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S0und_Theif

Pan-America Destroyer Tech Tree Suggestion (Incomplete Cruiser and Battleship)

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Hi Wargameing Dev team,

I would like to suggest a complete Pan-America destroyer line. However I came in 2 problems:

1. I cant find a suitable T1 for the Pan- America gunboat for the tech tree and need help on this.

2. Pan-America needs a unique gimmick or play style (Pan-Asia Deep-Water torpedo, British ambush and flee destroyer, German tanky destroyers, Russian suicide tactic,  Commonwealth creep smoke). May it be armament, consumable, or their stats.

 

However I was able to complete a destroyer line for Pan-America. I hope you like them.

Here is what I have come up with when looking around the internet:

Main Line DD

T2 
Alexandrino de Alenca / Maranhão (BR)
Originally Porpoise "K-Class 1913" (UK)

Armament:
3 × QF 4 in (102 mm) Mark IV guns (3 x 1)
1 × QF 2 pdr (40 mm) pom-pom Mk. II (1 x 1)
2 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedoes (2 x 1)


T3
San Luis (AR)
Originally Aetos (GR)

Armament:
3 × QF 4 in (102 mm) Mark IV guns (4 x 1)
2 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (2 x 1)
4 × 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon  guns (4 x 1)
6 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedoes (2 x 3)


T4
Almirante Villiar (PE)
Originally Miklucho Maklai "Orfey Vlass" (RU)

Armament:
4 × 4.0 in (102 mm)/60 Pattern 1911 guns (4 x 1)
1 × QF 2 pdr (40 mm) pom-pom Mk. II (1 x 1)
2 × 0.30 in (7.62 mm) Maxim machine guns (2 x 1)
9 × 18 in (450 mm) torpedo tubes (3 x 3)

Note: Miklucho Maklai (RU) -> Vambola (EE) -> Almirante Villiar (PE)
See "Pan-Europe Destroyer Tech Tree Suggestion"

or

Almirante Guise (PE)
Originally Avtroil "Izyaslav Class" (RU)

Armament:
5 × 4.0 in (102 mm)/60 Pattern 1911 guns (5 x 1)
1 x 2.5 in (63.3 mm) Model 1916 (1 x 1) / 4 x 1.8 in (45 mm) 21-K (4 x 1)
2 × 0.30 in (7.62 mm) Maxim machine guns (2 x 1)
9 × 18 in (450 mm) torpedo tubes (3 x 3)

Note: Avtroil (RU) -> Lennuk (EE) -> Almirante Guise (PE)
See "Pan-Europe Destroyer Tech Tree Suggestion"


T5 
Mendoza (AR)
Based on "Scott Class" (UK)

Armament:
5 × 4.7 in (120 mm) QF Mark IX guns (5 x 1)
1 × 3 in (76 mm) AA gun
2 × QF 2 pdr (40 mm) pom-pom Mk. II (2 x 1) ? Need more info
6 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 3)

or

Cervantes (AR)
Originally Alcala Galiano "Churruca Class" (ES)

Armament:
5 × 4.7 in (120 mm)/45 guns (5 x 1)
1 × 3 in (76 mm) AA guns (1 x 1)
6 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 3)

 

From here I will split the line between 120 mm guns and 127 mm guns.
127 mm guns Branch

T6
Amazonas (BR)
Based on H-Class (UK) but armed with US 5 in (127 mm) / 38 guns

Armament:
4 x 5 in (127 mm)/38 guns (4 x 1)
2 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (1 x 2) ? Need more info
4 × 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon  guns (4 x 1)
8 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 × 4)

T7
Mariz e Barros (BR)
Based on Mahan Class (US) but only has 2 torpedo tube insted of 3

Note: I did not use Marcilio Diaz because she may be used as a T10 ship with the same name.

Armament:
5 × 5 in (127 mm)/38 guns (5 x 1)
4 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (2 x 2) 
4 × 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon  guns (4 x 1)
8 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 × 4)


T8 ????


T9
Blanco Encalada (CL)
Originally USS Wadleigh "Fletcher Class" (US)
or
Cuitláhuac (MX)
Originally USS John Rogers "Fletcher Class" (US)

Armament:
5 × 5 inch (127 mm)/38 guns (5 x 1)
10 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (5 x 2)
7–12 × 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon guns (7 x 1 or 6 x 2)
10 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 × 5)


T10
Ministro Portales (CL)
Originally USS Charles S. Sperry "Allan M Summer Class" (US)

Armament:
6 × 5 in (130 mm)/38 guns (3 x 2) [4 sec reload]
12 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (2 x 4 and 2 x 2)
10 ×  0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon guns (10 x 1)
10 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 5)

or

Quetzalcoatl (MX)
Originally USS Vogelgesang "Gearing Class" (US)

