Uptier

[AxEyBoI]

How many games do you have to play  to get -2 on the tiers ? . Decided to take out the T7 Fiji for a cruise & what do you know, end up up tiered in 5 games i was once the middle and other 4 game T9 ships.

[Bex_o7]

Tier 7 is the new tier 5

[AxEyBoI]

So it went 4 games +2, 1 game at 0 and the next 3 games +2, then a game at -2 tiered. 8 games before it was down tiered -2.

[spixys]

someone: "Once is too many."

[dejiko_nyo]

I believe somewhere deep in the depths of the forums or the internets, wg made mm so that if you get uptiered frequently, "roughky every 4th game you will be top tier". Don't quote me on this. I just vaguely remembered seeing it somewhere. This is to "prevent you from rage quiting the game permanently" IMHO.

FYI, the reason you get uptiered is because of to quote wg: "waiting times" which they place more importance over rather than more balanced teams.

[Paladinum]

14 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

FYI, the reason you get uptiered is because of to quote wg: "waiting times" which they place more importance over rather than more balanced teams.

I believe that while many players' responses to the reworked CVs is an overreaction, the uptiering MM is not and needs to get fixed.

1.The power gap between T8 and T10 ships can be massive. Try Bismarck vs Montana/Yamato. You're gonna get smashed into a wreck. Same goes to T5 vs T7, T6 vs T8 and T7 vs T9.
2. IIRC WG said that the rewards are better for low-tier ships against higher-tier ships, but if you can't survive or can't even damage them, moot point.
3. Waiting time has never been such an issue as they put it like that, unless it's the times when a new line (esp. BBs) or times where there are so few players online.
4. The largest number of ships are indeed of Tiers 8-9-10, so putting JUST T9 and 10 or T8 and T9 in matches will not be an issue.
5. WG want to make CVs popular again. Let put T6 and T8 CVs against AA ships in T8 and T10. That will go so well.

[Grygus_Triss]

44 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

FYI, the reason you get uptiered is because of to quote wg: "waiting times" which they place more importance over rather than more balanced teams.

So, its more important to be playing a battle in which you are severly handicapped and can barely do anything of meaning (especially if ship is stock), than it is to be in a battle where you actually stand a chance?

Or is this another one of those "git gud" things.

17 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

3. Waiting time has never been such an issue as they put it like that, unless it's the times when a new line (esp. BBs) or times where there are so few players online.

I don't play on other servers, but I wonder if they have similar issues, if maybe if waiting time IS a problem there. In which case WG implements MM rules which work on other servers, but dooms Asia because of different populations of something.

But what would I know, don't play other servers.

[Gummiheng]

Now now now

If they would change to a +/-1 matchmaking, It would be much more "balanced"

More time to wait but i think is more worth waiting than the current MM

I know this idea is already up somewhere long time :3

[Paladinum]

14 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Or is this another one of those "git gud" things.

It's their favorite argument. The thing is, this isn't Dark Souls. This isn't even an offline single-player game where you get no help whatsoever.

[legionary2099]

8 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

It's their favorite argument. The thing is, this isn't Dark Souls. This isn't even an offline single-player game where you get no help whatsoever.

Hey , even Dork Souls have the infamous trollo death cam where you get to see how other die a spectacular death lmao.

You get the help you need with all the kneejerk kill cam they give you lol.

[dejiko_nyo]

1 hour ago, Paladinum said:

I believe that while many players' responses to the reworked CVs is an overreaction, the uptiering MM is not and needs to get fixed.

1.The power gap between T8 and T10 ships can be massive. Try Bismarck vs Montana/Yamato. You're gonna get smashed into a wreck. Same goes to T5 vs T7, T6 vs T8 and T7 vs T9.
2. IIRC WG said that the rewards are better for low-tier ships against higher-tier ships, but if you can't survive or can't even damage them, moot point.
3. Waiting time has never been such an issue as they put it like that, unless it's the times when a new line (esp. BBs) or times where there are so few players online.
4. The largest number of ships are indeed of Tiers 8-9-10, so putting JUST T9 and 10 or T8 and T9 in matches will not be an issue.
5. WG want to make CVs popular again. Let put T6 and T8 CVs against AA ships in T8 and T10. That will go so well.

My sentiments exactly. I've been bitching/commenting/dissecting/analysing/whatever this repeatedly on our discord chan and the general consensus it that it is a relic of a bygone era.

