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Akyamarukh

[serious thread] how to balance CV spotting and fix the AA issue

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368 battles

 

there is 2 main problem in this CV rework :

1. eternal CV spotting

2. AA mechanic was crap

 

 

without further bullshit, this is my suggestion :

 

1. CV need to press F3 (or anykey) to spot enemies with 10 sec cooldown!

- aircraft pilot need to report enemy ship spotted, 10 sec is the time for pilot to report a single ship exact position

- this CV spotting have duration, DD have 7 sec, CA/CL have 20 sec, and BB/CV 40 sec

- CV need to re-spot enemy when duration of spotting expired

- when DD get spotted by any aircraft, DD get bonus 50% shell dispersion if enemy fire at DD

 

implication :

- DD wont get perma spotted, also it sacrifice a lot of CV spotting because spotting multiple enemy BB and CA is simply more worth it....

- if CV is busy doing attack, it wont bother to constantly report enemy location... thus add element of skill

- add element of realistic warfare for CV pilot

 

 

2. how AA ship should work....

>> the main idea is, skill should determine how CV vs surface sheep win againts each other.....

the AA sector need to be tweaked, and here is my suggestion :

 

CdSXaqH.png

 

 

this system same like AA sector BUT player need to manually aiming it like torpedo aiming. now it smell like AA just become manual AA. and if manual AA not turn off, it will work like there is no AA sector.

 

also for gimmick of each nation, here is suggestion :  

1. IJN have low traverse speed and bad AA => medium AA damage + slowest manual AA traverse speed

2. USN have massive AA and medium traverse speed => HIGH AA +medium manual AA traverse speed

3. French have variety AA depend on ship and FASTEST traverse speed => variety AA + Fastest traverse speed

4. GERMAN BOI   => Variety AA + medium traverse speed

5. british  => HIGHest AA + but slower traverse than USN nearly IJN level

6. Russian Bias => Variety AA + variety traverse speed

 

also each class have its own characteristic :

DD => traverse speed is fastest

CL/CA => traverse speed is vary but always faster than BB

BB => slowest traverse speed

CV => always fast traverse speed but slower than DD

 

#the AA damage and traverse speed is subject to change so i wont give a damn about it. just suggestion and picture how it should work.

#a pro player can shotdown enemy plane despite having the worst AA, the better ship AA just make shooting plane easier.....

 

kay, NOW GIVE ME BACK MY HAKURYU WG!!!!!! its still misssing!!!!

and please BUFF CV damage at T4~T8 and undo the T10 nerf -_-

 

 

 

_______________________

 

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4 minutes ago, LordTyphoon said:

Its currently balanced... 

Do you really believe that? Or is it just “balanced”.

I have no idea what I am talking about. I have not played since the last hotfix.

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Much as I loathe spreading sharky's posts, this one does have it sensible merits. Though #1 is would basically be settled with the previous system. While it wasn't the best, it was already in place and some tweaking here and there would improve on it instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Edited by dejiko_nyo

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I think there is a mechanism about AA that do not mirror surface ship engagement and that which made it unfair for surface ship under aerial attack, namely the RNG remain the same disregard ... that is not the case on surface ship engagement .. a cruiser closing in on a BB or a DD closing in on a CA face increasing barrage of fire and less dispersion whenever it moves it and the do not get immunity of long range / mid range / close range guns .. when they get into real close they can be expected to get everything thrown at them and point blank accuracy ... this should be the same for AA ( though in real world this do not actually work that way and far more complex , but for gaming sake it should be simplified and balanced for that ).

The AA should only have rage but not zoned , so any planes getting into long range will be subjected to that, any plane venture further into Medium Range will suffer both Long and Medium Range AA and any closer they are facing the might of all 3 and the RNG / Continuous damage co-efficient should increase as they close in ( which is somewhat realistic too accounting to naval gunnery of the days ).

