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yansuki

Why your AA sucks by Ichase

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against Potato CV at lower tier, AA are fine. but any decent cv will turn your AA into a crap.

 

potato cv.png

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image.thumb.png.89690b00ba6576c633d88809935d0df3.png

 

This was against 2 Ryujou. My Atlanta was full AA spec. Srsly, if flak is dodgeable, let me aim my AA guns.

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i tried FULL aa atlanta too. it sucks. not worth it.

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[LBAS]
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That video is disheartening to say the least.

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So... Against a skilled CV player who can dodge flak, even with a full AA build. You cannot stop the first wave unless you have multiple full AA ships.

And by skilled CV player, I simply mean a player who is not a potato.

I really don't know how to feel. On one hand, CV player should be able to cause damage, but on the other hand, surface ship player needs chance to mitigate damage. I don't understand how you are supposed to fight CVs, just sit there, set your AA sector towards them and hope they make a mistake?

That's not counter play.

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[TOX1C]
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I'd like to add an opposite view to this, if I may.  I have played a few games now (not a lot, but a few) where the team actually begins to play as a cohesive unit.  If and when this occurs then the *overlapping* fields of fire can be brutal.  

 

This was really demonstrated to me when I was hitting a CV game earlier.  Myself and another Midway were effectively blocked from achieving *anything*  by a team of, largely, t10 US cruisers.  I don't know if it was intent or accident but they managed to spread across the map enough to manage to prevent either of us achieving much.  Just couldn't get *through* them, and couldn't directly attack them.

 

Note: I am not a pro player.  People who are inclined to check my win/loss or average score on a CV please don't post back on how I'm unqualified to reply.  I'm merely saying that the AA works just fine when a team fits together well.  Besides, who'd play CVs if you could *never* get a drop off? 

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im so upset right now. CV can strike you and there's nothing you can do. even top AA cruiser like des moines cant do anything. that's with DFAA active.

my des moines got colonize by @MikuChrome audacious. it was not a fun experience. i was still having fun before this patch release, now all the fun are turn into frustration.
added the fact that WG lie to me, saying i can test the new premium cruiser irian for 7 days and some few credits and stuf on my email, but it was a BIG FAT LIE.

 

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Met one Neptune full AA

total 6 shotdown from 6-8 waves

Depends on skill CV

Edited by Onlinegamer

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49 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

I really don't know how to feel. On one hand, CV player should be able to cause damage, but on the other hand, surface ship player needs chance to mitigate damage. I don't understand how you are supposed to fight CVs, just sit there, set your AA sector towards them and hope they make a mistake?

That's not counter play.

Precisely. Hence the need for a skill-based AA system.

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@yansuki That is the 2nd game I give CV class gameplay a go.
I'm not even a CV player myself but here I am, disgusted with what I'm able to achieve by simply playing it.
You all can imagine how much more of a nightmare this can be in the hands of the already great CV player.

Once you click that "Battle" button as a surface units, you basically signed your "I wanna have a bad time" in that very match.
This CV domination is exactly how the game was 2 years ago, I still prefer that version of wows over this anyday seeing back then CV is a threat but not to this level of threat.
Back then you can grouped up and some ships can perform the AA escort role. CV player has to carefully micro their way to pick off the most vulnerable target.
Now now matter what you do, CV can get through everything with ease only think about their strikes heck they even add "Invincibility frames" during the strike.
Yes you heard that right, invincibility frame ie "i-frame" on something as threathening as strike aircrafts, don't make me start on that quick return system.
This patch screams if you can't beat em join em, why being a punching bag when you can be the puncher just pick your own CV and enjoy the world burn.

Those who love this patch either have not much knowledge about the game, simply don't care or just have this game imprisoned as "the only game on the market with naval warfare experience".
At worst some of them just have low standards and accept the mediocrity of the system.

This patch is like a big reset button splitting the current playerbase even more at the same time looking for a new group of players hoping to be larger than the current existed one.
You can also find this trend of changing the core gameplay to look for a new group of players in many other multiplayer games.

Side note regards to Audacious currently it is in testing period everything about it is subjected to change later.

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2 minutes ago, MikuChrome said:

@yansuki That is the 2nd game I give CV class gameplay a go.
I'm not even a CV player myself but here I am, disgusted with what I'm able to achieve by simply playing it.
You all can imagine how much more of a nightmare this can be in the hands of the already great CV player.

