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MeglaGnome

CV rework day 1 observations

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5 hours ago, Rina_Pon said:

Giving it a think-over, the 8.0 changes put the game in a pretty good place. 

The only real issue right now is everyone is wanting to try playing CVs. Every game is 2x2 CV, so it's "watch the skies" all game, every game. And also a lot of people playing CVs right now are just trying them out, the aren't really interested in helping the team win. All that should all settle out in a couple of weeks.

DD's have a very different role in a 2x2 CV game. You have to you play defensively and, if you aren't an AA DD like Fletcher, stay close to supports. But it's far from impossible: I survived against two Midways in my Fletcher, shot down a dozen aircraft, generally made myself useful the entire game. I don't see what people complaining about CLs have with it either: Cleveland shreds aircraft. Just stay far enough back that you don't need to be in concealment.

Oddly the least-good experience I had was in Bayern. Constantly uptiered by the CVs in game, my AA didn't shoot down many aircraft, and even though the torp waves only had 2-3 aircraft and the torps did minimal damage I was constantly getting hit in wave after wave with nothing I could do about it.

 

No ; it is a problem .. I put in some more games last night and this morning in my DD and CL and there is a problem , made it problems ... inconsistency in AA and also Planes .. I can have the same kind of attack plane rocket me and do 3.6K damage on on one and then the next had what 230 .. then of course basic AA and even AA with module mod.1 mounted still will not kill and do not drive away aerial attack for light force and even for many CA and BB

I had games with 1 CV, 2 CV, 3CV,a and even 3 and 4 .. the problem is not only the CV its the CV combined with what's on roster of a fleet .. picture this you are the only DD on the roster but there is 3 CV and 3 Radar ship on the roster per team and you happen to be Soviet DD; Yeah I was in one of these, end up the best effort I can do is use the speed to kamikaze the CV ( they were all cluster together ) ; force them to use all their effort on me so the team can go cap and our CV can focus fire their surface ships. At least I got an applause and a pat on the back by the teammates and the did not fail me, we did get a victory but is this how it really should be.

Yeah you are right the part that one can be constantly harassed over and over again in very short time span and yet again and again and again is very annoying for BB but this is down right killing and murder for DD and CL .. and there is no way to counter since DD and CL had no effective AA even when pairing ( did try DD=CL pair CL=CL pair, DD Pair, none work ) one have to had almost exclusively AA Build to have any chance of really repelling and then since even if one plane is alive the spotting still on and therr lies the big issue, Perma-spotting and this does not change whether its just 1 CV or 5 CV for the light force ... and now you add Radar ( and Radar going to be buffed soon when surface torp are to be nerfed ). And defensively these light and fast ships rely on speed, dodging and maneuvering to avoid incoming fire but now the game made it so that they cannot targe primary incoming ( say torp plane ) and because they are all running turning they have to keep managing AA sector .. adding to a workload that is already an overwork situation  

Pls someone tell me how a DD or CL with their limited range and now no concealment to able to actually function their duty when needing to stay within AA bubble which mean literally next to their BB and CA which is of course way out from the front and cap zone and yet when you are still being spotted even though your concealment should allow otherwise. And BTW when and if you got a short , usually very short time span when there is no air elements around there's the Radar.

In short WG need to fix the perma spotting , this is already a big issue when they start first with Hydro ( on top tier with long range ones ), Radar, more Radars, Long duration Radars and Long Range Radars, now to be even more long Range and even longer duration soon and thrown in CV , with planes that light force cannot kill, cannot avoid .. and this is disaster for any Team , any composition but its Armageddon for any light force. The only good side of this is now it force all big guns BB and CA not to sit at the back and PUS as a group with the light force cause that is the only way to go, but if light force need this and cannot go solo / pair to vanguard then why bother. Concealment based gameplay is totally ruined and light force is based on that. And the ineffective AA .. it should not be that ever ship, any ship need to heavily invest in AA upgrade and skill to even start to made some inroad with AA and nw even with that yo cannot effectively do AA, even a top tier US DD or CL heavily invested in AA cannot go forth the perma spotting is there, yeah they can kill some birds, the figure might be beautiful, I've try .. but you are still perma spotted , still being pounded by the squadron over and over again and a the same time rest assure that enemy surface ship will focus and cross fire upon you

Even one CV on a team made this and this is breaking a key game element and breaking al game play for all light force so yes this is a problem .. 

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5 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

More CVs in match was always going to change meta, only thing is now we are all new to the mechanics, starting on a somewhat even footing.

