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MeglaGnome

CV rework day 1 observations

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18 minutes ago, Commander_GALEN said:

Low tier CV planes are hard to control and weak
its not the player, its the CV plane stats and gameplay

They are weak, specially Ranger but to be fair, most people are playing them wrong

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All right. I tried 3 games with 3 ships: RJ, Shoukaku, and Kaga

My RJ got in T V-VII match. I did 60k dmg which isn't that good. My RJ in T V-VII match usually do 70-90K dmg.

Shoukaku got in T VII-IX room match. Enemy team had Atlanta, Buffalo, and Baltimore. My planes can't fly near Atlanta like before. I barely do any dmg (apart from torpedoing Izumo)

Third game with Kaga in T VIII-X match.....I can't do any thing.

The gameplay is just....no for me. It gives no excitement and joy. Yes, I complained when I got in a match with enemy full of AA but I still enjoyed the agony(?). This? This is not fun at all.

I plan to try Hakuryu tomorrow. People said T X CVs are gods. Will see what I can do with them.

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After circa 20 games played this afternoon+night,this is a conclusion:after CV's remake,it basically completely replaced DDs,make all DDs useless in battle already,especially in high tier battles.(Yeah,0.7.12 is the last days for shimakaze players,maybe also asashio players.Don't purchase asashio in current situation.)

In the old version battle system of CV,they might can play some part of role of DDs,some highly experienced player might have chance to kill DDs very quickly,but first it need time to practice,second it is hard to do such thing,and in the very end,experienced DD players can also avoid been killed in a single wave of attack.AND THE NEXT WAVE OF ATTACK WILL BE TAKE PLACE IN NO LESS THAN TWO OR THREE MINUTES!!!!!Which means by then you might already finished the cap,friendly CV fighters could come to help,or cruisers nearby could come to help you in time.If you survived the second wave of attack,basically enemy CV will just leave you alone.

BUT in current version,enemy CV could launch 3 to 4 attack in 2 minutes if you don't have any AA to deal with them.AND in this situation,what could a DD player do?

1:Ask friendly CV to send some fighters.Sorry,in this version friendly CVs can't send any fighters,cuz they don't have any.

2:Go for a friendly CL/CA for help.Which means you can't spot,can't cap,and can't torp——torpedo range is very limited.And once you droped them,they are very easily been spot by enemy CV.

3:Ask a friendly CL/CA come to help.But because the concealment of all ships except DDs have been nerfed,so they might simply refuse to come and get killed by enemy BBs.

4:Smoke and cap.And enemy CV droped waves of torpedo in to the smoke,and you are killed.

5:Move and cap.And enemy CV torp you/bomb you,with enemy CLs fire at you,and your HP bar vanished.

As you can see,in current version,DDs have no options except hide in friendly AA fire range and do nothing or go spot and cap and die fast.

SO in the very end I'll give a conclusion to the CV remake,it successfully make the CVs playable for most players(but maybe not really very entertaining,and it might be a little bit hard to learn in the start),AND also successfully deleted all the reason DDs should exist in this game.So nice work WG,successfully give CV reasons to exist by taking away DDs'.I' sure you guys really should start working on DD remake right now.

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1 hour ago, Rina_Pon said:

Just came back from a 4x Midway random battle.

For a non-CV point of view, it was surprisingly OK. Torp damage seems to have been seriously nerfed, so you can endure a fair beating. AA seems to do it's thing. I miss the click focus fire. Sector reinforcement is OK I guess. I like the new AA graphics and sound effects.

My impression based on one evening is CVs seem to have been nerfed. For all the planes flying about the net impact seems to be a lot less. DDs seem to have a rough time of it, what with rockets and all. In general I find the rework to be a less radical change than I expected.

If it gets people playing CVs more, I suppose its all for the best. My concern is that CV gameplay will prove uninteresing long term, and even fewer people will play them than before.

 

But in the mean time all DD and CL player seriously considering stop playing at all .. when one will be always perma spotted, and having no real defense of any real AA that kills and yet more workload needing always to turn, speedup, slow down, dodge and yet manage that AA sector ... god know why one want to play a DD any more. At least I am seriously thinking stopping playing DD and CL once I had run my test trial .. its just not worth it handing myself on a plate to others

Edited by Mechfori

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11 hours ago, MeglaGnome said:

 

d) Yubari is not a troll build as far as I can tell, even with the surprise DFAA at T4. The long range bubble is so weak, and the short range is so short.

 

The definitive AA troll build:
shot-19_01.31_14_36.24-0695.thumb.jpg.03c8f9d6eb929631b52eb02aba755abb.jpg

 

First game since patch.

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34 minutes ago, Will_Lee01 said:

...