Once you click that "Battle" button as a surface units, you basically signed your "I wanna have a bad time" in that very match.
This CV domination is exactly how the game was 2 years ago, I still prefer that version of wows over this anyday seeing back then CV is a threat but not to this level of threat.
Back then you can grouped up and some ships can perform the AA escort role. CV player has to carefully micro their way to pick off the most vulnerable target.
Now now matter what you do, CV can get through everything with ease only think about their strikes heck they even add "Invincibility frames" during the strike.
Yes you heard that right, invincibility frame ie "i-frame" on something as threathening as strike aircrafts, don't make me start on that quick return system.
This patch screams if you can't beat em join em, why being a punching bag when you can be the puncher just pick your own CV and enjoy the world burn.

Those who love this patch either have not much knowledge about the game, simply don't care or just have this game imprisoned as "the only game on the market with naval warfare experience".
At worst some of them just have low standards and accept the mediocrity of the system.

This patch is like a big reset button splitting the current playerbase even more at the same time looking for a new group of players hoping to be larger than the current existed one.
You can also find this trend of changing the core gameplay to look for a new group of players in many other multiplayer games.

Side note regards to Audacious currently it is in testing period everything about it is subjected to change later.

yeah, i use to serve as AA escort back in those days too. spend my time playing as USN cruiser and only provide AA. even though i didnt get much credit and exp, i still enjoy doing it. right now. there's no point on playing as AA cruiser, your only reward is frustration.

i mostly play as bb as they have bigger HP and can survive CV strike longer. i only pray that hakuryu and new RN CV are not on enemy team.

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31 minutes ago, MikuChrome said:

Now now matter what you do, CV can get through everything with ease only think about their strikes heck they even add "Invincibility frames" during the strike.
Yes you heard that right, invincibility frame ie "i-frame" on something as threathening as strike aircrafts, don't make me start on that quick return system.

Imo it is not that planes get i-frames when conducting the strike, but rather they cannot be hit by flak.

They can still be damaged by flat AA damage, but since flat AA damage is so ridiculously low it doesn't do squat.

WG should really buff up non-flak AA instead of placing so much emphasis on flak.

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Just had a game with a div of AA spec cruisers..  Des Moine & Wooooster we stayed within 1.5km of each other.

A graf zepp dropped its payload no planes shot down. 

The tier 10 Hack invisible torps show up after they pass us.  So much for stealth firing.. bring back my blys & gremmy stealth fire.

We shot down a grand total of 8 planes.  Shot down nothing when def AA was on.

Make the AA work, I have no issue with the cv's playing how they play but make the flak and AA do damage properly.

Sick of seeing only 2 cv's per side at the 15 minute mark.

The game is broken.

Ranked is frustrating but a good option, co-op is boring and too easy. 

 

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3 hours ago, FishyPower said:

image.thumb.png.89690b00ba6576c633d88809935d0df3.png

 

This was against 2 Ryujou. My Atlanta was full AA spec. Srsly, if flak is dodgeable, let me aim my AA guns.

Something is seriously wrong with the AA system if my non-AA specced Hsienyang can down more Ryujou planes than an Atlanta... :Smile_amazed:shot-19_02.04_19_38.44-0256.thumb.jpg.5e940a775314072380c43d06fe1019a6.jpg

All it had was AA mod 1. AA is seriously screwed up right now.

 

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19 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

Something is seriously wrong with the AA system if my non-AA specced Hsienyang can down more Ryujou planes than an Atlanta... :Smile_amazed:shot-19_02.04_19_38.44-0256.thumb.jpg.5e940a775314072380c43d06fe1019a6.jpg

All it had was AA mod 1. AA is seriously screwed up right now.

 

same with my sims. i did more than 35 planes on sims. (and it was nerf). making long range guns stop shooting as it gets closer is huge BS. who ever made the design clearly has no idea how game works.


unlike other game companies. WG dont listen to its community contributors or the community. PTS are just for formalities, they didn't listen to CC and testers at all. they release these broken cv so whales can cash in fast money for higher tier and dominate for a while. then do something about it later when the outrage was out of hand.

do wg care for is players base? no. they only want players money just like most gaming companies. they knew that there's much competition when it comes to WW2 ship games. so players dont have much of a choice. they either stop playing or deal with WG BS.

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1 hour ago, Thyaliad said:

Imo it is not that planes get i-frames when conducting the strike, but rather they cannot be hit by flak.

They can still be damaged by flat AA damage, but since flat AA damage is so ridiculously low it doesn't do squat.

WG should really buff up non-flak AA instead of placing so much emphasis on flak.

I sometimes wonder if it would work if, instead of the current two sector system. They had 4 sectors at compass points, and one of those sectors had AA turned up to near instant death levels. Meaning one quarter of youyr ship would essentially be safe, and the CV would have to be careful and maneiuver to one of the 3 weaker sides.

This would allow, to an extent, positioning to protect yourself.

Its just an idea I was toying with, it could be too easily exploited by 4 ships which band together and each cover a quarter. But it would be nice to have something similar to 'angling against damage'.