I agree wit the OP on the spotting mechanism on its principle although the numbers might had to be tested to see how it work out .. really in real aerial scouting of the period unless you got a specialized spotter plane with Radio equipment otherwise no way you can pinpoint an enemy ship like it is now in the game and even that is not as such as we have

On the other hand I think there need to be tweak to torpedo and dive bomber numbers , some need to be buffed, some need to be adjusted and the aerial rocket, it should have a different fire mechanism applied to  wen hitting , it should deal much less damage and the fire should last only a very little while

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Beta Tester
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for AA instead of just sector. make it reinforce certain AA range. changing time will take 4 seconds, 2 with manual aa. this way you you dont have to expose your side to enemy planes.

reduce LoS of planes. they provide too much spotting. they are the only class that can perform 150+ average spotting damage just by simply doing an attack run.
also reduce the air detect ability of smaller ship like cl,ca and dd. buff concealment expert with extra concealment from air. imo instead of implementing complex system for spotting. simply reducing Los of planes and air detectability of certain ship will greatly improve DD quality of life.

as for DD they should reduce the accuracy of rockets or, increase the delay before rockets will fire. this way CV players actually has to lead father where the rockets will land and dd can have chance to dodge rocket attack.

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in Old CV, there less vision problem.

mostly because your team CV will try to restrict opponent CV spoting or  discourage air strike with their Fighters - so your poor surface ship can live few min longer.

in New CV, there is almost none of that whatsoever. the only interaction of CV player with opponent CV player were who does more damage

 

It would be nice IF. IF the Fighter can be set to guard and follow a spesific Ships - maybe like capping DD

or... if WG think normal CV player to noob for such complex thought. maybe when someone use "request aa support", AI controled Fighter will fly and guard the ship automaticly

But Since WG, even assume that normal people would be to dumb for multitasking. that wont happen

 

 

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In the end the balance not a stand aloe affair, it need to be readjusted together wit proper Radar Balance change / Mechanism fine tuning as well as damage / damage deal mechanism change .. a lot of the problem is not the actual damage and damage deal but how all the mechanism act together

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Alpha Tester
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CV is currently awesome, apart from some over powered AA.

A good DD player will know that a plane has to literally fly right over them to be spotted, so TURNS OFF THEIR AA. As per WG advice!!!.

Radar is the worse of the two evils for a DD player, NO hiding from it, even through islands, and for ranges up to 10-11kms, CV spotting good for what, 4-5kms?!.

 

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3 hours ago, Muds_Revenge said:

CV is currently awesome, apart from some over powered AA.

A good DD player will know that a plane has to literally fly right over them to be spotted, so TURNS OFF THEIR AA. As per WG advice!!!.

Radar is the worse of the two evils for a DD player, NO hiding from it, even through islands, and for ranges up to 10-11kms, CV spotting good for what, 4-5kms?!.

 

That would only delay the aerial spotting .. do not take away the fact that those can dance around the DD and the result is still waves after waves of attack upon, and it create its own problem ... if the DD is solo or detached from group, by the time its spotted, its most effective AA would not be used, instead it would most likely be the least working Close Range AA as the planes flies too and AA kick in need time too , and then its back to square one ... and with full squadron , if the DD is in a group then turning off AA simply mean you are not contributing to the AA ..

The logic of WG advice is to avoid detection but this does not work in real combat game scenario, I play DD and I know, try any different way but in the end the plane fly much faster and more nimble than DD and CV usually do not send solo squadron so you are looking at pair or trio formation overhead .. can't hide .. even in a weak AA DD .. its better to let the AA on and let those 100mm+ main gun AA start doing their work, thinning out the squadron if possible before the attack ... if you are in a weak AA DD say the RN Jervis, it does not really matte much .. cause the AA Range is pretty much almost the same as the detection range .... the AA Range out ranging the AA Range only applies to those DD using their main guns as AA too and this is the main defense .. for a DD Maneuvering is the most effective defense once spotted and even before that