BUT in current version,enemy CV could launch 3 to 4 attack in 2 minutes if you don't have any AA to deal with them.AND in this situation,what could a DD player do?

....

SO in the very end I'll give a conclusion to the CV remake,it successfully make the CVs playable for most players(but maybe not really very entertaining,and it might be a little bit hard to learn in the start),AND also successfully deleted all the reason DDs should exist in this game.So nice work WG,successfully give CV reasons to exist by taking away DDs'.I' sure you guys really should start working on DD remake right now.

 

Make that you need to be a heavy AA build to be ale to stand a chance , only a chance to survive, cause not you will get modules constantly knocked out by the rocket wielding attack planes, and you need to dodge torps, and you need to fight fire  from bombs and then you have to keep sailing, dodging incoming and trying to manage AA sector all the same time and yeah you will be cross fired upon by enemy surface ships at the same time ... even a CL could be killed in that 2 minute or so .. I can vision Shimakaze captains switching back to their stock 20K torp 

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6 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

 

Make that you need to be a heavy AA build to be ale to stand a chance , only a chance to survive, cause not you will get modules constantly knocked out by the rocket wielding attack planes, and you need to dodge torps, and you need to fight fire  from bombs and then you have to keep sailing, dodging incoming and trying to manage AA sector all the same time and yeah you will be cross fired upon by enemy surface ships at the same time ... even a CL could be killed in that 2 minute or so .. I can vision Shimakaze captains switching back to their stock 20K torp 

Yep,quite accurate.That's exactly what high tier IJN DDs players are facing now.

Don't worry,I'm sure WG started their DD remake right now already lol.

Edited by Will_Lee01

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I find it rather amusing that so many are bemoaning the deaths of DD's and CL's based on 'permaspotting' and 'lack of AA'

But....

These units had the same problem against CV's pre 0.8.0, just that there were far fewer CV's in play to make these drawbacks so obvious

And I will also say that I have had reasonable games in these now 'unplayable' ships: such as a Shimakaze which survived her battle (and even managed to shoot down 9 of the Hakuryu's planes) and a Z-23 which also survived while shooting down 6 same-tiered planes - neither one had any AA improvements whatsoever.

I wonder if the CV drivers who have to face same or higher tiered flak walls agree with how easy it is to kill DD's and CL's

Edited by Mykhal

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1 minute ago, Mykhal said:

I find it rather amusing that so many are bemoaning the deaths of DD's and CL's based on 'permaspotting' and 'lack of AA'

But....

These units had the same problem against CV's pre 0.8.0, just that there were far fewer CV's in play to make these drawbacks so obvious

And I will also say that I have had reasonable games in these now 'unplayable' ships: such as a Shimakaze which survived her battle (and even managed to shoot down 9 of the Hakuryu's planes and a Z-23 which also survived while shooting down 6 same-tiered planes - neither one had any AA improvements whatsoever.

I onder if the CV drivers who have to face same or higher tiered flak walls agree with how easy it is to kill DD's and CL's

Pre 0.8.0 if you want to delete DDs or CLs lack of AA with CVs you need quite a lot of practice and very accurate manuver,so yes,if I've been deleted by these guys I have absolute no problem at all(except blaming friendly CV part),so actually CVs was balanced with a very high learning cost.If you can't make sure you can delete a DD,your first wave of attack actually have been wasted,and next attack wave will need circa 2 to 3 minutes to reload.

Now is a completely different story.You'll have mutiple chance in a single wave of attack,if you failed,it's fine,next wave of attack will be ready in a minute.

DD remake plz.

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So.....you are OK with being 1-shoted by a rarer experienced CV driver (although I never found scissoring a ship with 2 TB squads particularly difficult), but not sunk by a more average CV driver who might get multiple runs at you but is not likely to sink you with those initial runs. He needs to bring in the second wave, maybe a third......perhaps a forth.....

Besides, I thought the problem was being perma-spotted and sunk by other surface ships.

Personally I still find radar spam a far bigger threat that any aircraft

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Just limit no. of CV to one per game and fix that non working AA will do the game fine ... it does not matter that whether its easy or hard for up tier / under tier CV and vice versa for DD .. when WG decide how the attack / torp / bomber function and that the can be regen and the way they can keep it on and on for that long over an area they ave to give the other side equal good AA to deal with it. Right now that AA is not there and the result is for everyone needing to stay in tight group to even able to have enough AA to start seeing some kill and yet this still leave squadron alive and perma spot. So what's the point of concealment any more and if that is the case all DD / CL lost their function by default of unable to gun forward.

