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9mm1n

It's not a feature, it's a bug. [concealment change 0.8.0] [Poll added]

Poll regarding detection debuff mechanism. Please read post for details  

51 members have voted

  1. 1. Did you thought "break LoS- reset detection" was a "bug"

    • Yes, it's obvious that the debuff mechanics was faulty in recent patches.
    • No, I've always thought the debuff mechanics change was a feature.
  2. 2. Would you like to keep the current concealment debuff mechanics or revert back to the old mechanics as WG intends to with 0.8.0?

    • Current mechanic as in 0.7.12 (Debuff ends once line of sight is broken)
    • Old mechanic as in 0.8.0(Debuff stays for full 20 sec duration regardless of line of sight loss)

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Yes, you read the title right. No, I didn't get the software developers meme wrong. Yes, doomsday is upon us.

 

In the impending patch wargaming is going to fix a "current feature" as a "bug"; or rather, fixes a "bug" to a feature. I'm not sure

"How?" you may ask. Well, here's what Saint Petersburg is gracing us with upon the update, closing into us in 16 hours or so

  •  
Quote

 

  • Fixed an issue which immediately removed a detectability penalty applied to a ship after firing its main guns if the ship was not in the target's line of sight. In Update 0.8.0, the penalty will work for 20 seconds irrespective of whether the target enemy sees the firing ship or not.

 

Source: 0.8.0 Patch note: https://worldofwarships.asia/en/news/game-updates/update-080-takeoff/  scroll down to second bullet point of section "Other Changes and Improvements

 

In other words, breaking LoS in this patch after firing your guns WILLNOT reset your detection range from full debuff (as in your maximum firing range) to your base detection. No matter what happens, any ship will have the full 20 second concealment penalty for firing your guns, even if you break visual contact by, for example, sailing behind an island, popping a smoke or killing the enemyships with in your concealment range. 

 

As demonstrated in this video, the "bugged" mechanics (0:00) and "fixed" mechanics (starting 0:25) has dramatically different behavior to the player's detection area once  visual contact is broken.

 

This is going to massively, and negatively, impact every single ship that has a maingun, especially for lightcruisers and destroyers, whose survivability relies on expert mastery of landscape and LoS control, just as the community grow familiar to using fire-concealment with landscape as a combo since a few patches ago.

 

Obviously, I'm not too impressed by this "news". What are your thoughts on the subject matter? please vote and share your opinion 

Update

Sub_Octavian, our old freind & WG spokesperson, has just posted a official explanation to the current situation. Because it's quite a lengthy post I think it's better to simply link it here.

Thread in question: 

tl:dr

the "bug" was fixed out of necessity from the perspective of software engineering;

WG staunchly believed that falt-out 20 second debuff is more intuitive for players

WG is considering implementation of the "bugged" as an actual feature in 0.8.2 or 0.8.3

 

 

Edit: Poll added as EU & NA server counterparts

Edit: WG offical statements on the subject matter

Please read the patch notes and watch the video above for intuitive understanding of the current fiasco

 

 

Edited by 9mm1n
linking to orignal patchnote for credibility; changed explaination to the "bug" for easier comprehension; polls added

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I see... normally when I'm firing main gun, detection range will expand, but shrink back immediately if there's no enemy spot me.

after this fix, my detection range will remain expand for 20 sec even there's no one spotting me huh.. 

it seem trivial but it may cause huge impact in some way...

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this is the reason why never bothered to upgrade my range in any dd(not even the modules). Lower range meant that you could stealth fire in open water if the target is in smoke or behind cover and the nearest enemy in your LoS is outside your firing range. This involved so much skill 😕 sadly, it will go away now. the change doesn't make any logical sense though.

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That was a feature for how long and now they patch it?

 

7 minutes ago, PGM991 said:

I see... normally when I'm firing main gun, detection range will expand, but shrink back immediately if there's no enemy spot me.

after this fix, my detection range will remain expand for 20 sec even there's no one spotting me huh.. 

it seem trivial but it may cause huge impact in some way...

Easier to spot kiting cruisers and BBs. As a cruiser player I don't think I will like it, even worse for BBs. Think about it, you fire a shot and your detection radius blooms for 20s, during that 20s your guns are reloading and if a smaller ship from the enemy team get in that range, you're 100% spotted.

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Urgh.

This has been a feature that almost all players knew about since god knows when.

This means either WG is trying to lie to the players by passing off balance changes as a bug fix, or they don't even play their own game. Not sure which is worse. And people wonder why I have little faith in WG.

And this a very big change. For example, you can't fire in smoke and stop firing just before the smoke runs out to leave undetected. You now have to give yourself a 20s window.

Edited by Thyaliad

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This is pure BS.

If a lightcruiser or a destroyer cant shoot from smoke or an island cover, what will they do? Ram? Was smoke always been a feature for hiding? NO. Then why? I mean seriously, as if having these many radar cruiser is not good enough. Now a DD cant even shoot when their radar's down. If no one has a line of sight we are supposed to get undetected, then how is this thing gets classified as a bug. If these update rolls out like as it is, they are for sure going to regret it.

Edited by _rayhan_
missed a word :p

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Well, lately, WG have been mostly "fixing"(read breaking) things that were perfectly fine... it started with changing the Division Window. Now it has become a common practice it seems :Smile_sceptic:

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5 minutes ago, _TAMAL_ said:

Well, lately, WG have been mostly "fixing"(read breaking) things that were perfectly fine... it started with changing the Division Window. Now it has become a common practice it seems :Smile_sceptic:

They are just BALANCING everything that are not BALANCED.

