Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Rina_Pon

Idle talk: Kagero/Asashio a better gunboat than Benson/Kidd?

17 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Member
442 posts
5,526 battles

I've both done it and had it done to me a few times: in nominal 1-to-1 shooting engagements the IJN DDs tend to come out winning.

It always seems to play out the same way: the USN DD is overconfident, opening up and sailing in a straight line, expecting you to die quickly. Meanwhile the IJN DD dodges the floaty shells and replies with much more consistent and punishing hits. Then the US DD sees his health is nearly gone, panics and turns away ... making him an easy target for the finishing volley.

I wouldn't say a Kagero could outlast a Fletcher,  but my overall point is the IJN T8 are not just for the torps. The gun handling is good, and the shells are potent.

I've put some thought into why the firepower of the Benson/Kidd is over-rated, but haven't managed a clear answer.

The best I can come up with is that the USN DDs have to get really close to the target to take advantage of the better turret rotation and overall higher dpm. Under 5 km perhaps, the tables turn as it becomes a "knife fight" but at the more typical DD-DD combat distances of 6-7 km the description "knife fight" is no longer accurate. The effective dpm of the USN ships is great reduced because they can no longer hit reliably. I'm still trying to pin down where the boundary of knife fighting ends however.

..

I don't have Kidd, but do have Benson, Kagero, and Asashio. I like them all, but perhaps Kagero is my favorite. Premium TRB, naturally. Torpedo acceleration, since I share the captain with Asashio. (PM, LS, TA, TAE, SI, CE). This Kagero build is the most lethally efficient DD I've played.

Edited by Rina_Pon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
691 posts
5,409 battles
15 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

the floaty shells

I hate slow velocity shells. Can't hit anything beyond 10km.

 

Sorry, kinda out of topic.

Edited by Paladinum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
442 posts
5,526 battles
11 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

I hate slow velocity shells. Can't hit anything beyond 10km.

I was just looking over my stats. My pathetic Cleveland avg. damage agrees with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
691 posts
5,409 battles

There are a few things I hate when it comes to main guns in this game, but they all come with the same characteristic: slowness.

Slow shell velocity, slow turret traverse speed and slow reload.

 

IJN DDs, even the Shima line, have very good shell stats (good velocity, good accuracy, high damage, good fire chance), but their gun stats are more or less bad. Slow turret traverse speed and slow reload. That actually turns them into gun DDs in smoke or in situations where the enemy team has only a lone BB remaining and you want to farm damage if your torps can't get to that BB quickly enough. But those characteristics, coupled with their low HP pool, make them very unsuitable for DD vs DD gunfights.

However, in a gunfight, a Kagero may have the upper hand over a Benson:
+ Better shell speed (hit easier)
+ Higher damage (when it hits it hurts)
+ Almost the same HP pool

It's not recommended to build IJN torp DDs into main guns, since it's not their strength at all, even if fully built they won't shine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
174 posts
4,919 battles

Not that I'm a DD expert, but I find Kidd to be pretty ordinary, the heal is very situational. IJN gun DDs like Akizuki are tricky to fight against in general purpose US DDs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,570 posts
9,754 battles

IJN DDs can pack a pretty mean punch with their main guns, especially after the buff a few patches back.

I have been running a hybrid Asashio build and I found it has been pretty effective.

But the main weaknesses has always been their turret traverse. Catch an IJN DD off guard with his turrets facing the wrong way and he will take a lot of damage. Also he can't wasd as much without throwing his guns off target.

As for USN DDs, they excel in close range knifefights where they can put their excellent turret traverse to good use and their floaty shells aren't apparent yet. But they have to know when to disengage - they perform poorly when forced to chase enemies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,221 posts
6,075 battles

USN dd are better at knife fights. the closer the better. while ijn dd are better at mid distance where usn shell have harder time landing.

as for torpedo ijn has poor spotting range but has high alpha damage, they have lower chance of hitting since enemy can see them in the distance and react. while USN dd have better concealment with acceptable damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
617 posts
6,728 battles
19 hours ago, HMAS_Currimundi said:

In ranked, the flavour for dds seemed to be fletcher, kitikaze.  I took yugumo out and was roundly criticised for doing so.   

I took Yugumo in one or two ranked battles and found it quite good. Thing is, with concealment, you can dictate the range you engage enemy. You can easily remain hidden, spot enemy DD gunboats, let friendlies knock off half their health, then finish them off.

And with the weirdness that is the current ranked, you can make your reload faster and concealment better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
88 posts

Concealment Matters specially in ranked. Yugumo has best at t9 I recall. Also those concealment buffs added and you can make them shit in their pants. 

US DD's have good guns but that floating shells are meh. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
617 posts
6,728 battles
5 hours ago, MD047 said:

Concealment Matters specially in ranked. Yugumo has best at t9 I recall. Also those concealment buffs added and you can make them shit in their pants. 

US DD's have good guns but that floating shells are meh. 

With concealment and torpedo reload buffs in ranked, Yugumo can become very scary.

...

Wait... I have the safe 12km torpedos mounted... Yugumo can fit the type F3, they only have 8 km range, but in ranked you can get concealment down to below 4.5km. The F3’s have 104 reload, and 76 knots speed...

If you have no fear of radar or hydro, then the F3’s make this a very, very scary ship in this season’s ranked.

Edited by Grygus_Triss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,192 posts
5,617 battles

if DD Vs DD

there's no brainer that IJNDD torpedo line would lose (unless other DD are super potato)

why?

because in DD vs DD, both are spotted less than 6km away, at that distant USNDD have no problem hitting IJNDD, so it come down to who have higher ROF.

if both DD are spot by radar or plane at around 10+km away... that when IJNDD higher velocity shell come into play.

 

Edited by PGM991

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
858 posts
3,212 battles

In my asashio I only fight main guns if I HAVE to for cap contest, I don't rely on them to carry a fight.

Towards end game, they are brilliant though, pop smoke, sit in it and pound away on a BB or cruiser, get a lot of damage.

Even though its torpedoes can only hurt a BB, it's a hell of a ship, and usually underestimated by her soon to be dead foes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
264 posts
8,688 battles

Why u want gunfight benson/kidd in kagero/asashio ? WG already give u better gunboat IJN line Akizuki....

Kagero/asashio gun works if enemy DD is low health...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×