I am sure there are games DD come out fine and I do want to trial more but so far the majority of players, not only DD players had report this AA not really functional and the plane keep alive and perma spot issue. So in the end statistically and factually its hown its breaking game play to the point where a certain type of sip is render almost useless, and to be frank Radar need nerfing alright or at least the game need to limit the no of radar per side

Edited by Mechfori

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4 minutes ago, Mykhal said:

So.....you are OK with being 1-shoted by a rarer experienced CV driver (although I never found scissoring a ship with 2 TB squads particularly difficult), but not sunk by a more average CV driver who might get multiple runs at you but is not likely to sink you with those initial runs. He needs to bring in the second wave, maybe a third......perhaps a forth.....

Besides, I thought the problem was being perma-spotted and sunk by other surface ships.

Personally I still find radar spam a far bigger threat that any aircraft

No,scissoring a ship with 2 TB squads is no big deal,and also,as a DD player,I can dodge that easily(most part of those).

scissoring a ship with 3TB squads and 2 DB squads and at the same time deal with friendly CV's FT squads come to help me,on the other hand,is a different story.

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Game is in a trash state. 1-2 CV every game, 80% of game time spotted regardless of ship type. Concealment does not exist. In order to improve on CV gameplay they have made the game less enjoyable for all players who play CV and Dont. My funding has ceased.

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I change my mind when patch 8.0 come alive, I want to scrap my CV, but I still love them.. so maybe I'll keep time little bit longer.. the new AA system is so damn suck... it maybe ok with old gameplay but not with this new gameplay, I even can't get closer to ship like Des Monies, Worcester, or minotaur without using my repair consumable. you want me to destroy their AA first? how could I destroy their AA when my squadron even can't get closer.... and also AP bom on IJN is useless,, soo useless, maybe it's good if you play it on low tier but not in high tier.. BB have thicker deck armor who will reduce AP bom dmg, and they want us to drop in on CA? who tear my plane from afar? are you kidding me??

Edited by Corsair_Zero

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50 minutes ago, Corsair_Zero said:

I change my mind when patch 8.0 come alive, I want to scrap my CV, but I still love them.. so maybe I'll keep time little bit longer.. the new AA system is so damn suck... it maybe ok with old gameplay but not with this new gameplay, I even can't get closer to ship like Des Monies, Worcester, or minotaur without using my repair consumable. you want me to destroy their AA first? how could I destroy their AA when my squadron even can't get closer.... and also AP bom on IJN is useless,, soo useless, maybe it's good if you play it on low tier but not in high tier.. BB have thicker deck armor who will reduce AP bom dmg, and they want us to drop in on CA? who tear my plane from afar? are you kidding me??

The AP bomb is not useless, the dive bomber Sux. You cant get close to do bombing anyone....

Edited by Akyamarukh

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Giving it a think-over, the 8.0 changes put the game in a pretty good place. 

The only real issue right now is everyone is wanting to try playing CVs. Every game is 2x2 CV, so it's "watch the skies" all game, every game. And also a lot of people playing CVs right now are just trying them out, the aren't really interested in helping the team win. All that should all settle out in a couple of weeks.

DD's have a very different role in a 2x2 CV game. You have to you play defensively and, if you aren't an AA DD like Fletcher, stay close to supports. But it's far from impossible: I survived against two Midways in my Fletcher, shot down a dozen aircraft, generally made myself useful the entire game. I don't see what people complaining about CLs have with it either: Cleveland shreds aircraft. Just stay far enough back that you don't need to be in concealment.

Oddly the least-good experience I had was in Bayern. Constantly uptiered by the CVs in game, my AA didn't shoot down many aircraft, and even though the torp waves only had 2-3 aircraft and the torps did minimal damage I was constantly getting hit in wave after wave with nothing I could do about it.

 

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I took out the Langley for a quick spin in co op last night just to see what it was like;

From someone who didn't play the PT or anything I found it challenging to play, but more immersive and more fun than the old system. 

My dive bombing & torp attacks need heaps of work but was ok with the damage received in turn. I felt the AA was balanced enough at that level as I could press a couple of attacks before being wiped out.

Overall it was fun in the context of low tier co op, but the true test will be in randoms at higher tiers...

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5 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

Giving it a think-over, the 8.0 changes put the game in a pretty good place. 

The only real issue right now is everyone is wanting to try playing CVs. Every game is 2x2 CV, so it's "watch the skies" all game, every game. And also a lot of people playing CVs right now are just trying them out, the aren't really interested in helping the team win. All that should all settle out in a couple of weeks.

DD's have a very different role in a 2x2 CV game. You have to you play defensively and, if you aren't an AA DD like Fletcher, stay close to supports. But it's far from impossible: I survived against two Midways in my Fletcher, shot down a dozen aircraft, generally made myself useful the entire game. I don't see what people complaining about CLs have with it either: Cleveland shreds aircraft. Just stay far enough back that you don't need to be in concealment.

