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Rina_Pon

I have a question ...

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What is the point of being good at a game if being good at the game does not help your team win?

'Cause that's where I am with this now. Playing WoWS just feels pointless, like I'm just there to shoot at stuff and be shot at for 15-20 minutes while someone else rolls a dice to see who wins.

I have a list of grievances. Here we go:

1. There is no WASD counter to air attacks. You can't really dodge torpedo bombers or any other airborne attack anymore, especially not in a battleship. Unless the enemy CV is a noob, they can hit you whenever they want, it's just how many planes they will lose. This is a very static mechanic. No skill is involved on the ship side, just consumables  management.

2. Playing any ship with sub-average AA is pointless. In principle AA ships should provide cover for weaker ships, but in practice no one is going to go out in a random battle trusting that to happen when you can choose to sail a ship with good AA instead. Most of my favorite ships are disadvantaged and unused.

3. Similar to the above. Radar is almost useless, torpedoes on cruisers are almost useless, concealment is almost useless. So few ships are viable now.

4. The highest kills I've got recently in randoms is 4, and that was a killsteal fiesta in Colorado, picking off stragglers since I couldn't get to the front fast enough to have more impact. There is no reward for playing well anymore. Sitting back and shooting at things will work just as well if not better.

5. I've been grinding Bismark. A brawling T8 BB with no deck armor, in predominently T10 MM with 2 enemy CVs. Talk about bashing your head against a brick wall... I all could think of while playing is "why am I even trying to do this?"  

Ugh. I think I'm gonna take a break for a while. Maybe a long while.

 

Edited by Rina_Pon
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No you will not be able to dodge in a BB, hell you are most likely having difficulties dodging even in a DD .. that's what it is .. yes what's been said is all there and no WG is showing no intention to correct and balance the game

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WOWS is just a simple online First Person Shooter game, this type of game is very individual and has very limited control/interaction for team mechanics. Alternative, WOWS could probably go back to its very initial design which one player controls a small fleet with one BB or CV as capital ship.

Edited by tsuenwan

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1 hour ago, tsuenwan said:

WOWS is just a simple online First Person Shooter game, this type of game is very individual and has very limited control/interaction for team mechanics. Alternative, WOWS could probably go back to its very initial design which one player controls a small fleet with one BB or CV as capital ship.

What? What is this lovely design that did not make it through?

Supposedly world of whatever is a "team" game but I fail to see how team play is rewarded. The current xp reward system is biased towards individual performance.

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Your feel ís same with me dude :"<

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10 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

1. There is no WASD counter to air attacks. You can't really dodge torpedo bombers or any other airborne attack anymore, especially not in a battleship. Unless the enemy CV is a noob, they can hit you whenever they want, it's just how many planes they will lose. This is a very static mechanic. No skill is involved on the ship side, just consumables  management.

2. Playing any ship with sub-average AA is pointless. In principle AA ships should provide cover for weaker ships, but in practice no one is going to go out in a random battle trusting that to happen when you can choose to sail a ship with good AA instead. Most of my favorite ships are disadvantaged and unused.

3. Similar to the above. Radar is almost useless, torpedoes on cruisers are almost useless, concealment is almost useless. So few ships are viable now.

4. The highest kills I've got recently in randoms is 4, and that was a killsteal fiesta in Colorado, picking off stragglers since I couldn't get to the front fast enough to have more impact. There is no reward for playing well anymore. Sitting back and shooting at things will work just as well if not better.

5. I've been grinding Bismark. A brawling T8 BB with no deck armor, in predominently T10 MM with 2 enemy CVs. Talk about bashing your head against a brick wall... I all could think of while playing is "why am I even trying to do this?"  

1. Agree. Unless the CV player's aim is terrible, you can't dodge it. Damage is lowered a lot, so there is that. But DDs should get most leeway vs an airstrike, because they are vital to have in a fleet, and have the least HP of all. Like aircraft weapons deal only 10% damage to DDs, this will make the cruisers responsible for taking out the DDs, not CVs.

2. #MAKEAAAURAOVERLAPAGAIN2019

3. Not sure if I agree. Most are still really good, like radar and torpedoes on Zao and Minotaur. I have more than once unleashed my Hindenburg's torps on hapless BBs. Concealment is still pretty much viable throughout. WG just want to have a (unprovoked) war on concealment, that's all. 

4. You decided to play a Slowdorado and then complained about the speed? :Smile_hiding:

5. Until WG implement a +-1 MM, T8 will see T10 with nightmarish frequency.

Edited by Paladinum

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10 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

What is the point of being good at a game if being good at the game does not help your team win?

