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ManOfTheYear

How to motivate team mates to get off the map border?

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Folks,

I am having a horrible time playing this game lately and need some advice. It seems like for the first 15 minutes of a game, nobody wants to get within 20km of each other, even without a CV in the game.

As a cruiser or DD player, I can't shoot anything because the enemy is too far away. So I get closer, which means I am 12-15km in front of my nearest "friendly". They are too far behind to support, and I either run away to live and lose, or die with no support and lose.

I wondered, what is the point of playing like this? If people want to be so passive, and play at the back of the map never taking damage and lose....why play? Grinding account for others to buy?

On the rare occasion you see someone push W key a few times, they get way into the enemy and die. People don't realise, there is a middle ground between too far back and too far forward? What is happening here?

And how do I tell people who speak another language that I need help? I ping the map, I use the F commands, but still those full HP battleships sail in circles at the back of the map.

Why?

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Perpetual problem until wg fixes the rewards system such that long distance sniping nets less xp, support activities net more xp. bbs/cas shooting at max range get 100% dispersion penalty. Basically, they need to disincentivise staying at range. 

 

Edited by dejiko_nyo

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1 hour ago, ManOfTheYear said:

Folks,

I am having a horrible time playing this game lately and need some advice. It seems like for the first 15 minutes of a game, nobody wants to get within 20km of each other, even without a CV in the game.

As a cruiser or DD player, I can't shoot anything because the enemy is too far away. So I get closer, which means I am 12-15km in front of my nearest "friendly". They are too far behind to support, and I either run away to live and lose, or die with no support and lose.

I wondered, what is the point of playing like this? If people want to be so passive, and play at the back of the map never taking damage and lose....why play? Grinding account for others to buy?

On the rare occasion you see someone push W key a few times, they get way into the enemy and die. People don't realise, there is a middle ground between too far back and too far forward? What is happening here?

And how do I tell people who speak another language that I need help? I ping the map, I use the F commands, but still those full HP battleships sail in circles at the back of the map.

Why?

Same here, in space battles, each time I make some sort of advance, I get the message loud and clear "get back" -- "Get back" I just reply, to no avail "Move up" -- "Move up" gives me the shits, -- then I have to hide for a while and wait for back up.

 

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53 minutes ago, RedAdmiral_1 said:

Same here, in space battles, each time I make some sort of advance, I get the message loud and clear "get back" -- "Get back" I just reply, to no avail "Move up" -- "Move up" gives me the shits, -- then I have to hide for a while and wait for back up.

 

And when they are not telling you to get back, they are spamming "need intelligence data"

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13 minutes ago, Watboy said:

And when they are not telling you to get back, they are spamming "need intelligence data"

I always mentally edit those guys to simply “need intelligence”.

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15 minutes ago, Watboy said:

And when they are not telling you to get back, they are spamming "need intelligence data"

I have seen several occasions where a ship advances far ahead spamming "Need intelligence data".

Me: "Are you freaking kidding me? What you need is intelligence, not intelligence data".

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3 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Perpetual problem until wg fixes the rewards system such that long distance sniping nets less xp, support activities net more xp. bbs/cas shooting at max range get 100% dispersion penalty. Basically, they need to disincentivise staying at range. 

 

It's not  the rewards system(tho that does need reworking) it's more the CV meta taking over.

If you are a DD you cant stray far from your AA team mates or you're dead meat.

So there is no spotting or very little, there's no torp screening, and there is very little early capping.

All of this results in stagnant sniping style play that Wg seem to want since its introduced numerous things to make DD's stay away from the cap or not be in the game at all which is what Im seeing. 

 Why do you think I hate it so much? Its boring and CV's just dominate.

Edited by dieselhead

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10 minutes ago, dieselhead said:

It's not  the rewards system(tho that does need reworking) it's more the CV meta taking over.

If you are a DD you cant stray far from your AA team mates or you're dead meat.

So there is no spotting or very little, there's no torp screening, and there is very little early capping.

All of this results in stagnant sniping style play that Wg seem to want since its introduced numerous things to make DD's stay away from the cap or not be in the game at all which is what Im seeing. 

