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MD047

CV rework with RPF on planes! Passive nerf to DDs.

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A questionable skill on CV planes to have RPF.

A DD could leave a zone and pop up on another location and still be good with hiding without smoking up, and the CV had to check around for a while to spot the DD again from where it was last spotted.

But with RPF in CV planes he will no longer needs to scout around the last seen area for a while to spot that poor DD. which mean CV can drop its payload fast and rearm quicker.

On the other hand DDs defence is Smoke and def AA(for those who have), Smoke consumable needs some time to be available. Some has very long cooldown. some have quick cooldown but Smoke is not gonna save you if the CV decides to drop a smoked up DD. For those DDs who have def AA they can shot down some, but after taking some rocket/ HE bomb from CV or hell fire from light cruisers the crippled AA will not be much to defend against planes. 

Upcoming CV rework gives CV the infinate planes which is another issue for all Ships in general as consumables are gonna run out but planes are not. RPF on planes means planes no longer needs to scout around to find DDs. BB's have respectable AA and with spotter planes BB's will be some challenging for CVs  to drop. CA and CLs have def AA and those who don't have that have spotters/ good AA mounts to deal with CVs. 

Guess what a CV will go for in early battle....... ship with lowest/ smallest AA.  And we all know DDs are most vulnerable against CV planes, even with Def AA which will run out at some point. 

 

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Here's an idea, why not just get rid of CV's altogether?

That will stop all the imba battles, all the stat padding wa..nkers with their cancer divs and anything else troublesome about cv's.

Just give them back their credits dubs and be done with it.

At the very least dont allow CV divs anymore and the power abuse the entails.

As to your post, DD dfaa isnt massively effective like Mino or DM AA so more than likely you will have planes left over to spot you after you leave smoke.

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The biggest issue CVs have is speed.

Planes can race across map, outflank and attack from any direction.

Against a DD, which, even with DFAA, planes will have little trouble tracking down the lightly armored ship.

Having RPF on planes does sound a bit game breaking. Fine on everything else as everything else is slower surface ship.

If planes get RPF, then at least CVs should be detected by it.

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3 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

The biggest issue CVs have is speed.

Planes can race across map, outflank and attack from any direction.

Against a DD, which, even with DFAA, planes will have little trouble tracking down the lightly armored ship.

Having RPF on planes does sound a bit game breaking. Fine on everything else as everything else is slower surface ship.

If planes get RPF, then at least CVs should be detected by it.

Not ending planes are ok as long as they suffer some penalty over time for careless throw, but RPF, thats a issue for sure. 
Also you reminded me about speed, I should have mentioned it in the post. CV's can do whatever they like with it.

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with this, its even more so that DD will not will not want to leave vicinity of the fleet to go out front to spot and scout, cause there are Radar, there are Hydro, there are enemy DD and now there are new Aerial threat  ... if CV is going to have their plane this way then WG should made it so that if ever the plane venture into AA range then they need to suffer , right now the RNG simply is too off for AA .. limitless supply of planes just mean CV can keep throwing wave after wave onto enemies without  any REAL price to pay

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10 hours ago, Mechfori said:

with this, its even more so that DD will not will not want to leave vicinity of the fleet to go out front to spot and scout, cause there are Radar, there are Hydro, there are enemy DD and now there are new Aerial threat  ... if CV is going to have their plane this way then WG should made it so that if ever the plane venture into AA range then they need to suffer , right now the RNG simply is too off for AA .. limitless supply of planes just mean CV can keep throwing wave after wave onto enemies without  any REAL price to pay

Thats what I'm worried about. Hopefully WG will address these issues after observeing the new CV gameplay on live server.

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don't worry. the skill point is not enough for pick RPF.
and good CV captain know where  DD are.

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1 hour ago, RX83 said:

don't worry. the skill point is not enough for pick RPF.
and good CV captain know where  DD are.

Knowing where the DDs are and exactly knowing where they are is bit different, you'll agree I assume.

And Both players have to have good skills to counter each other, but not if one had a tool that tells them where to go exactly. Isn't it little bit on the CV player sided!

