Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
D_for_Detonation

CV is still OP to lone ships after 0.8.0.3, pls nerf

20 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

10
[HKACC]
Super Tester_
21 posts
5,101 battles

unknown.png?width=2381&height=1339unknown.png?width=2381&height=1339unknown.png?width=2381&height=1339

Amagi going alone, damage con single fire from rocket, perma flood from aerial torpedos...... CV OP pls nerf
Yamato going alone, sailing in straight line, eating 4 citadels from dive bombs.......... CV OP pls nerf
Izumo beached on island, eating 4 torps.......... CV OP pls nerf
Shima going alone, got perma spotted by CV having planes circling above without attacking, focused to death......... CV OP pls nerf
WUT? CV doing more than 100k damage?....... CV OP pls nerf

P.S. Not a troll post

  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,975
[CLAY]
Member
2,643 posts
11,975 battles
2 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

CVs punishing players who go alone?

Working as intended.

Agreed. Puts a stop to all those BBs who stay at the back sniping. I’m looking at you Conquerer.

Though it can be irritating, especially on the slower BBs, you try to follow a few of you team to one flank (cruisers and DDs usually), then they either die quickly or turn and run, essentially leaving you alone because you can’t turn and run as quickly as they can.

Or if you’re in standard battle, and most of the team goes to one side, and you have to choose between staying on your initial flank to defend the base, leaving you looking like a noob because you struck out alone, or; staying with team for AA support, looking like a noob because you lemmininged with them.

Seriously guys, not hard to look at mini map, see fleet layout, plan vague objectives and disperse accordingly.

And if you see a BB trying to push up to support you, please try to support it (unless it yolo’s towards a DD infested cap, then it’s on its own)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
1,312 posts
4,882 battles

Had a team yesterday where every single one of my teams 6 BBs went off alone, and each one got picked off by enemy CV.

I typed in battle chat 3 times, stick together! cruisers with BBs! BBs don't go alone etc, all waste of time, all while getting 100k damage in tier 6 CV, working furiously to try win. Lost when clock expired by ONE dead ship (50 points on the score), who of course WAS OFF ON THEIR OWN.

I am still yet to meet an enemy team that dumb, whilst I am CV Captain....

If team has enough cruisers they can form an AA screen in forward positions, I see plenty of enemy teams do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
602
[BLESS]
Member
1,148 posts
10,280 battles

@D_for_Detonation

You've touched to the core of the problem: By my estimate, roughly half of the WoWS playerbase do not want CVs in the game, period. This very large group will not be satisfied until CVs are nerfed into irrelevance, so if WG is balancing the game at least partly based on player feedback it's going to skew if favor of surface ships.

That said, even when things are going in the right direction CV effectiveness is going to oscillate around what might objectively be considered the ideal value. It's an iterative process after all.

My [unpopular] opinion is that 0.8.0.3 moved the needle too far into CV nerf territory, but in 0.8.0.2 they were still OP. A very gentle CV buff**, perhaps together with some QoL enhancements for CV captains, and maybe a small AA nerf to some of those IJN ships which are supposed to have very poor AA is all that's needed.

 

** I realize condensing the balance issue to a binary buff/nerf is an oversimplification, and that skill floor, skill ceiling must be considered as well as intangibles like player satisfaction. Regardless, pretty much no one is playing CVs anymore since 0803 dropped and that's as good as indicator as any that WG overcompensated in the last patch. 

Edited by Rina_Pon
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,895
[TDA]
ST Coordinator
5,593 posts
7,352 battles
4 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

CVs punishing players who go alone?

Working as intended.

100% on the money there.

By the time you are playing T10 you should be able to work as  a team rather than a goober who charges off and dies uselessly.   The spotting mechanics seem to work ok at the moment where spotted ships disengage reasonably easily once the planes turn off.