'Cause that's where I am with this now. Playing WoWS just feels pointless, like I'm just there to shoot at stuff and be shot at for 15-20 minutes while someone else rolls a dice to see who wins.

I have a list of grievances. Here we go:

1. There is no WASD counter to air attacks. You can't really dodge torpedo bombers or any other airborne attack anymore, especially not in a battleship. Unless the enemy CV is a noob, they can hit you whenever they want, it's just how many planes they will lose. This is a very static mechanic. No skill is involved on the ship side, just consumables  management.

2. Playing any ship with sub-average AA is pointless. In principle AA ships should provide cover for weaker ships, but in practice no one is going to go out in a random battle trusting that to happen when you can choose to sail a ship with good AA instead. Most of my favorite ships are disadvantaged and unused.

3. Similar to the above. Radar is almost useless, torpedoes on cruisers are almost useless, concealment is almost useless. So few ships are viable now.

4. The highest kills I've got recently in randoms is 4, and that was a killsteal fiesta in Colorado, picking off stragglers since I couldn't get to the front fast enough to have more impact. There is no reward for playing well anymore. Sitting back and shooting at things will work just as well if not better.

5. I've been grinding Bismark. A brawling T8 BB with no deck armor, in predominently T10 MM with 2 enemy CVs. Talk about bashing your head against a brick wall... I all could think of while playing is "why am I even trying to do this?"  

Ugh. I think I'm gonna take a break for a while. Maybe a long while.

 

1. You can, but in DD
2. and 3. Standing with the group, AA with gain additional damage.

4. N/A

5. From 0.8.2.0.1 is out  mechanics. In Tier X battles (Tier VIII-X ships), situations with three CVs per team will no longer be possible, while the number of battles with two CVs per team will be reduced drastically.

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19 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

1. There is no WASD counter to air attacks. You can't really dodge torpedo bombers or any other airborne attack anymore, especially not in a battleship. Unless the enemy CV is a noob, they can hit you whenever they want, it's just how many planes they will lose. This is a very static mechanic. No skill is involved on the ship side, just consumables  management.

2. Playing any ship with sub-average AA is pointless. In principle AA ships should provide cover for weaker ships, but in practice no one is going to go out in a random battle trusting that to happen when you can choose to sail a ship with good AA instead. Most of my favorite ships are disadvantaged and unused.

3. Similar to the above. Radar is almost useless, torpedoes on cruisers are almost useless, concealment is almost useless. So few ships are viable now.

4. The highest kills I've got recently in randoms is 4, and that was a killsteal fiesta in Colorado, picking off stragglers since I couldn't get to the front fast enough to have more impact. There is no reward for playing well anymore. Sitting back and shooting at things will work just as well if not better.

5. I've been grinding Bismark. A brawling T8 BB with no deck armor, in predominently T10 MM with 2 enemy CVs. Talk about bashing your head against a brick wall... I all could think of while playing is "why am I even trying to do this?"  

1) Depending on what ship you are playing and what type of aircraft they are, you can dodge or at least minimise how much damage you take. You may not be able to avoid all torpedo bombers in a BB (and expecting to do so is just stupid) but you can greatly reduce the amount of torpedoes you eat.

2) Just don't go out by yourself if you have weak AA. Stay close and support your friendlies and they will support you.

3) What? No they aren't useless. Radar is still a big threat to DDs, cruiser torpedoes can still sink BBs in a pinch (you shouldn't be relying on them anyway except as emergency weapons). Concealment is a lot less useful for BBs but far from useless, especially for DDs and cruisers.

4) Colorados aren't exactly known for their speed. Once you pick a flank you have to commit to it. Don't be one of those people that spawn at A but sail to C (do that only with everyone at A lemmings to C).

5) Being a tier 8 in a tier 10 match has always been a tough spot, with or without CVs. Not much to say except to tough it out and do your best to support the team. No need to try and be a hero.

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I'm angling against enemy in front...  crap! enemy TB approach from my starboard! what should I do!?

crap, I take 2 torp hit! now that TB make u-turn and came from port side!? what should I do!?

phew... I survive 2 run of TB, took 4 torp hit but manage to shoot down whole TB squad.

now what....

enemy DB : "hello! I'm back!"