Armament:
6 × 5 in (130 mm)/38 guns (3 x 2) [3 sec reload]
12 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (2 x 4 and 2 x 2)
10 × × 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon guns (10 x 1)
10 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 5)


120mm guns branch

T6
Antioquia (CO)
Originally Douro "Douro Class" (PT)

Armament:
4 - 4.7 in (120 mm)/45 guns (4 x 1)
2 - 2 pdr (40 mm) AA guns (2 x 1)
8 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 4)

or

Buenos Aires (AR)
Based on G-Class or Gallant (UK)

Armament:
4 × 4.7 in (120 mm) QF Mark IX guns (4 × 1)
8 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) Vickers machine guns (2 x 4)
8 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 × 4)


T7
Improved Buenos Aires (AR)
Based on G-Class or Gallant with 5 guns (UK)

Armament:
5 × 4.7 in (120 mm) QF Mark IX guns (5 × 1)
8 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) Vickers machine guns (2 x 4)
8 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 × 4)


T8 ????

 

T9 Garcia y Garcia (PE)
Originally HNLMS Holland "Holland Class" (NL)

Armament:
4 x 4.7 in (120 mm) Bofors guns (2×2)
1 x 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors AA gun (1 x 1) More can be added
"Anti Submarine Mortars"

Note: No Torpedo

or

T9 Galvez (PE)
Originally HNLMS Groningen "Friesland Class" (NL)

Armament:
4 x 4.7 in (120 mm) Bofors guns (2×2)
6 x 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors AA gun (6 x 1) More can be added
"Anti Submarine Mortars"

Note: No Torpedo

 

T10 Siete de Agosto / Veinte de Julio (CO)
Modified "Halland Class" (SE) Built for Colombian Navy

Armament:
6 × 4.7 in (120 mm) Bofors guns (3 × 2)
4 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors AA guns (4 × 1)
8 × 21.0 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 × 4)
"Anti-Submarine Mortars"

and

T10 Palacios / Ferre
Originally HMS Diana / HMS Decoy respectively "Daring Class" (UK)

Armament:
6 x 4.5 in (113 mm)/45 guns (3 x 2)
8 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors AA guns (4 × 1 and 2 x 2)
4 × 21.0 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 × 5)

 

All Armaments are only stock, WG can edit or custom them.

 

Foot Note:
(BR) = Brazil            (CO) = Colombia        (US) = USA             (EE) = Estonia
(AR) = Argentina    (VE) = Venezuela        (UK) = UK               (ES) = Spain / Espania
(CL) = Chile             (EC) = Ecuador           (RU) = Russia        (SE) = Sweden
(PE) = Peru                                                                                    (NL) = Netherlands
(MX) = Mexico                                                                              (GR) = Greece

I hope that you like this suggestion. 🙂

Edited by S0und_Theif
Adding European Ship sold to Pan America Branch, Adding Siete de Agosto

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Here are the Premium Ships Suggestion

Premium Battleships and Cruisers
T5
Rio de Janeiro (BR) - BB
Sold to UK as HMS Agincourt 1913

Note: Possible sold as double bundle like Boise and Nueve de Julio

14 × 12 in (305 mm)/45 guns (7 x 2)
20 × 6 in (152 mm)/50 guns (20 x 1)
10 × 3 in (76 mm) AA guns (10 x 1)


T6
Coronel Bolognesi (PE) - CL
Originally HMS Ceylon "Crown Colony Class" (UK)

Note: Possible sold as double bundle like Boise and Nueve de Julio

Armament:
9 x 6 in (152 mm)/52 guns (3 x 3)
8 x QF 4 in (102 mm)/45 DP guns (4 x 2)
16 x QF 2 pdr (40 mm) pom-pom guns (4 x 4)
10 x 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon  guns (5 x 2)
6 x 21 inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 3)
 

T7
Almirante Latorre (CL) - CL
Originally Gota Lejon "Tre Kronor Class" (SE)

Armament:
7 × 6 in (152 mm)/53 guns (3 x 2 and 1 x 1)
20 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (5 x 4 or 10 x 2) ?
6 × 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon guns (6 x 1)
6 × torpedo tubes


Almirante Grau (PE) - CL
Originally De Ruyter "De Zeven Provincien" (NL)

Note: Before modification specs

Armament:
8 × 6 in (152 mm)/53 guns (4 x 2)
8 × 2.2 in (57 mm) AA guns (4 x 2)
8 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (4 x 2)
No Torp
 

Tamandare (BR) - CL
Originally USS St. Louis 1938 "St. Louis Class 1938" (US)

Note: Possible sold as double bundle like Boise and Nueve de Julio

Armament:
15 × 6in (152 mm)/47 gun (5 x 3)
8 × 5 in (127 mm)/38 guns (4 x 2)
16 × 1.1 in (28 mm)/75 guns (4 x 4) or 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (4 x 4)
12 × 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon cannons (12 x 1)
No Torp
 