 

Honestly, as much as I don't really like playing CV's its a personal choice only and they do play a part in the game.  The change seems to do exactly what it intended to do and that was to close the skill gap.  All the other issues are no different to the game when it first started.  Treat CV development as Alpha/beta/Open/patch and this is what we are doing at the moment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,294
[TDA]
[TDA]
Alpha Tester
2,197 posts
8,131 battles

Who would have thought a ship caught all by itself would be at the mercy of aircraft?

This is totally unacceptable.

Poor players have a right to ignore basic teamplay and go off by themselves to do useless things, without having planes harassing them.

 

8 hours ago, D_for_Detonation said:


Izumo beached on island, eating 4 torps.......... CV OP pls nerf
 

This is obviously the islands' fault. Pls eradicate all islands.

  • Funny 2
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
311
[LBAS]
Beta Tester
875 posts
5,777 battles
36 分前、AntifoulAwl の発言:

This is obviously the islands' fault. Pls eradicate all islands.

we need more Ocean map.

  • Cool 3
  • Funny 2
  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
1,312 posts
4,882 battles
28 minutes ago, spixys said:

we need more Ocean map.

Absolutely concur.

I have only played the actual ocean map once in 100s of games in months. Thought it had been removed until I got it.

Many other ships besides BBs excel on open ocean map, my Atlanta THRIVES on it.

DDs probably would do great too because a CV plane would have to fly directly over the top of the ship to spot it, with lots of islands, the DD movements can be more predictable, cap point maps don't help DD much, but they haven't complained about that yet!!. Just blame CV OP.

Please WG, more open ocean maps!, perhaps featuring the different oceans of the world?.

Atlantic: dark and stormy, huge waves.

Pacific: clear blue water, beautiful sunny day. lots of sharks.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,297
Member
4,494 posts
8,613 battles
57 minutes ago, spixys said:

we need more Ocean map.

We ONLY need Ocean map, actually. All other maps can be removed.

  • Cool 4
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
654
[SMOKE]
Member
1,815 posts
15,556 battles

OK I do agree with most here, but the OP got a point somewhat ... Solo or small group can still be OPed by CV and there is time a ship especially light force need to find a way to sail vanguard. its a bit counter intuitive to keep asking the light force to stick around the main group, their duty is not being just another cruiser around ( even though they are just CL ) and not to speak of all the DD they cannot get their work done if the do not sail forth to get in range ... what matter is ow to counter play, right now even with the late patch and staying stealth until detection range the DDs and CLs are still too vulnerable against rocket planes .. at that close range AA is practically useless and thus do not deter them from repeated attacks and if the CL and DD turn on their AA before aerial detection range, they can use their effective long range and somewhat OK mid range AA but then they lost all their stealth and still counter play to deter is very much questionable at best and downright non existent most of the time ..

 

Right now the big issue is still that perma spotting and tha taking away others game play ( especially for CL and DD ) and all the hotfix do not fix them either. I just had yesteday checking the hotfix well sorry did not do a thing to alleviate the problem .. not a sngle minute into the game everybody know where everybody else are except CV themselves ( and sometime even them are not excluded ) and pretty much rest of game everybody had to stay within the rear echelon 3 lines of the map and long range gun duel again cause no one can venture out to do their duty, not the DD and CL, and not the CA and BB. The only time one can had any chance is if one encounter a CV player who choose to let the guard down.  Even in tight small group of 3 ( DD + CL ) I've found that the CV can still dominate , in which case the combined AA do kill some but not enough to deter the repeated aerial attack and of course again perma spotting and then all these light force had to cope with enemy surface fire at the same time and this with US CL which already had  good AA. One would need almost OP AA to even start to see some real working AA and that really should not be the case by any means

WG clearly had not work this one out right and I wager they still do not really had any idea to had it right , the hotfixs are knee jerk response at best, and simply do not fix

Edited by Mechfori

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0
[HKACC]
Member
2 posts
3,633 battles

As a DD main in the game, I also have some opinion to share in all these complaints about CV. Just GIT GUD, and stop being [content removed]

The reworks seems to be a good thing, you get actual gameplay in flying planes rather than RTS style (I've only play in Coop so far for CV). 
The bits that bothers me is the AA. I mean, only 1.9km for small range AA. We do have small detection range by air so I guess that's balance it. IJN ships are still felt balanced after all this nerf/buff (no I don't have premium, and yes I've heard Atago is monster AA now).