Well, hopefully this is only for testing purposes and not permanent. They really need to limit CVs per side as 1 each team...

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[TF44]
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1 hour ago, Sparcie said:

WG seem to have gotten one thing balanced. They've annoyed everyone equally

Usually a sign of balanced introduction right 🙂 This is the first day of a major change to mechanics. Changes will be made to rebalance and fix inevitable unforseen exploits that emerge.

So it seems the main issues are:

1. HIgh numbers of CVs per random matches = DDs and CLs more vulnerable due to permo spot.

2. HIgh numbers of CVs per random matches = DDs and CLs more vulnerable due rocket attacks which affect them more.

3. CV players complaining that their damage per match is reduced.

4. DD players in particular are overwoked due to managing AA sectors on top of everything else.

5. CV players believe certain ships constantly wipe out squads before attacks complete, particularly dive bombers.

My 2 cents:

1. The world has not ended. Sometime you have to take a back step to go forwards again.

2. WG should have restricted CVs to one per side in randoms. This would greatly reduce perma-spot issues and over-worked and harrassed DD drivers and let things settle down a bit easier with less influnce from CVs. The expectation would be salt from CV drivers having to wait extended periods for matches.

3. Seasoned salty CV drivers expect to be unicums from first match or even totally OP. The new game mechanics (like all WoW play) requires mastery of many subtle factors.

4. The expectation was that all ships would behave comparitively the same with respect to AA. This should settle down in the coming few weeks and months.

5. There seems to be a wider gap between the have and have nots with regards to AA defence. Again, this should settle down in the coming few weeks and months which will probably involve gerneral ship rebalancing.

6. There potentially may be an issue whereby unicum CV drivers will not be rewarded for highly skilled play, and the new flooding mechanics will affect this even more. WG will have to carefully balance this by perhaps changing the torpedo and bomb damage mechanics to reward skillful play more for aircraft.

On another note, Irian seems to be quite a nice ship, maybe a little better artillery compared to Kutuzov but minus smoke.

The scene at the Wargaming.net dev studio after a botched mail delivery this morning

maxsalt.jpg

Edited by scottme

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15 minutes ago, ahwai82 said:

apart from the time to change side could be more intuitive as well like having 2 hotkeys so we can switch side, now have to press o then mouse over add with need to maneuver is quite cumbersome 

that too. not to mention the hot key was on the other side of the keyboard. there should be a hotkey 2 hotkey for starboard and port side reinforcement.

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3 minutes ago, yansuki said:

that too. not to mention the hot key was on the other side of the keyboard. there should be a hotkey 2 hotkey for starboard and port side reinforcement.

You can change the key assigned to it you know, I changed mine to "G" for this reason. 

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20 hours ago, Mister_Teatime said:

I'm trying to like it. But some of the changes have been too much. 

For example:

My Texas is now anaemic against planes. 3.5km medium bubble, no long range bubble > that's with a 19point captain and all AA upgrades. I played against two t5 carriers and shot 8 down. 

Even worse is Groz. 

WIth 19 point captain (all aa skills except manual AA) and upgrades, I shot down a single Saipan torp bomber, with DFAA active, and not one single dive bomber. 

I just don't get it. Previously these ships were unique due to strong AA, and had other drawbacks (texas has no spotter plane; groz is a fat cow that eats pens from across the map). 

I kinda disappointed by this. When the only T10 AA DD, with DFAA active, can't shoot down a single T8 dive bomber, something seems broken to me. 

Edit: had a 2-cv game with Montana . . . 3 planes shot down; this is total BS

Yes game is usless

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I don't know about you guys but

shimakaze with 20km torp are work best in current meta.

few DD means that few ship to spot those torp, and current plane can't spot torp either.

and CV force many ship to move in group perfect to throw 15 torpedoes in and with 20km range I don't even have to leave my team AA cover. 

Spoiler


... it wont' help you win though LOL

shot-19_02.01_14_25.12-0047.thumb.jpg.a6e7aed6422b923bd93e8ad81db7e079.jpgshot-19_02.01_15_57.56-0842.thumb.jpg.c1fb63b95fd8cfb06867b603e59cb5dd.jpg

 

 

Edited by PGM991

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12 minutes ago, PGM991 said:

I don't know about you guys but

shimakaze with 20km torp are work best in current meta.

few DD means that few ship to spot those torp, and current plane can't spot torp either.

and CV force many ship to move in group perfect to throw 15 torpedoes in and with 20km range I don't even have to leave my team AA cover. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

... it wont' help you win though LOL

shot-19_02.01_14_25.12-0047.thumb.jpg.a6e7aed6422b923bd93e8ad81db7e079.jpgshot-19_02.01_15_57.56-0842.thumb.jpg.c1fb63b95fd8cfb06867b603e59cb5dd.jpg

 

 

 

Yeah but only Shima and Ashashio had this range , may be we should have all DD torp range and reload drastically buffed

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14 hours ago, PGM991 said:

wow... even notser have a hard time in DD...