BTW, this screenshot straight from the wows devblog facebook, from a thread dated May 8th 2019:

Straight from the dev's mouth that "it isn't feasible because of queue times". I call it laziness to fix matchmaker which is definately broken or more like it needs a serious update to cope with the current situation. They already have soft caps for the numbers of dd/bb/ca or whatever after 3 minutes. So why can't they do a simple thing like that for tiers? I say, stop wasting your resourcing on unnecessary things like "cv rework" and put more effort into fixing a core component of your game. To me MM is very much a critical core component. Without MM, you cannot play. Without BB, you still can play. Without CA, you still can play. Without DD, you still can play.

1 hour ago, Grygus_Triss said:

So, its more important to be playing a battle in which you are severly handicapped and can barely do anything of meaning (especially if ship is stock), than it is to be in a battle where you actually stand a chance?

See soft limit suggestion above. Apparently a lone t8 ship getting battered by a fleet of T9/10s is "standing a chance" to them.

1 hour ago, Gummilicious said:

More time to wait but i think is more worth waiting than the current MM

I know this idea is already up somewhere long time :3

I think every once in a while it does get mentioned but the standard response is in that quote.

-New paragraph for change in topic-

Yes, occasionally a T8 can perform in uptiered battles, when this happens, to me it is the T9/10s that are underperforming.

[Moggytwo]

T7 used to be the best tier for MM, but the changes to T10 CV MM have made T8 MM significantly better.  The unfortunate repercussion of this is that as T8 MM improves, T7 MM gets correspondingly worse.

The thing about MM is you what you give to one tier, you have to take from another.  Be careful what you wish for.

[Rina_Pon]

After a brief respite, T8 is back to being the worst tier again. There's a ton of T10 ships in the queue, and on top of that there's a strong likelyhood of having to face two T10 CVs.

Worst, or hardest, or most challenging, or least enjoyable. Take your pick. Since with CVs there no effective concealment and just about every ship on the enemy team can nuke you at ranges you can't even touch them at, you may as well just chill in spawn for 10 minutes until the T10 ships get close enough to each other that you can hit the enemy team while still staying safely behind the battle lines.

 

[LtDan_IceCream]

3 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

wg made mm so that if you get uptiered frequently, "roughky every 4th game you will be top tier". Don't quote me on this.

[Rina_Pon]

24 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

 The unfortunate repercussion of this is that as T8 MM improves, T7 MM gets correspondingly worse.

That's not unfortunate, as long as it's balanced. T7 should see a mix of T7,8 and 9 battles. T8 should see T8,9 and 10. As long as the mix is roughly 1:1:1 no one has any right to complain.

The problem, and we've been here before, before the rework, is that without CB or ranked ongoing there are too many T10 ships in the random MM queue. The solution, which was supposed to have already been implemented, is to sandbox the T10 ships in their own all T10 matches, and make it not possible to have more than x T10 ships in a T8-10 battle. An additional condition post rework is to not allow 4 T10 CVs into a T8-10 battle, but restrict than configuration to T10 only.

That said ... deep breath ... playing as the only T8 is a T10 game is not the end of the world. You have to be cautious, and careful, and patient, but there are useful roles for your ship nonetheless.

[Paladinum]

15 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Straight from the dev's mouth that "it isn't feasible because of queue times". I call it laziness to fix matchmaker which is definately broken or more like it needs a serious update to cope with the current situation. They already have soft caps for the numbers of dd/bb/ca or whatever after 3 minutes. So why can't they do a simple thing like that for tiers? I say, stop wasting your resourcing on unnecessary things like "cv rework" and put more effort into fixing a core component of your game. To me MM is very much a critical core component. Without MM, you cannot play. Without BB, you still can play. Without CA, you still can play. Without DD, you still can play.

Meanwhile there are more players playing T9-10 ships than any other tier in the game. Yeah, not feasible.

[dejiko_nyo]

2 hours ago, Paladinum said:

Meanwhile there are more players playing T9-10 ships than any other tier in the game. Yeah, not feasible.

Like I said, more like laziness in not wanting to fix a 3? 4? year old problem.

 

2 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

That said ... deep breath ... playing as the only T8 is a T10 game is not the end of the world. You have to be cautious, and careful, and patient, but there are useful roles for your ship nonetheless.

And on somedays, I don't want to be the T8 that is doing all the work outplaying all my T9/10 team. Yes. Outplay MY own team, not the opposition.

Addendum:
Maybe in the ancient past it would have made sense for T9/10 matchmaking for +/-2, but with a significant portion of the population owning T9/10s, how difficult is it to fill up the team? If you can't fill it up, then let it be. 5 a side then so be it. Note that some of the larger maps still are playable with 7 v 7. The way I see it, the excuses given are pretty weak.

Addendum #2:
I know someone is going to post a 2v2 match. Please, I welcome it.

[Paladinum]

14 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

I know someone is going to post a 2v2 match. Please, I welcome it.

Incoming "T1 ships vs Yamato" screenshots from Open Beta