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There’s a whole lot of people that think WG have NFI what they’re doing. Y’all need to just chill TF out and see what comes before getting all hysterical. 

If it’s broke, they’ll fix it. It’s in their best interests.

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22 hours ago, Bex_o7 said:

There’s a whole lot of people that think WG have NFI what they’re doing. Y’all need to just chill TF out and see what comes before getting all hysterical. 

If it’s broke, they’ll fix it. It’s in their best interests.

Exactly this.

Stop buying into the mass hysteria everybody is chugging into their systems and wait until it hits live and you've tried it out yourself before you make conclusions.

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OK , but you know what I think the guy miss a point ... that whole team is almost entirely AA build .. and there is no addressing what a normal DD, CA, Cl, or BB build who are not into AA can or cannot do solo or in a group. Know it if it would require everyone and every ship to build AA to even able to actually function AA then AA is not properly balanced. AA should work even base for all ships though it should not be over powering but it should be bale to fend off planes, just as guns and torps are used when defensively against other ships, one do not need any particular build to utilize the guns and torps to act as defensive counter fire .. why should the AA require that. And what about a group of ships or a solo one who are out there who are not AA build for a start or having only a single AA build in the group how would it fare ... The PTS sometime skewed too much as so many are geared to test only 1 feature and flooded the game wit such 

 

 

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On 1/25/2019 at 6:30 AM, Mechfori said:

OK , but you know what I think the guy miss a point ... that whole team is almost entirely AA build .. and there is no addressing what a normal DD, CA, Cl, or BB build who are not into AA can or cannot do solo or in a group. Know it if it would require everyone and every ship to build AA to even able to actually function AA then AA is not properly balanced. AA should work even base for all ships though it should not be over powering but it should be bale to fend off planes, just as guns and torps are used when defensively against other ships, one do not need any particular build to utilize the guns and torps to act as defensive counter fire .. why should the AA require that. And what about a group of ships or a solo one who are out there who are not AA build for a start or having only a single AA build in the group how would it fare ... The PTS sometime skewed too much as so many are geared to test only 1 feature and flooded the game wit such 

 

 

I agree with you. It should be baked in, like Concelment. Everyone use it regardless. Why not blend those 1 or 2 must have skills. 

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On 1/25/2019 at 9:30 AM, Mechfori said:

OK , but you know what I think the guy miss a point ... that whole team is almost entirely AA build .. and there is no addressing what a normal DD, CA, Cl, or BB build who are not into AA can or cannot do solo or in a group. Know it if it would require everyone and every ship to build AA to even able to actually function AA then AA is not properly balanced. AA should work even base for all ships though it should not be over powering but it should be bale to fend off planes, just as guns and torps are used when defensively against other ships, one do not need any particular build to utilize the guns and torps to act as defensive counter fire .. why should the AA require that. And what about a group of ships or a solo one who are out there who are not AA build for a start or having only a single AA build in the group how would it fare ... The PTS sometime skewed too much as so many are geared to test only 1 feature and flooded the game wit such 

 

 

Imo the problem lies in that there are too many skills and upgrades affecting AA. In other words there is too big a gap between those who picked AA skills and upgrades and those who didn't. Couple that with ships that have naturally strong AA and those that do not, it is easy to why AA is such a balancing nightmare. How do you balance a Shimakaze with 0 AA skills and upgrades versus a full AA-specced Wooster?

Some of these AA skills should have been just straight up removed or combined with another skill, same with upgrades. Then WG can work towards balancing AA. Ships with poor AA can get their AA buffed while those with ridiculously strong AA can be toned down.

AA discrepancy is one of the factors plaguing the current RTS CV gameplay, and it is still not fixed in the rework. This is partly why I disagree with the rework - because it doesn't really fix most of the issues.

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Well, I dont think you need Radio Location at all. Those planes move at 150+ knts and can go anywhere in the map with a blink of an eye. The CV rework will make concealment based gameplay obsolete, basically breaking the "stable" version of the game we have now.

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17 hours ago, _TAMAL_ said:

Well, I dont think you need Radio Location at all. Those planes move at 150+ knts and can go anywhere in the map with a blink of an eye. The CV rework will make concealment based gameplay obsolete, basically breaking the "stable" version of the game we have now.