 

I don't understand why we give one ship type so much power over another ship type. Where's counter-play? And don't say "stay with team". Then there would be no capping, BBs CAs & CLs would have to escort DD into cap and stack AA to keep DD from being spotted while capping.

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7 minutes ago, Propieguy said:

CV game will be good if it can full strike like RTS version 

 

This is actually a very good suggestion... instead of going again and again, make the squadron size 4/6 and let them drop all at once. Or maybe make wave size 2. Right now, trying to use more than 2 waves just doesn't work as the continuous dmg stacks up

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[SIBYL]
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Looks like the British AA setup is better in general. The USN AA setup is weaker in comparison outside of high tier USN BBs. My Belfast and Duke of York are both shooting down more planes than my Atlanta on average. 

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[1AN-E]
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Well sorry the game has lost it for me, cannot use a DD, Battleships are soft targets and even AA Cruisers get eaten up.  Off to find something else.

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23 minutes ago, CCloak said:

Looks like the British AA setup is better in general. The USN AA setup is weaker in comparison outside of high tier USN BBs. My Belfast and Duke of York are both shooting down more planes than my Atlanta on average. 

Weird. One of the defining traits of the US Tech Tree was its strong AA suite compared to other lines. 

Why would they nerf the lower tiers? Even the US ships of higher tiers have a feeling of weaker AA, despite being specifically spec'ed for Anti-Air.


I must admit, I feel...weird with this update. Sure, I can understand the development team with what they are trying to do, but the scales seemed...off. I don't know, maybe I feel like pre-8.0 have power balance between all four classes. Maybe it's just me.

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Attack with niddles, defend with coin size shields, damage little bit, prolong slow death, keep the fighting on, you are all gradiators who fight to keep them entertained.

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5 hours ago, Alaska22 said:

Well sorry the game has lost it for me, cannot use a DD, Battleships are soft targets and even AA Cruisers get eaten up.  Off to find something else.

It's a lot worse for BBs having large superstructures/low top speed. 

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[CCTV8]
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Seems like 99% of the feed back across all forums around the world is Negative. Regarding to both sides whether your playing a CV or not, the experience is terrible. Noticed that DDs are now scarce and only see them like 1 in 5games and usually only 1 a side. The tactic is everyone to cluster up and move as 1 unit to survive.

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[CCTV8]
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Have not had a game without a CV today. AA equipping my ships to combat CV and entire team huddle up together and push as one is the only way to win. Anyone alone will get spotted and be targeted.Just had 1 game in the Musashi and im an only below average player and came 1st with 160k damage and 5 citadels and 4 kills. Why, cos everyone is spotted across the entire map lol. So you can imagine a really good player will do some serious damage. So the moral is everyone play CV or BB and shoot from distance. Everything else is cannon fodder. =P

Edited by AxEyBoI

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Day 2 and my games are still choke full of CV and basically its everybody against the planes .. all light force are over worked ..

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[ANZAC]
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Hey WG hope you are happy with all the negative comments, DDS now suck big time blobs of ships everywhere and now you will have to call the game world of Aircraft Carriers cause that's all you are going to end up with in this game, such a lot of work to piss off a lot of people who ever thought this was a good idea needs to have a serious look at them selves and the massive amount of negative feed back you are getting, don't put your head in the sand either and hope it all goes away cause if you don't all you will have left is a cv player base. You have pissed of the majority of players did you really wont that.   

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For the community's knowledge.

 

Played a game in my Ibuki, Captain not spec for aa and no aa mod on and forgot to switch hydro for DF.

Actively used aa buff (o key) and fighter plane. Could not defend my self from lower tier cv, only managed 3 plane kills all match. Seems right for Ibuki, as this is not a change for me from before patch. 

 

Played a game with my Buffalo, 1 aa skill chosen, BFT, no aa mod, and had DF along with Radar.

Was a good game, helped to defend team mates and got 20+ plane kills. Did I stop attacks cold? No, but I hurt the cv player (T8 again) so badly that  he only got 1 maybe 2 strikes off before all planes dead from combined aa. 

 

AA works ok if you know about changes. 

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