Oddly the least-good experience I had was in Bayern. Constantly uptiered by the CVs in game, my AA didn't shoot down many aircraft, and even though the torp waves only had 2-3 aircraft and the torps did minimal damage I was constantly getting hit in wave after wave with nothing I could do about it.

 

Nice to see some more positive feedback. My iPad was corroding due to all the salt.

I find it funny that everyone expects to be good, to adapt to the changes right away.

1. It’s still essentially a test, it’s just on the live server. There will be more balance adjustments

2. It will likely take more than a dozen games or so to master the new mechanics, until then we are all basically noobs.

3. As with any new release, there is a period of adjustment until the server calms down and thing settle. We really can’t expect to have a good view until a few weeks down the track.

More CVs in match was always going to change meta, only thing is now we are all new to the mechanics, starting on a somewhat even footing.

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19 hours ago, Soloun said:

I've only got a few days of premium left so not a huge loss but I was wondering if there is anywhere I can apply for a refund for all my premium ships and premium time?

This isn't what I bought into closed beta to play, I'd like to know if there will be a money back offer since the very nature of the game is now changed beyond recognition? 

Perhaps I'm over reacting? All I know is last night I enjoyed playing, even with the losses, tonight 1 game and I'm good thanks 🙂 Not really interested in being fodder for peoples planes, as a ship only player I honestly feel like I'm being grief ed by the CV players.

Yes I agree if they offer a refund to CV players then they must also offer a refund to premium time players and those that have spent $100's or more on Premium ships. 

Edited by MrHoy_11

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1 hour ago, Grygus_Triss said:

I find it funny that everyone expects to be good, to adapt to the changes right away.

I didn't expect to be this bad.

It really looked like WG have No professional game tester but rely solely by the user community as testers.

Edited by tsuenwan

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I think part of the issue is the entire server player base has gone full retard. We all know you should never go full retard. It's like the whole player base yelled Leeroy Jenkins all at once.

As CVs I've played the T4 and T6.

T4 CVs can do consistent damage but find it hard to sink ships. You can focus on a single BB, repeatedly striking them the whole game and they'll survive to the end of the battle. This is most evident if you play co-op and the only human players are CV's, generally the enemy bots win because you can't sink even the bots and that leaves them with an advantage of several BBs over your team.

T6 CVs have some teeth, but regularly end up fighting in T8 battles where they might as well not launch planes at all. The AA from T8's are so strong and un-dodge-able that you basically can expect to do no damage at all. none. If you're lucky and end up in a T6 battle things are much more playable, but we all know that T6 ships end up playing against T8's the majority of the time. Playing these CVs feels like a horrific waste of time that isn't fun at all.

I don't have T8 or T10 CVs, but just judging from what the PT was like they will be different experiences in and of themselves. But as things are with the T6 ones I won't be grinding to get any of them. T6 is too painful to play.

 

Surface ships have had their AA changed so much that any expectations from before should be thrown out the window.

Bismarck as an example is actually stronger against planes now than before. Yamato as another is significantly weaker against planes than many T9 BBs.

In general if you use the AA sector boost and dodge as best you can you will shoot down some planes and dodge some of the attack. But because the planes linger longer you'll be continuously attacked  for quite a while which can be very draining. You might get stuck with multiple DOTs and you won't be able to effectively combat surface forces whilst the planes are attacking. concealment also basically means little as planes flying everywhere basically perma spot many ships. They won't necessarily sink you, so you have to go through it all again when they return in a short while.

 

WG seem to have gotten one thing balanced. They've annoyed everyone equally

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reinforce sector is shit for larger ship like CA and BB. not only it takes forever for them to change from one side. (unlike 4sec to dd) smart battleship can exploit bb, ca trying to face one side to the incoming plane and punish them with heavy damage.

basically you have to pick your poison, get cit by bb or cit by ap bombs or eat tonnes of torpedo.

suggestion make it faster around 6 second with manual aa.

 

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8 minutes ago, yansuki said:

reinforce sector is shit for larger ship like CA and BB. not only it takes forever for them to change from one side. (unlike 4sec to dd) smart battleship can exploit bb, ca trying to face one side to the incoming plane and punish them with heavy damage.

basically you have to pick your poison, get cit by bb or cit by ap bombs or eat tonnes of torpedo.

suggestion make it faster around 6 second with manual aa.

 

apart from the time to change side could be more intuitive as well like having 2 hotkeys so we can switch side, now have to press o then mouse over add with need to maneuver is quite cumbersome 

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