 

Its already bad, that as primary DD and Cl player I keep getting guns ( who normally would only sit way back ) to keep telling light force to go venture out and scout, spot but yet do not realize that they simply cannot support when they just stay behind and wait for situations to clear up .. ad with this, its further diminishing the part what light force can do. WG in their changes had been too oriented towards BB and CA big guns and now CV to the point that they had left the game totally impossible to play light force in any effective or even meaningful measure. This is not help by guns and CV who are now more into damage farming than actually supporting the ones up front .. so in the end the light force had ever reason not to go venture out. Basically when they made it so that concealment cannot conceal then they had break the game play alright.

Its already in game right now that DD are so reluctant to venture out that its crating friction in and among team members in a game and I can understand the big guns frustration when the cannot have a clear picture of the other side, but I also lament their inability to support and their total damage farming mentality when and if enemy show up instead of thinking about saving their teammate on the front ( who usually had to risk taking loads of damage to actually able to scout and spot ). Light force up front are fast becoming just fire bait for the big guns and more ad more the big guns simply ignore and even intentionally stay back so they can long range fire when light force is just expandable to them

And with CV rework this might prove yet another .. cause as the saying goes ... " tell CV to send plane , I am not ailing into Radar range " .. can we really blame the light force to just trying their best to survive. I think with all this its gong to create even more fractured game play. Its part WG's lousy game balance , its part how the game score , and its very much part of how players act and react to these. Team play is always better but when most of the time when Guns will only mind their own ( damage farming and not up front getting HE spammed ) then pretty muc team play is no where to be found as the needed support to the up front is non existent .. even worse I am seeing most of the cruisers these days doing the same ting. Some time one had to wonder if they are even in gun range to engage. Its yet more reason why the light force will not venture out , will not care about using that concealment, cause this no longer work and no longer can save them from instantly being killed ( now with Radar, Hydro, Aerial spotting and enemy DD also ) and as far as covering and support fire .. sorry the teams guns are all way back and even if the want to they cannot support in any practical measure from that far. 

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9 hours ago, Mechfori said:

 

Its already bad, that as primary DD and Cl player I keep getting guns ( who normally would only sit way back ) to keep telling light force to go venture out and scout, spot but yet do not realize that they simply cannot support when they just stay behind and wait for situations to clear up .. ad with this, its further diminishing the part what light force can do. WG in their changes had been too oriented towards BB and CA big guns and now CV to the point that they had left the game totally impossible to play light force in any effective or even meaningful measure. This is not help by guns and CV who are now more into damage farming than actually supporting the ones up front .. so in the end the light force had ever reason not to go venture out. Basically when they made it so that concealment cannot conceal then they had break the game play alright.

Its already in game right now that DD are so reluctant to venture out that its crating friction in and among team members in a game and I can understand the big guns frustration when the cannot have a clear picture of the other side, but I also lament their inability to support and their total damage farming mentality when and if enemy show up instead of thinking about saving their teammate on the front ( who usually had to risk taking loads of damage to actually able to scout and spot ). Light force up front are fast becoming just fire bait for the big guns and more ad more the big guns simply ignore and even intentionally stay back so they can long range fire when light force is just expandable to them

 

The issue is in both sides tbh. When you play a dd, 80% of the time you'll find that even if you contest cap and spot enemies to shoot at, bbs and cruisers camp far behind. Whereas, when you'll play bb or cruiser and stay close to the cap to provide support, you'll find out that the dd in your spawn is trying to reach enemy flank to get some easy kills while neglecting the objective as a whole. 

The point here is that CV rework will not solve this issue. Instead, it will alleviate it. Because of the insane spotting ability, the light forces will play way more passively. As a result, the big hitters will camp ever further back. 

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Try looking at the new Commander skill lineup, and look at all the skill choices that's for CVs. 

You'll immediately see, just like for surface ships, that taking RPF is not something "everybody will take" that will "end DD gameplay". 