Other stray thoughts were limiting range of planes from CV, so CV would have to follow fleet and push closer if it wanted to get the ships in back. But that would be more likely to make it focus on DDs and frontline ships... which would make them less likely to push.

Or limiting fuel, giving the planes a time limit in the air. But given iChase's last video, that wouldn't make much difference.

But Flak is a problem, while It's great that CV players now have a chance to attack all ships regardless of AA power, its a pity that those ships don't have the same chance to avoid it.

Balance is going to be a problem until ships and CVs have a skill vs skill system regarding AA defense.

 

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I'd like to know why WG thought it was a good idea to change all the good AA ships into average or even bad AA now? So ships I PAID for with money to have AA builds (Atlanta, Sims, Kidd) now have trash AA yet they say they cant nerf op ships like Belfast or Stalingrad?

Pretty obvious Russian bias when Moskva has better AA range than Des Moines.

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6 hours ago, Drifter083 said:

I'd like to add an opposite view to this, if I may.  I have played a few games now (not a lot, but a few) where the team actually begins to play as a cohesive unit.  If and when this occurs then the *overlapping* fields of fire can be brutal.  

 

This was really demonstrated to me when I was hitting a CV game earlier.  Myself and another Midway were effectively blocked from achieving *anything*  by a team of, largely, t10 US cruisers.  I don't know if it was intent or accident but they managed to spread across the map enough to manage to prevent either of us achieving much.  Just couldn't get *through* them, and couldn't directly attack them.

 

Note: I am not a pro player.  People who are inclined to check my win/loss or average score on a CV please don't post back on how I'm unqualified to reply.  I'm merely saying that the AA works just fine when a team fits together well.  Besides, who'd play CVs if you could *never* get a drop off? 

And I direct you to the Flying Shimakaze video. Bunching up allows for easier far drop spreads. Have you ever seen 2 ships collide and eat a full Shima torp wave? I have and it was painful to look at...

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28 minutes ago, FishyPower said:

And I direct you to the Flying Shimakaze video. Bunching up allows for easier far drop spreads. Have you ever seen 2 ships collide and eat a full Shima torp wave? I have and it was painful to look at...

To be fair though, that is only possible on the Hakuryuu. You can't really do that on the other CVs.

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Well WG's Slogan for this patch is

FLY, STRIKE, WIN!!! What would you expect? They actually wanted this to happen..

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Had a game in a full AA spec Gneisenau where I shot down 18 planes while being focused by 2 Ryujos before I was sunk.

Previously I would have shot down at least 40 when using manual AA.

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16 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

So... Against a skilled CV player who can dodge flak, even with a full AA build. You cannot stop the first wave unless you have multiple full AA ships.

And by skilled CV player, I simply mean a player who is not a potato.

I really don't know how to feel. On one hand, CV player should be able to cause damage, but on the other hand, surface ship player needs chance to mitigate damage. I don't understand how you are supposed to fight CVs, just sit there, set your AA sector towards them and hope they make a mistake?

That's not counter play.

I don't think you should be able to stop the first wave unless you have multiple AA ships.  You should be stopping the third wave or perhaps even the second by sectoring correctly.  If a CV can't get a single attack in, what's the point of them even being there?

You can mitigate damage in your surface ship, even if alone.  You sector correctly, you maneuvre in such a way as to make it more difficult for the CV to attack.  You will still take some damage, but the damage would be greatly reduced from that if you had sailed straight and not sectored.

You do have counter play.

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I was in my Neptune in a match last night. The enemy team had 2 Hakuryu. In an attack, I saw my AA did a 11k damage burst (mostly 1k bursts throughout the match) and immediately I scored 4 plane kills.

Was that RNG or was that the CV's bad play moment?

 

And, would you rather keep the long-ranged AA as avoidable flak bursts, or turn them into another constant AA aura?

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58 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

You can mitigate damage in your surface ship, even if alone.  You sector correctly, you maneuvre in such a way as to make it more difficult for the CV to attack.  You will still take some damage, but the damage would be greatly reduced from that if you had sailed straight and not sectored.

You do have counter play.

There is no counter play in the sense that you aren't actively countering the planes.

If I shoot down a bunch of your planes, it is not because I outplayed you or anything, but rather I got lucky with RNG. Likewise, you are certainly not going to think that I am a real tough guy who shot down all your planes, because that was all RNG, not me.

1 hour ago, Paladinum said:

And, would you rather keep the long-ranged AA as avoidable flak bursts, or turn them into another constant AA aura?

Personally I would just buff the unavoidable damage component of AA while the flak damage can be toned down so it doesn't wipe out the entire squadron if you get unlucky. It should make AA be less all-or-nothing in general.

This what WG is planning to do in the upcoming hotfix anyway so we shall see how that goes. :fish_book:

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