T4 Carriers

[_S_H_I_N_I_G_A_M_I_]

Is it just me, or T4 CVs are kind of bad? Here's why I think they're bad. Take note however, I only played Co-op on a T4 Hōshō and Hermes after the rework. I gave the T6 Furious a few tries on random tho (which I didn't enjoy).
First as a CV player:
Before I can sit on somewhere behind, and do fine, now ofc I have to get closer to the fight to lessen flight time. I'm cool with that. The problem is, even with those, I find that it takes a lot of work just moving my planes from point A to B. Furious can do that without boring me to death. Now let's move on to the AA. Being uptiered sucks (noticed the same on T6 vs T8). T4 ships can do fine against T5, but in terms of plane vs AA, they just melt. Yes, I know we should weave through AA fire, but sometimes, even the continuous one melts the paper planes. Lastly, the rewards for the efforts are meh. If I managed to live through the AA, I do mediocre damage, and that is IF I don't miss lol. I found rocket planes hard to use against DD as even bots dodge easily. Then the issue of 3 runs for 3 torps which barely flood anything in my experience. All in all, I dislike them. Note that this isn't an issue of "If I don't like it, why not FXP it?"

As a non-CV player (On Randoms):
First I hate how I have to deal with CVs on T3 where my AA is next to firing imaginary guns. I hardly shot down even a single plane with sector reinforcement. And I even went with my team to increase AA bubble, yet the planes remind me of pterodactyls that just swoop down on helpless prey. Can't really do anything aside from trying to turn. But often, I emerged undamaged. (Idk if I'm just good at dodging or they just suck at using CVs.) It's funny to watch it from this side when they dive only to miss completely. And to me the planes are more of an annoyance, rather than real threats. Though, if the CV player is good (or a seal clubber), what good will our AA do? Nothing much really. And the game ends up being a damage race/contest of which team has the better CV player just like before the rework. Oh don't get me started on the 2 CV per team thing, because that's just bad. Makes me imagine being plagued by mosquitoes.

What do you guys think of the T4 CVs?

[RalphTheTheatreCat]

Short version.  They are trash.

[AntifoulAwl]

They are tier 4.

*folds arms*

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

If the low tier CVs were good, some experienced players would keep them for sealclubbing purpose like AS (Air Supremacy) Bogue. That thing could disarm normal Bogue with ease. And because AS also increased the number of dive bombers in squadron, they dealt more damage than those that did not have it.

[Mechfori]

not really powerful they are but try to talk tat into those playing the slow and sluggish T3/T4 BB and even cruisers .. not to mention many with practically no AA at all, they might not be doing much single hit damage but all add up and there's really no counter to its spotting

[_S_H_I_N_I_G_A_M_I_]

3 hours ago, Sir_Feather said:

If the low tier CVs were good, some experienced players would keep them for sealclubbing purpose like AS (Air Supremacy) Bogue. That thing could disarm normal Bogue with ease. And because AS also increased the number of dive bombers in squadron, they dealt more damage than those that did not have it.

Bogue still exists? And AS only quickens restoration time. I was talking of post rework. Seal-clubbing is a diff can of worms altogether. Heck I'd rather play a DD or pretty much any ship with torps if I want to seal-club. So I don't really see how it relates to CV being bad at T4 as other options are clearly viable pre/post-rework.

2 hours ago, Mechfori said:

not really powerful they are but try to talk tat into those playing the slow and sluggish T3/T4 BB and even cruisers

It's quite weird you compare sluggish planes to sluggish boats, if that's  what you're trying to do. Boats can sit on their place after arriving. Planes don't. And they can only hit a few times per run. I agree with you on the AA, they suck when you're downtiered. ← This is the opposite of how I feel when I play a non-CV ship.

4 hours ago, AntifoulAwl said:

They are tier 4. 

*folds arms* 

Hope you can say that to low tier DDs. Because from my experience, it's not that uncommon for me to kill 3-4. And I'm confident to say that I'm not even good at playing DDs.

[_Blink_Blackwolf]

Just free xp them...I didn't even bother trying them

[InterconKW]

Generally speaking, tier 4 CVs to me can  have about the effective damage output of a same tier cruiser like a Phoenix. 

Difference? They're frustrating. You can't constantly move and output damage. You do occasional medium-size chunks throughout the game, and if you so much as make a mistake in any of them you have to wait all over again.

But from an objective standpoint, compared to the RTS days the design of them really isn't bad IMO. In the past, T4/5 carriers still had pretty good map coverage and could be quite influential. It could be rather foreign and punishing for a new carrier player to jump into the mix as he would suffer much harder if he wasn't as skilled. Then he would be thrown into Tier 6 and forced against very punishing matchmaking, or just clubbed without any prior chance to understand alt attacks.

Nowadays, while most players will find the Tier 4 CV skill ceiling to be upsettingly low, they aren't extensively punished for not performing due to lower influence, and there's less incentive for actually good players to club low tiers with carriers. They also get the chance to learn the mechanics of carrier play. Perhaps to a new player they may come across as an eye-opening experience and be redeemed.

In regards to your second point in the few spins I've taken in tier 4 surface ships and not found the carrier to be objectively a bigger opponent than the enemy surface vessels, with many of their attacks being quite dodge-able. 

They aren't badly designed (objectively) so much as unfun but I don't think their current nature is a bad thing for the game.

[Max_Battle]

7 hours ago, AntifoulAwl said:

They are tier 4.

*folds arms*

Gangster.

[Wombat56]

The problem is three of them on a side.

With a slow tier 4 BB with no real AA its just torpedo after torpedo.

Not much damage for each hit but its hit after hit, with luck no flooding or only one. 

Hopefully its some other poor soul that they pick on first.

[_S_H_I_N_I_G_A_M_I_]

1 hour ago, Wombat56 said:

The problem is three of them on a side.

With a slow tier 4 BB with no real AA its just torpedo after torpedo.

Not much damage for each hit but its hit after hit, with luck no flooding or only one. 

Hopefully its some other poor soul that they pick on first.

I hope you brought a mosquito repellant and a swatter.