No matter, whether which way doing it its still the same , Perma-Spotting , and the DD pretty much taken out of the game whether sunk or not, even if come out un-damaged, the DD need to dodge here and there and sail back and forth, left and right ... same for BB , CA and CL ... the issue on hand is CV can simply made the other team not play to any tune and the whole destroy game play matters and matters to the extent that it destroy the game for all of BB, CA, CL and DD players, DD players is the most vulnerable and CV knows that and would pound on them constant and continuous until they are sunk and since less DD are now in a game its even easier for CV to do so .. in the end the best a DD can do now is do its best to get every squadron engaged and live as long as possible to get them out of the others way ( and indeed in so may game this is what I do and I spell it out to the team so they know to move and worj theirs, seems to work most of the time )  .. and this pretty much the same for CL but CL are spotted way earlier

As the OP stated, perma-spotting and continuous harassment attacks ... this will not solve the problem even if the DD turn off AA its still the same its just for DD, those attack can be absorbed by BB and CA, but they are deadly to a DD the only time this tactic works is when the DD is in full speed sailing and trying to avoid an oblique angle flying squadron that only happen to fly by but not flying to your position and of course if in game battles that is few

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6 hours ago, Muds_Revenge said:

CV is currently awesome, apart from some over powered AA.

A good DD player will know that a plane has to literally fly right over them to be spotted, so TURNS OFF THEIR AA. As per WG advice!!!.

Radar is the worse of the two evils for a DD player, NO hiding from it, even through islands, and for ranges up to 10-11kms, CV spotting good for what, 4-5kms?!.

 

from what I read, it's clearly that you never play DD especially in match with 2 CV

even air detection is 3.5 km but when you moving at 39knot top average 30-35 for maneuvering

and plane fly 3-4 times your speed and by pass every obstacle  in game you will NEVER able to hide from it

 

you WILL get spot, focus and killed with absolute NO MEAN to counter it AT ALL!

can't run, can't hide, can't counter NO NOTHING!

WG reduce number of plane in attack squad to reduce effective against DD, but that doesn't help!

 

he attack me full 3 round of rocket, recall plane and next 30 sec fresh new squad of bomber fly toward me while I don't even have a chance to relocate myself

even with my full speed, my location still in same square on minimap and CV take no effort to find me.

if CV have 'last know position' on in minimap, no DD in game can run or hide from plane EVER

 

 

 

you know what really 'reasonable' aerial spotting range? 

in storm where air detection reduce to 0.3km

that the only way DD can survive CV plane

 

and yes, I want every DD in game to have air detection reduce 0.3 km across the board.

 

 

and so you know

I don't mind being spot by plane IF I have mean to counter it effectively, but currently NO

Edited by PGM991

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Alpha Tester
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Yes you're right, I don't play DD such as Shim atm since 080, as I've rather taken to CV play, I love it 🙂

However I DO hunt DD's with my rocket planes, at the start of any battle that shows the enemy team HAS DD's TO hunt.

80% of first 5 mins of a battle I cannot get near DD's or even spot them as they stick so close to very over powered AA ships, and there is ALWAYS a sprinkling of those through the enemy ranks.

Or, I can't spot them because I need to be within 3.5kms of them to spot them, and they are a good DD player who remains hidden.

 

Then there are those DD players who let me know I'm close to finding them because their AA activates from 5-6 kms out....or they pop smoke, or they cap early etc.

These are my favourite victims.

All that has happened is DD's are suffering from what they suffered from many patches ago, when CV's were 2 per battle anyway, and that was before radar pretty much!.

Yes, I played DD's then and I made many many comments about it.

But so far, in my illustrious career of WoWS, torpedo spam was a problem, then planes spotting, then invisible DD's, then too much radar ruining games, now back to planes again, and I see torpedo spam complaints are now on the rise again.

Welcome to the developer ever changing game meta. Roll with it, or perish to davy jones locker.

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