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43 minutes ago, Ryuuoh_DeltaPlus said:

Try looking at the new Commander skill lineup, and look at all the skill choices that's for CVs. 

You'll immediately see, just like for surface ships, that taking RPF is not something "everybody will take" that will "end DD gameplay". 

You mean that there are enough good skills for CVs that they will likely choose them over RPF?

Probably using the logic "I move 150 knts anyway, why do I need this skill when there are other much more useful ones?"

That said, you'll probably still see the occasional annoying competitive guy who uses it in clan battles and ranked simply so he can completely nullify the DD.

Edited by Grygus_Triss

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30 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

You mean that there are enough good skills for CVs that they will likely choose them over RPF?

Probably using the logic "I move 150 knts anyway, why do I need this skill when there are other much more useful ones?"

That said, you'll probably still see the occasional annoying competitive guy who uses it in clan battles and ranked simply so he can completely nullify the DD.

Ranked and clan battle will have some impact of course, also you will see some players in random just having fun.

At low tier its gonna be a pain in the **s because of little AA and lack of def AAs of those low tier ships.  

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So far the Q remain .. can a ship with base AA or minimal investment in AA skill at least deter aerial attack , right now its like AA is basically useless, you might do damage but yo are not shooting down planes and CV can keep pounding on yo no matter what ... and the CV rework does not seems to fare better ..all I see is AA build can be effective; OK so that's the answer so what about non AA build .. it should not be the case where non AA build will not be able to defend itself especially when in a group and now this is questionable as AFT will no longer give the range and the sector system take away  an ships ability to single target the most dangerous incoming ( usually the torp plane ). Its not enough that base AA onl deal damage it should be at least able to shoot down planes and AA build sips should be able to not only shoot them down but wipe a squadron out

 

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1 hour ago, Mechfori said:

So far the Q remain .. can a ship with base AA or minimal investment in AA skill at least deter aerial attack , right now its like AA is basically useless, you might do damage but yo are not shooting down planes and CV can keep pounding on yo no matter what ... and the CV rework does not seems to fare better ..all I see is AA build can be effective; OK so that's the answer so what about non AA build .. it should not be the case where non AA build will not be able to defend itself especially when in a group and now this is questionable as AFT will no longer give the range and the sector system take away  an ships ability to single target the most dangerous incoming ( usually the torp plane ). Its not enough that base AA onl deal damage it should be at least able to shoot down planes and AA build sips should be able to not only shoot them down but wipe a squadron out

 

Just wait for it, My fear is about more camping and refusing to support DDs in general. And that poor bugger will suffer the most.

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1 hour ago, MD047 said:

Just wait for it, My fear is about more camping and refusing to support DDs in general. And that poor bugger will suffer the most.

And that in turn encourage DD to not to do anything , not to go up front to do its duty , and not to leave vicinity of a group, which further fracture the game play and further aggravate tension between Guns player and light force player   ( Guns always want light force to do vanguard and light force will only want to focus on surviving , can;t blame them for that both ) , at least as a primary DD player if and when this CV rework come into play ( and the proposed Radar buff / torpedo nerf ) I am going to disregard all request for me to go forth unless a group of guns are pushing together. My life on a DD is no more and no less valuable than a BB or CA or the CV. Its already bad now and its looking even worse down the road, so it kind of force DD player to not to play DD duties   

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20 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

And that in turn encourage DD to not to do anything , not to go up front to do its duty , and not to leave vicinity of a group, which further fracture the game play and further aggravate tension between Guns player and light force player   ( Guns always want light force to do vanguard and light force will only want to focus on surviving , can;t blame them for that both ) , at least as a primary DD player if and when this CV rework come into play ( and the proposed Radar buff / torpedo nerf ) I am going to disregard all request for me to go forth unless a group of guns are pushing together. My life on a DD is no more and no less valuable than a BB or CA or the CV. Its already bad now and its looking even worse down the road, so it kind of force DD player to not to play DD duties   

Game will change mate. 0.8.0 is just a test but its conducting in live server and covering vast area as well.

After collecting feedbacks and observing live server gamplay WG will change some as usual. 0.8.1/0.8.2 maybe later on. 

 

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