Profanity. Post edited, user warned.

~Beaufighter

  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,564
[TLS]
Member
3,926 posts
19,946 battles
6 hours ago, spixys said:

we need more Ocean map.

Definately. Historical accuracy.

 

13 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

CVs punishing players who go alone?

Working as intended.

Definately. 

 

5 hours ago, Paladinum said:

We ONLY need Ocean map, actually. All other maps can be removed.

Support 1000%

@MechforiToo long to requote but essentially we need to retool cv to be battleship hunter while incurring a penalty against dd. Remove the anti-dd weapons. If a dd manages to get near a cv, then it means 1) your team is doing a crap job screening and/or 2) why are you not following your team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1
[C_A_D]
Member
3 posts
10,601 battles

i see this as sarcasm.. 

and i feel sorry about CV nerf, the challenge level dropped a lot. 

when DD can rekt most of planes in a squadron he same as non AA build cruiser i feel bored... 

PS: already sold all CV for millions free exp 1 week after 0.8.0 and happy to play the underdog DD. CV was fun.. WAS...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10
[HKACC]
Super Tester_
21 posts
5,101 battles
20 minutes ago, headles_chicken said:

i see this as sarcasm.. 

and i feel sorry about CV nerf, the challenge level dropped a lot. 

when DD can rekt most of planes in a squadron he same as non AA build cruiser i feel bored... 

PS: already sold all CV for millions free exp 1 week after 0.8.0 and happy to play the underdog DD. CV was fun.. WAS...

This indeed is sarcasm as I am imitating some players.

5 hours ago, Mechfori said:

OK I do agree with most here, but the OP got a point somewhat ... Solo or small group can still be OPed by CV and there is time a ship especially light force need to find a way to sail vanguard. its a bit counter intuitive to keep asking the light force to stick around the main group, their duty is not being just another cruiser around ( even though they are just CL ) and not to speak of all the DD they cannot get their work done if the do not sail forth to get in range ...

My point is solo ships deserved to be harassed by CVs. A light force sailing alone with no strong AA ship also deserved to be blapped by CVs. But with the current AA updates, ships with slightly stronger AA make planes nearly impenetrable. The balance should not make strong AA ship "immune" to planes but act as a platform to deter planes and make CV think twice before attacking, while causing heavy loss if the CV is committed to the attack.

10 hours ago, AntifoulAwl said:

Who would have thought a ship caught all by itself would be at the mercy of aircraft?

This is totally unacceptable.

Ya I agree, completely unacceptable.

11 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

You've touched to the core of the problem: By my estimate, roughly half of the WoWS playerbase do not want CVs in the game, period. This very large group will not be satisfied until CVs are nerfed into irrelevance, so if WG is balancing the game at least partly based on player feedback it's going to skew if favor of surface ships.

CVs are still relevant at current state. They can still make important contribution. In the game I quoted I successfully transform the game from a lose to win by dropping the last lone Yamato in the last minute, reverting the score. All in all, CVs are still the only ship type that can extend in the field rapidly and cause game changing move.

 

11 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

My [unpopular] opinion is that 0.8.0.3 moved the needle too far into CV nerf territory, but in 0.8.0.2 they were still OP. A very gentle CV buff**, perhaps together with some QoL enhancements for CV captains, and maybe a small AA nerf to some of those IJN ships which are supposed to have very poor AA is all that's needed.