Foot Note:
(BR) = Brazil            (CO) = Colombia        (US) = USA            (EE) = Estonia
(AR) = Argentina    (VE) = Venezuela        (UK) = UK              (ES) = Spain / Espania
(CL) = Chile             (EC) = Ecuador           (RU) = Russia        (SE) = Sweden
(PE) = Peru                                                                                   (NL) = Netherlands
(MX) = Mexico                                        

I hope that you like this suggestion. 🙂

Edited by S0und_Theif

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And finally Gran Colombia Premium Destroyers (Gran Colombia Flag, as well as their respective flags like Pan-Asia and Commonwealth ships)
Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Panama

T10
Santander (CO)
Originally USS Waldron "Allen M Summer Class" (US)

Carabobo (VE)
Originally USS Beatty "Allen M Summer Class" (US)

Presdente Eloy Alfaro (EC)
Originally USS Holder "Gearing Class" (US)

Note: Possible sold as triple bundle as Gran Colombia set with Gran Colombia Flag
Note: Allen M Summer reload time is 4 seconds. Gearing reload time is 3 seconds

Armament:
6 × 5 in (127 mm)/38 guns (3 x 2)
12 × 1.6 in (40 mm) Bofors guns (2 × 4 and 2 × 2) or 6 x 3 in (76 mm)/50 AA guns (2 x 2 and 2 x 1)
11 × 0.79 in (20 mm) Oerlikon cannons
10 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 5)

 

Foot Note:
(BR) = Brazil            (CO) = Colombia        (US) = USA            (EE) = Estonia
(AR) = Argentina    (VE) = Venezuela        (UK) = UK              (ES) = Spain / Espania
(CL) = Chile             (EC) = Ecuador           (RU) = Russia        (SE) = Sweden
(PE) = Peru                                                                                   (NL) = Netherlands
(MX) = Mexico                             

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Adding incomplete set of light cruisers for Pan-America.
Its the best I can dig up with what I have. Maybe WG have blue prints for T8 to T10 that the public do not know.


T2 Almirante Abreu (BR)

Armament: (Intended)
10 - 5 in (127 mm)/50 guns (10 x 1)
8 - 3 pdr (47 mm) guns (8 x 1)

Note: Originally built for Brazil, but not completed. Later bought by the US as USS Albany


T3 Bahia (BR)

Armament:
10 - 4.7 in (120 mm)/50 guns (10 x 1)
6 - 1.9 in (47 mm)/50 guns (6 x 1)
2 - 18.0 in (457 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 1)


T4 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input


T5 Almirante Brown (AR)

Armament:
6 - 7.5 in (190 mm)/52 guns (3 × 2)
12 - 4 in (102 mm)/45 DP guns (6 × 2)
6 - 2 pdr (40 mm) AA guns (6 x 1)
6 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 3)

Note: Like Soviet cruiser Kirov at T5, big guns but thin armor.


T6 La Argentina (AR)

Armament:
9 - 6 in (152 mm)/50 guns (3 × 2)
8 - 4 in (102 mm)/45 DP guns (4 × 2)
8 - 2 pdr (40 mm) AA guns (8 x 1)
6 - 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2 x 3)

Note: Modified Arethusa Class with 9 guns


T7 Capitan Prat (CL)

Armament:
15 - 6 in (152 mm)/47 guns (5 x 3)
8 - 5 in (130 mm)/25 DP guns (8 × 1)
16 - 40 mm (1.6 in) Bofors AA guns (4 x 4)
4 - 40 mm (1.6 in) Bofors AA guns (2 x 2)
18 - 20 mm (0.79 in) Oerlikon AA guns (18 x 1)

Note: Brooklyn class sold to Chile. Argentina and Brazil also have them,


T8 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input


T9 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input


T10 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input

 

Nation Legend:
(BR) = Brazil                (CO) = Colombia       (US) = USA              (EE) = Estonia
(AR) = Argentina        (VE) = Venezuela       (UK) = UK                (ES) = Spain / Espania
(CL) = Chile                (EC) = Ecuador           (RU) = Russia          (SE) = Sweden
(PE) = Peru                                                                                        (NL) = Netherlands
(MX) = Mexico                            

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Adding incomplete set of battleships for Pan-America.
Its the best I can dig up with what I have. Maybe WG have blue prints for T8 to T10 that the public do not know.

T3 Minas Geraes (BR)

Armament:
12 - 12 in (305 mm)/45 guns (6 × 2)
22 - 4.7 in (120 mm)/50 guns (22 x 1)
18 - 3 pdr (47 mm) guns (18 x 1)
8 - 1 pdr (37 mm) guns (8 x 1)

Note: Only 10 guns can be fired on a full broadside. 2 guns are blocked by the super structure.