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7 minutes ago, _rayhan_ said:

They are just BALANCING everything that are not BALANCED.

So you are saying that the old Division window was unbalanced? In what regards I may ask?:Smile_veryhappy:

Anyway, I don't know how someone who has played this game for a long time can sincerely accept this change as BALANCING... 

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IMO

 

WG seem that their game are lean too heavily into stealth build across the board.

with this fix(?), concealment expert nerf, CV population expected to increase, spotting everything would become more easier etc...

I bet they want to make player rely less on stealth and work around it.

I expect BB citadel hit damage to be nerf soon to make CA become more brave in showing themselves for a fierce gun fight.

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1 minute ago, _TAMAL_ said:

So you are saying that the old Division window was unbalanced? In what regards I may ask?:Smile_veryhappy:

Anyway, I don't know how someone who has played this game for a long time can sincerely accept this change as BALANCING... 

Well, that is exactly my point. I am having fun with our current game play. So, why the heck they are ruining it with these changes that they are calling BALANCING.

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3 minutes ago, PGM991 said:

WG seem that their game are lean too heavily into stealth build across the board.

And unironically, the game was perfectly fine at that state, with some minor imbalances here and there... very few people built for countering carriers and most ships were build around surface combat(the way this game should be played in the first place). Carriers matches were rare(and those matches were typically one sided with one or both team basically waiting for the match to end asap). Clan Battles didn't have CV in them and large portion of the playerbase was happy. The game was perfectly fine.

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Just now, _rayhan_ said:

Well, that is exactly my point. I am having fun with our current game play. So, why the heck they are ruining it with these changes that they are calling BALANCING.

I seem to have misunderstood what you said before. I completely agree. We were in a good state with the game. Right now the game needs more new Maps and missing ship trees along with balancing of the existing ones. Not the BS that is being planned for release...

Hell, they are not even releasing Alaska:Smile-angry:

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I did read this last night. I came to the same concludion. Then I figured it’s couldnt mean what I thought it meant, cause it’s been a feature for so long.

So now, if I snapshot over an island, not detected, then a DD rounds the corner, outside concealment range but in gun range, it can spot me?

I think this is definitive proof that WG wants to destroy the concealment meta.

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It's not an issue, I even remember them announcing the change to the current system... If they announced it, how is it an issue or bug!?

I get them wanting to change the concealment meta, but it won't... It's the only means of disengaging (I'm including smoke here)

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8 hours ago, 9mm1n said:

In other words, firing your guns will result in your detection range to expand regardless whether an enemy is within your LOS. This is going to massively affect every single ship that has a maingun, especially for lightcruisers and destroyers, whose survivability relies on expert mastery of landscape and LoS control, just as the community grow familiar to using fire-concealment with landscape as a combo since a few patches ago.

I believe you are mistaken. This is about your detection circle instantly contracting when you break line of sight. You will, after the change, remain in "bloom" for a few more seconds after LOS is broken.

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17 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

I believe you are mistaken. This is about your detection circle instantly contracting when you break line of sight. You will, after the change, remain in "bloom" for a few more seconds after LOS is broken.

Now that I've read it again, I don't know what the note is about anymore, because it specifically mentioned "target".

So if you lock-on a ship and fire, that ship will see you regardless of range? :Smile_amazed:

Edited by Paladinum

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3 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Now that I've read it again, I don't know what the note is about anymore, because it specifically mentioned "target".

So if you lock-on a ship and fire, that ship will see you regardless of range? :Smile_amazed:

The note is very vague.

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15 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Now that I've read it again, I don't know what the note is about anymore, because it specifically mentioned "target".

So if you lock-on a ship and fire, that ship will see you regardless of range? :Smile_amazed:

If the enemy can't see you when you fire your guns, your detection radius does not bloom and you stay undetected.

If the enemy can see you (has line of sight, is within gun range / spotting range) when you fire your guns, your detection radius blooms out to the gun range and you are detected.

The bloom remains for about 20s iirc.

If you duck back into cover behind an island, for example, currently your bloom radius instantly contracts. You go undetected. If you pop out again and the enemy is out of your concealment radius, you stay in stealth.

After the change, when you duck back in cover, your detection radius stays at the maximum bloom for a while. If you pop out again, or the enemy moves into LOS, within that time you'll get detected even if the enemy is outside your normal concealment radius.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rina_Pon said:

I believe you are mistaken. This is about your detection circle instantly contracting when you break line of sight. You will, after the change, remain in "bloom" for a few more seconds after LOS is broken.

I apologize that my explanation to the "bug" is poorly worded. It was very late in the night when i first wrote it.

Nevertheless, I do believe I have a correct interpretation of what the said "bugs" and "change" means. 

I've since improved the OP to better explain the current and "fixed" mechanics.

 

Edited by 9mm1n

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I still remembered WG claimed that Radar won't work with Line of Sight(LOS).

It is actually the same with the radar story.  now they get ride of LOS for another subject.

 

From I can see so far for whatever change WG did. It really look like all they can do, is cut-and-paste a few hard-coded global variables, anything else is too complex or will not work.

 

 

Edited by tsuenwan

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