:etc_swear:

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11 hours ago, Paladinum said:

4. You decided to play a Slowdorado and then complained about the speed? 

To explain, since this comment seems to have been largely misunderstood:

I am not complaining because I did badly in Colorado, or that Colorado is slow. I am complaining because the most kills I got in a game recently was in Colorado, where all I did (because that's all I could do) was shoot from the back of the fleet. There was no skill involved, no strategy, no plan. Just sail and shoot.

It was an example to reinforce this idea that skill and reward have been decoupled in the 8.2 CV landscape. There's no advantage to being inventive or daring. No advantage to knowing the detailed mechanics of the game. Just sail and shoot.

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47 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

There was no skill involved, no strategy, no plan. Just sail and shoot.

Oh now you're complaining about no strategy when playing a backline BB :Smile_hiding:

Joking aside, yes, I do feel that ever-present fear of pushing is made worse by the new CVs. If the DDs don't push, the flank stays put. It IS sad.

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32 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Joking aside, yes, I do feel that ever-present fear of pushing is made worse by the new CVs. If the DDs don't push, the flank stays put. It IS sad.

The thing is, what I found interesting and engaging about WoWS was its complexity. Not just he armor and angling mechanics, ballistics, and "rock-paper-scissors" asymmetrical ship classes, but probably more than anything was the stealth, spotting, and vision mechanics. Learning to manipulate concealment to your advantage, or, as a DD, giving vision to your team, was a big part of the fun of playing.

8.0 CVs have removed vision limits from game. Now, before you all object that CVs have always provided spotting, what's missing from the game now, that was present in the old pre-rework CV mechanic, is the concept of air superiority. A CV could choose between strike and AS loadouts. In AS, you defended your team from enemy strikes, and you provided concealment  spaces by removing enemy spotting planes. And with finite planes, that presented a strike carrier with hard limits for target selection and spotting ability. Post 8.0 it's all strike, all the time. And as a byproduct, permanent vision to both teams.

In that environment, there is no value in pushing. In fact there is every advantage to your team all sitting back and focusing anyone of the enemy that foolishly decides to move up independently of their fleet. The games devolve, as they have recently, into two static battle lines shooting at each from opposite sides of the cap about 15 km distant, while the planes do constant flyovers. That goes on until one side weakens sufficiently for sweep up operations to start. Which, for the surface ships, just means late game damage farming or kiting-and-dying depending on which side you end up on.

I played Mogami on the weekend, first time in a long while. Never managed to get closer than 12 km to an enemy ship, never spent more than 1 min undetected. No torps fired the entire game. It's just shoot-kite, shoot-kite as your health bar gradually sinks.

Edited by Rina_Pon

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17 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

8.0 CVs have removed vision limits from game. Now, before you all object that CVs have always provided spotting, what's missing from the game now, that was present in the old pre-rework CV mechanic, is the concept of air superiority. A CV could choose between strike and AS loadouts. In AS, you defended your team from enemy strikes, and you provided concealment  spaces by removing enemy spotting planes. And with finite planes, that presented a strike carrier with hard limits for target selection and spotting ability. Post 8.0 it's all strike, all the time. And as a byproduct, permanent vision to both teams.

This game isn't made for non-surface combat. And by making the game more and more accessible to more people (or making more people play one ship type), WG are making it more and more boring and frustrating.

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2 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

...

8.0 CVs have removed vision limits from game. Now, before you all object that CVs have always provided spotting, what's missing from the game now, that was present in the old pre-rework CV mechanic, is the concept of air superiority. A CV could choose between strike and AS loadouts. In AS, you defended your team from enemy strikes, and you provided concealment  spaces by removing enemy spotting planes. And with finite planes, that presented a strike carrier with hard limits for target selection and spotting ability. Post 8.0 it's all strike, all the time. And as a byproduct, permanent vision to both teams.

In that environment, there is no value in pushing. In fact there is every advantage to your team all sitting back and focusing anyone of the enemy that foolishly decides to move up independently of their fleet. The games devolve, as they have recently, into two static battle lines shooting at each from opposite sides of the cap about 15 km distant, while the planes do constant flyovers. That goes on until one side weakens sufficiently for sweep up operations to start. Which, for the surface ships, just means late game damage farming or kiting-and-dying depending on which side you end up on.

I played Mogami on the weekend, first time in a long while. Never managed to get closer than 12 km to an enemy ship, never spent more than 1 min undetected. No torps fired the entire game. It's just shoot-kite, shoot-kite as your health bar gradually sinks.

isn't that so ... really .. and when I play my CL and DD .. I was sailing at that 15KM doing nothing , cause if I ever sail forth I will die quick and at the range I am just an audience 

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