For this I agree. Also they nerfed Hak's 8KM long range torps into an unusable state. I see no one actually using it in battle. Currently, it is impossible to get any planes left if you F key directly after a strike, be it a strong AA or weak AA ship. To have planes coming back you need to do the strike, fly for a while getting out of AA range, then press F. I think they nerfed the F spam too hard.

16 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

CVs punishing players who go alone?

Working as intended.

Sadly this is the only thing they can do at the moment.

Also I find myself perma spotting DD even more after 0.8.0.3. Because I can't attack any ship with OK-ish AA without losing all my planes. In the end I end up circling above DDs, without doing any attack run, and get my team to end their miserable life. The detection buff to surface ships make it impossible to do a tight aim to actively moving DDs, instead I do the above..... All in all the update makes DD perma spotting even worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
580 posts
1,631 battles

For a MMO game, Each role shall be independently controllable/playable, sure the game may encourage team play. but it should apply to all roles/classes equally.

When certain type of role (all non-CVs)  must group together just to repel the attack of one other role (CV). Something has gone terribly WRONG here. It is beyond simple balancing but problem deep in the role design , game dynamic.

Just like aircraft have to fly in group as a squadron and squadron become a unit of control,   because they need to act as one group. 

At this moment, there many elements in the game are not inline with each other. I just can't see simple tweaking (so call balancing) would really come up with a solution to accommodate all the intended game roles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
498
[LBAS]
Member
1,548 posts

so... to take more than 2 ship to counter 1 ship is good than. nice

don't forget that map is vast and objective area are spread whole map at best scenario I (shimakaze) mostly have 1-2 AA ship with me and I have to be sure they must in AA effective range (I use white dot line that show my surface detection as a guide and keep friendly CA within that line)

and enemy midway still fly in, drop bomb on me, took 50% of my HP along with it.

he lose whole squad but what the point when next 30sec fresh new squad of rocket fly to my 'last known position' and attack me again.

with plane speed even my max speed, I'm still literally in same square on minimap, don't even have a Chance to relocate or switching flank.

so much fun playing as parasite stick with AA ship only for survival.

~\(≧▽≦)/~

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
152
[ANZAF]
Member
376 posts
5,569 battles

Well I had a few games over the weekend, my first after the CV rework. All Shima games.

First one had 1 CV each,  one DD & 3 radar ships each. I stayed pretty close (~3-4km) to a Wor and we didn't really get a lot of aircraft attention after the first squadron was killed attacing us. . Scored an early blind torp hit on the enemy DD who tried to cap and we steadily worked them down. I pinged radio detection bearing and CV flew planes along it. By halfway through it i was out in front of the Wor and we blasted away until we found the CV. At the end their CV was a 54% WR while our guy was 65%.

Next one there was no CV. We lost this one.

Third was similar to the first game. a pretty easy win.

Loners were seriously worked over, but with 1 CV it was not really enough to handle reasonably aggressive pushing by our teams. One flank would always be advancing and putting pressure on their BBs and CA/CL. 

As the lone DD in the games I found that radar seemed to be not as bad as i remembered, they didn't seem to take the same aggressive positions behind cover that would have exposed them. Maybe the CV is making those isolated but strong radar positions not as desirable. But i didn't push caps early at all.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
65
[HKENL]
Member
362 posts
12,682 battles
On 2/24/2019 at 12:28 AM, D_for_Detonation said:

Amagi going alone, damage con single fire from rocket, perma flood from aerial torpedos...... CV OP pls nerf
Yamato going alone, sailing in straight line, eating 4 citadels from dive bombs.......... CV OP pls nerf
Izumo beached on island, eating 4 torps.......... CV OP pls nerf
Shima going alone, got perma spotted by CV having planes circling above without attacking, focused to death......... CV OP pls nerf
WUT? CV doing more than 100k damage?....... CV OP pls nerf

P.S. Not a troll post

 

dd going alone to spot/cap is usual, of course cv should be nerf . 

that why dd players are dropped significantly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×