 Why do you think I hate it so much? Its boring and CV's just dominate.

So, why does this also happen in games with no CVs? Such as space battle?

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Its not the CVs that keep everybody back, its just the default play-style on the server, people don't play so much to win as to farm damage. The best you can hope to do is to division with a few decent players and hope that the three of you working together can at least hold or push your flank etc. Go into battle assuming no cooperation since that's the dafault and occasionally you may be pleasantly surprised when you get somebody competent who will work with you

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There are many reasons;

1. Can't get your paintwork dirty if you stay back

2. You can avoid damaging your paintwork (See point 1)

3. If you die in the game, you die in real life........

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If no one push, you should be push back.

List of ship that can push :

- Russian/Pan Asia DD

- German/French BB

- CV rework....

- sadly its stupid to push using CA. Or at least it never work well with me...

 

6 hours ago, ManOfTheYear said:

Folks,

 

As a cruiser or DD player, I can't shoot anything because the enemy is too far away. So I get closer, which means I am 12-15km in front of my nearest "friendly". They are too far behind to support, and I either run away to live and lose, or die with no support and lose.

 

 

Get Russian DD with AFT or get French CA, They got superb range. Also on Asia this is not team battle.... Its battle royale....

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On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 2:58 PM, Grygus_Triss said:

So, why does this also happen in games with no CVs? Such as space battle?

Thank you for countering the unneeded advicer.

Because I don't want to string requotes, I think a number of you already clearly pointed out the "afraid of <insertchoiceofreason>" issues on this server.

Whether its random, coop, ops, cv, no cv, space battles, halloween - the problems exists across the spectrum. It is frustrating when you team is full of people like that. I have been on winning teams that only won because our opponent purposely lost the game, not that our team played better. That's why the scoring needs to be reworked to reward team work and long range penalities introduced. If other servers don't play like us and push instead, players will still be able to score as well as they currently do. Only the non-team players lose out.

I believe the whole idea of arms race is to improve the push but that is only half way there.

Edited by dejiko_nyo

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9 hours ago, dieselhead said:

Why do you think I hate it so much? Its boring and CV's just dominate.

These posts are pretty boring.

How did I know you were going to somehow make this about CV's, despite the fact that lone ships right at the back are directly countered by CV's, and this play style is far more prevalent in battles without CV's.

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On 4/4/2019 at 2:51 AM, Moggytwo said:

These posts are pretty boring.

How did I know you were going to somehow make this about CV's, despite the fact that lone ships right at the back are directly countered by CV's, and this play style is far more prevalent in battles without CV's.

 So you're going to sit there and try telling me that the new cv meta doesnt make it worse when there are pages of people saying they hate how the whole team blobs up or wont push now?

You're just another player in denial.

Obviously its always happened but its a lot worse now than before and worse in CV games because if you push you get singled out because the team rarely pushes with you for fear of CV.

I could take numerous screen shots of this exact thing

On 4/3/2019 at 10:34 PM, dejiko_nyo said:

Thank you for countering the [content removed] .

Because I don't want to string requotes, I think a number of you already clearly pointed out the "afraid of <insertchoiceofreason>" issues on this server.

Whether its random, coop, ops, cv, no cv, space battles, halloween - the problems exists across the spectrum. It is frustrating when you team is full of people like that. I have been on winning teams that only won because our opponent purposely lost the game, not that our team played better. That's why the scoring needs to be reworked to reward team work and long range penalities introduced. If other servers don't play like us and push instead, players will still be able to score as well as they currently do. Only the non-team players lose out.

I believe the whole idea of arms race is to improve the push but that is only half way there

As for you, read above.

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It all stems from the CVS you dont have to have them in the game, this is what the OP CVS and there unlimited planes have done to the game, the mentality of the people is so fix on not being smashed by planes has now come into the game even with no CVS, they will not come forward well that is what i am seeing until they do something about the CVS the game is ruined.

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39 minutes ago, rufusflywheel said:

It all stems from the CVS you dont have to have them in the game, this is what the OP CVS and there unlimited planes have done to the game, the mentality of the people is so fix on not being smashed by planes has now come into the game even with no CVS, they will not come forward well that is what i am seeing until they do something about the CVS the game is ruined.

Everybody sat back before the CV rework too. Now the only difference is that they all sit back in a corner together rather than spread out across the back of the map

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Plant explosive anti-ship mines along the borders, so that they explode on contact..... That will soon discourage border humping...

 

Ordrazz

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45 minutes ago, Ordrazz said:

Plant explosive anti-ship mines along the borders, so that they explode on contact..... That will soon discourage border humping...

 

Ordrazz

thanks for pointing out my next pet peev, those players that when faced with the possibility of having to engage in a fair fight instead angle and just slide along the border in a way that is very hard to judge speed. I understand that sometimes you can underestimate turning circles etc and you may need to bounce off the wall, but the people who do it deliberately as a cheep tactic really grind my gears. The idea of minefields at the side actually sounds like a pretty good way to discourage that. At the very least it should be that if you are on the border for more than a few seconds (the time it would take a ship not trying to be there to urn and move off it again) you should suffer a much greater penalty that just being slowed down. you should take damage maybe even turn pink for unsporting conduct. 

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35 minutes ago, blauflamme22 said:

thanks for pointing out my next pet peev, those players that when faced with the possibility of having to engage in a fair fight instead angle and just slide along the border in a way that is very hard to judge speed.

I understand your position, and that it can be considered taking advantage of a game mechanic to make it more difficult to be hit.

However, I also think that if I'm kiting away from a ship and trying to maintain an optimal distance, and I run into the map border, then I want to actually be further away than the map edge will let me, and being artificially forced into a position I would not normally take.  Usually map border riding is simply because you've run out of map, rather than to try and make it more difficult to shoot at you.

In this way the fight is unfair, since one player is constrained by the border into a sub-optimal position, and the other is not.

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2 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Who wants to bet that MM puts the radar ships and the radar jamming DDs on the same team:Smile_trollface:

Are you on the correct thread? 😛

 

@Moggytwo @blauflamme22 The map edge sliding tactic concerns are valid but that is the only satisfactory way to defining a boundary limit to the map. Or the other option is if you spend 30 seconds at map edge,  you leave the map and take no future active part in the me.

As someone who on occasion uses the tactic, I would suggest trying it out yourself and getting a feel of how a ship performs in such a situation so that you can compensate for tricky people who think you don't know how to correct your aim. The penalties for hitting the map edge gets more noticable the longer you stay. 

Edited by dejiko_nyo

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1 hour ago, Moggytwo said:

I understand your position, and that it can be considered taking advantage of a game mechanic to make it more difficult to be hit.

However, I also think that if I'm kiting away from a ship and trying to maintain an optimal distance, and I run into the map border, then I want to actually be further away than the map edge will let me, and being artificially forced into a position I would not normally take.  Usually map border riding is simply because you've run out of map, rather than to try and make it more difficult to shoot at you.

In this way the fight is unfair, since one player is constrained by the border into a sub-optimal position, and the other is not.

The thing is, if you want/need to be further away than the map edge will let you be then you have made an error in your positioning in the first place. If I as a player allow myself to be cornered or forced onto a map edge then it is my fault. The map edge is a static point, you are expected to dodge islands an wouldn't let yourself get forced into one of them so why should the map edge be seen as anything different?

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2 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Are you on the correct thread? 😛

 

@Moggytwo @blauflamme22 The map edge sliding tactic concerns are valid but that is the only satisfactory way to defining a boundary limit to the map. Or the other option is if you spend 30 seconds at map edge,  you leave the map and take no future active part in the me.

As someone who on occasion uses the tactic, I would suggest trying it out yourself and getting a feel of how a ship performs in such a situation so that you can compensate for tricky people who think you don't know how to correct your aim. The penalties for hitting the map edge gets more noticable the longer you stay. 

Damn, I am on the wrong thread... how did that happen?

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I chalk it up to poor game knowledge. Players don't know the capabilities of their ship or that of their enemies. So they play safe by camping at the back.

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