T4 Rivadavia (AR)

Armament:
12 - 12 in (305 mm)/50 guns (6 x 2)
12 - 6 in (152 mm)/50 guns (12 x 1)
16 - 4 in (102 mm) guns (16 x 1)

Note: All 12 guns can be fired if positioned correctly. Like the German Kaiser Battleship


T5 Almirante Latorre (CL)

Armament:
10 - 14 in (356 mm)/45 guns (5 x 2)
16 - 6 in (152 mm)/50 guns (16 x 1)
2 - 3 in (76 mm)  guns (2 x 1)
4 - 1.9 in (47 mm) guns (4 x 1)

Note: Never completed in Chile. Sold to Britain as HMS Canada.


T6 Riachuelo (BR)

Armament:
8 - 15 in (380 mm) guns (4 x 2)
20 - 6 in (152 mm) guns (20 x 1)
10 - 2 pdr (40 mm) guns (10 x 1)

Note: Resembles QE in many ways as Brazil was impressed with the success of QE class


T7 British K2 or K3 for South American Battleship

Armament: (K2)
8 - 15 in (356 mm)/45 guns (4 x 2)
or
8 - 16 in (406 mm)/45 guns (4 x 2)

12 - 6 in (152 mm)/50  guns (6 × 2)
6 - 4.7 in (119 mm)/40 AA guns (6 × 1)
8 - 2 pdr (40 mm) /40 AA guns (8 × 1)

Armament: (K3)
9 - 15 in (356 mm)/45 guns (3 x 3)
or
9 - 16 in (406 mm)/45 guns (3 x 3)

12 - 6 in (152 mm)/50  guns (6 × 2)
6 - 4.7 in (119 mm)/40 AA guns (6 × 1)
8 - 2 pdr (40 mm) /40 AA guns (8 × 1)

Note: This is only fictional as with the success of the QE designs, Brazil, Argentina, and Chile tried to procure further developents of the class due to South American Naval Arms Race.


T8 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input


T9 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input


T10 ????

Armament:
????

Note: No Data. Need Input

 

Nation Legend:
(BR) = Brazil            (CO) = Colombia        (US) = USA             (EE) = Estonia
(AR) = Argentina    (VE) = Venezuela        (UK) = UK               (ES) = Spain / Espania
(CL) = Chile             (EC) = Ecuador           (RU) = Russia        (SE) = Sweden
(PE) = Peru                                                                                    (NL) = Netherlands
(MX) = Mexico    

Edited by S0und_Theif

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In the 1950s British shipbuilders (I forget details though) has offered a modified in-game Neptune-type AA cruiser (DP secondaries arranged in a revised, hexagonal scheme like American cruisers as well as Dmitri and Alexander) design to potential South American clients without success.

There has also been a cruiser design offered to Venezuela in the 1950s when the latter country decided to build a significant navy following an oil boom. The project envisioned a cruiser with considerable dimensions armed with 8-inch guns, 6-inch guns in triple mounts or the N5 type twin 6-inch DP mounts arranged in an AB-X scheme. The project discontinued with the collapse of the Venezuelan junta that put forward the great naval expansion project years ago.

A potential problem concerning Almirante Latorre as a T5 battleship is her lack of AA upgrades. Neither 2 single pom-poms plus 6 single 13.2-mm MGs (her configuration in 1945) nor 19 Oerlikons (after a 1950 refit) seem adequate for her tier and seems only barely adequate for T4.

Pan-American T6 to T8 battleships may be filled with Vickers-Armstrong design drafts offered to Brazil during the final days of South American dreadnought arms race. This includes Riachuelo (the finaly chosen variant, Vickers-Armstrong Design 781) for T6 (8 15-inch guns, 13.5-inch belt, 22.5kts); V-A Design 782 or 684 for T7 (former 10 15-inch guns in AB-Q-XY with Q turret facing forward, latter 8 16-inch guns) and V-A Design 685 (10 16-inch guns arranged in AB-Q-XY, it would be like squeezing a fifth turret amidships in a hull like Nagato.) And then we have to suppose some significant modernization for these ships (addition of up-to-date AA weaponry, conversion to oil-firing boilers and more efficient turbines, upgraded fire control systems etc.), not to say that the top tiers remain absent.

Edit: searched for "Rivadavia" in the NA community and came across a claim that during World War II, an Argentinean naval officer, in view of the obvious obsolescence of the Rivadavia-class dreadnought, designed (or, at least, made a detailed sheet on the demanded parameters and specifications for new battleship) a draft of new battleships that resembles contemporary Littorio-class battleships from Italy. Nothing came out from this proposal as all the major powers are heavily engaged in the World War.

Edited by Project45_Opytny
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