesser then when they spot IJNDD, thus they fall for gearing and other torpedo more often.

 

those 1.7 spotting range for balance with high damage is irreverent IMO

in fact because of matter I said above, IJNDD torpedo line should have less spotting range than any line in game to be balanced.

 

 

WG adjust balance base on numerical alone, never considered player mindset.

[Mechfori]

5 hours ago, drakon233 said:

lets be honest, the IJN DD line was shit even before the rework, and doublely more so in a CV game, so ...

well they were not , they become irrelevant when people start complaining they cannot handle torp ( big guns ), so WG nerf that ( Kagero used to be ale to had 12KM torp ), then people complain about smoke, and that got nerfed ( and also firing from smoke), then they complain not seeing the DD, so come Hydro, then Radar, more Radar, longer Radar reach and longer Radar duration, and of course now CV ... and all along when everyone got buffed here and there , DD got nothing , especially torp boats ...

As a DD main, I do agree with your set post , but here that does not take away my previous saying, that effectively mean DD are forced to play at range that they cannot utilize their one most powerful weapon and their most cherished feature, Torp, and Stealth , and then their smoke are now reserved for survival need, and their speed and maneuverability is again taken away per say .. and yes planes can be dodged , but even that is  only situational, especially when you are also most likely faced with surface fire at the same time ..

So in the end, DD still are forced to ( if they want to survive at all ) to stick with the team at the back ... just as the other thread goes, their role totally taken and irrelevant ... what you are saying in the OP is all correct but all it does is keeping the DD alive, not actually giving the DD back a game and a game play .. and saying the game practically obsolete a whole (sub-)line of ship meas the game is broke. And there's still no mention of ineffective, inconsistent,and at time pretty much non existent AA ( guess what some T3, T4, T5 DD feel like when that T4 CV decide a DD is a juicy target ) .. I play Fletcher too, I know how it can be used in a CV or even 2 CV game meta, but picture this even AA strong Akizuki had issue and not to say many a CL ( which obviously had a much larger surface print, and do not have the speed and the flexibility to dance )

But DD as WG means it ( still say so today ) as to be out doing Scouting , Spotting ( both irrelevant ), ambush and use stealth ( what stealth today if you are to get into torp range , Hydro, Radar, Plane ... hmmmm ...). , and using its speed and maneuvering to extract itself ( you cannot extract yourself from an aerial attack and they do not just come in single run but each and every squadron had several and then the next squadron come in )  ... so if such as such is so .. in a game .. when a group of players are unjustifiably penalized for just so because they play a certain kind of ships ( or characters ), that is simply what one would say unfair .. and that is what really drive many DD , CL and even some CA players crying foul ; and now tell us how any DD Player are suppose to made even their economy work when all their task and capability effectively neutralized , and sorry support duties ,  hmm .... first of all support duties do not reward, it penalize .. and also anything the DD are now too concerned with its own survival .. support, what support .. not seeing the Big guns do it, not seeing the CV do it, not seeing the CA do it, and not even the CL .. they farm damage cause they can and they can tank it when CV rain in the bombs torp and rockets, they can sit at the back and still do something .. not DD .. so in the end when such as such presented to DD players, can they not complain about it, though I do say while CV ( or rather CV rework and that game mechanics ) only partly constitute the blame , its not totally innocent

As before ; I do think the CV rework do made the CV more accessible ; that WG had succeed in doing, but they had in the process ruin almost everybody else , and especially that of the DD(s) ... . I do not blame the big guns or the CA or the CL or even the CV just out farming damage and never bother to team work , PUSH, and support the light force ... the game mechanic pretty much penalize people who do and reward those who don't .. In the end I do blame WG for making a whole line of ships unable to perform and unable to perform with like ability to be rewarded as others do ... both in credit / EXP earning and tactical task , and even worse when we talk strategic one ( DD go cap A .. you mean you want me to go suicide ) ... We know it can be fixed but WG will not do it because that mean giving the surface ship real effective , available, consistent AA and not just by sheer quantity of ships around , and that would infuriate CV gang , give them ranging and stealth so they can actually stealth and sail out to do their part but then this will infuriate the big guns. The current meta is that WG is pleasing a certain population of the gaming population ( specifically Big Guns and now CV .. talk to Atlanta players about AA hmmm ...)  at the cost of putting everyone else as cake on a plate to the alter and no one like to be the one sacrificed ...

Instead of telling us how a DD can survive, now someone, some ONE, tell me how one can in this meta make a DD work, perform, able to excel,  as in its role , fulfill its tasks, within its capabilities, overcome its limitation thus imposed and yes still come out living and got those credit / exp  , oh yes especially on a torp  boat and not just top tiers, but DD of all tiers and of all nations ... no ... hmmm ... or .... ????????

 

guess what and why some game play is considered an in-balance now

[sunlo2013]

Some people still have that mentality of CV main against the people, every single CV thread is like putting CV on trial. Today we even saw someone using moral high ground the judge people who play CV, probably he is making fun or kidding, but his metaphor is just not very good in my opinion.

People should allow to play what ever they feel like to play in a game. There are not moral judgement. Playing OP ships like Belfast, Jean Bart etc, should not be seen as immoral, so as people who like to play CV.

I think the point of this thread is just showing that people who play CV will also play surface ship. 

OP is a competent surface ship player even before he became top CV player. In fact, experience from other ship class is mutually beneficial when it comes to playing new fps CV or playing against CV.

As for my own experience, I still play way more surface ships than playing CV. So, definitely not calling myself CV main. I found both surface ship and CV are fun and reasonably balanced. 

Enemies CV may make you feel oppressed, but CV game also provides you with enormous amounts of information. Good team and good players usually are the one who can better use those informations to their advantage.

[Thyaliad]

So if I do well in a DD it means either the CV is noob or they decide to let me live for some strange reason.

Ok...

The enemy CV obviously isn't a noob, so I guess he was in a rather merciful mood that match.

40 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

Instead of telling us how a DD can survive, now someone, some ONE, tell me how one can in this meta make a DD work, perform, able to excel,  as in its role , fulfill its tasks, within its capabilities, overcome its limitation thus imposed and yes still come out living and got those credit / exp  , oh yes especially on a torp  boat ... no ... hmmm ... or .... ????????

Read the first post in this thread.

Also watch this guy: